[MANGA] Bleach Chapter 354 Discussion

[ShinAkuma135]

^^great are we going to be going into the negatives now???...which would mean that the TRUE espada vasto lordes would be up next. this would make the 0 of yammy the weakest (again), stark the second to last weakest...and so on. This would mean the currect espada are foot soldiers...which would mean soul society might as well give up. Espada -10 FTW!!!

[ILikeSquiReLz]

he could be the strongest. not the most powerful. 2 different things.

eyeballs had the fastest sonido of all the espada, didn't make him 1 tho.

[Hitsugaya_Toushiro]

lol
i made this

[Frailty]

ok Yammy is 0
others say KT has gone nuts
but I say this, only he gets nuts when
afro dude becomes the strongest shinigami with imba bankai powers and is secretly a vizard :]

[LightningZERO]

I wonder what's next after the negative numbers? Alphabetical order perhaps?

[ShinAkuma135]

Originally Posted by LightningZERO

I wonder what's next after the negative numbers? Alphabetical order perhaps?

lol yea....26 more. Espada Z....yea if that happens it will turn into a broken anime like dbz. Espada Z= Broly...Legendary form

[boomerangnizorro]

maybe yammy's original number was actually written in binary? so 10 actually means 2? but that still doesn't make him the strongest....hmm....

[SimplyAJ]

Okay, so this whole "negative numbers" thing is already old, as this seems to have turned into less of a discussion as to how people think this is possible, and more of a "let's just complain about Kubo's writing for 3 pages and not talk about anything regarding what actually went on, or any sort of real speculation". Not meaning to sound so cold, but still. It's a little ridiciulous.

First off. Assuming what he says is true about the Espada being 0-9, that doesn't mean "OH HO THEN IF THERE IS A STRONGER ONE THEN THEY WOULD BE NEGATIVE", no it means that if there ever is someone who IS stronger and becomes an Espada, they would be 0, bumping everyone else down, until the person who is the "weakest" is left as a Privaron Espada. That seems to be how their system of power works.

Now, while it does seem dumb for him to say "who said the Espada are 1-10? It's 0-9" when his number is clearly marked "10" at the start. Meaning that be common knowledge if there are 10 Espada, the first one starting as "one" and the last as "10" then it's marked 1-10. Granted, you could give him the benefit of the doubt and say that this hasn't actually been SAID it's just an assumption made by the audience.

Yes. It's a plot twist. Is it what people wanted? Probably not. BUT, does it "break the rules" of typical stereotypes? Definitely. I mean c'mon, how often (and this was said in an earlier post, I just forget by whom) is the big bruiser ever really a STRONG threat? They never are. They tend to just push around the weaker characters until someone truly strong comes along and stomps all over'em. This is a nice change. Or do you want this to just be like every other typical Shonen? Granted, while a lot of things ARE typical shonen, this sort of twist, is not.

The argument that he gets his ass kicked by people and stomped all over and what not ... First off, again, let's look at some key items here. It's been hinted at now that he as "fully recovered", and has also dramatically grown in size. If that's the case, then the people who kicked him around (Kisuke and co) didn't even fight the "real" Yammy. Just a weak nearly powerless version of him.

Hell let's look at Isshin. We're led to believe he's this annoying weak father that always tackles Ichigo and has nothing else going for him. He gets the shit kicked out of him by Ichigo all the time. But when he shows up with his powers back, he's suddenly a bad ass. Seems pretty similar, eh? Getting his powers back. Fully recovered. Either way.

People are just upset because the characters that were made to have the stereotypical fanbase might not be the strongest or the best. Heaven forbid that some generic ugly brute is actually top dog, instead of the typical "My soul is a dark abyss, as I bleed ashes of another life into the dark depths of a tattered dream" emo character or your "Constantly-Over-Done-Hey-Look-At-Me-I'm-Laid-Back-But-That-Makes-Me-Strong" Character. Don't get me wrong, I like Stark, but it seems that people are just whining because he might not be as powerful as he first seemed.

Or maybe he is. We don't KNOW yet, we don't know what kind of things the other Espada have up their sleaves. But it'd be nice to actually read a discussion on the topic, as opposed to a constant storm of "KUBO IS TERRIBLE, THIS IS AWFUL. I QUIT. I AM BOYCOTTING THIS. YAMMY IS A BIG STUPID." posts.

Yeah. Rant. Hi.

[kakakka]

The whole situation of Yammy being 0 number is weird, I admit. But I have never seen him do a release in the manga (please tell me what chapter I missed). If his power release makes him a powerful opponent, I don't see any problems with it. Maybe that's why he became an espada; because his release is the most powerful/unusual of the bunch.

[ShinAkuma135]

Originally Posted by SimplyAJ

Okay, so this whole "negative numbers" thing is already old, as this seems to have turned into less of a discussion as to how people think this is possible, and more of a "let's just complain about Kubo's writing for 3 pages and not talk about anything regarding what actually went on, or any sort of real speculation". Not meaning to sound so cold, but still. It's a little ridiciulous.

First off. Assuming what he says is true about the Espada being 0-9, that doesn't mean "OH HO THEN IF THERE IS A STRONGER ONE THEN THEY WOULD BE NEGATIVE", no it means that if there ever is someone who IS stronger and becomes an Espada, they would be 0, bumping everyone else down, until the person who is the "weakest" is left as a Privaron Espada. That seems to be how their system of power works.

Now, while it does seem dumb for him to say "who said the Espada are 1-10? It's 0-9" when his number is clearly marked "10" at the start. Meaning that be common knowledge if there are 10 Espada, the first one starting as "one" and the last as "10" then it's marked 1-10. Granted, you could give him the benefit of the doubt and say that this hasn't actually been SAID it's just an assumption made by the audience.

Yes. It's a plot twist. Is it what people wanted? Probably not. BUT, does it "break the rules" of typical stereotypes? Definitely. I mean c'mon, how often (and this was said in an earlier post, I just forget by whom) is the big bruiser ever really a STRONG threat? They never are. They tend to just push around the weaker characters until someone truly strong comes along and stomps all over'em. This is a nice change. Or do you want this to just be like every other typical Shonen? Granted, while a lot of things ARE typical shonen, this sort of twist, is not.

The argument that he gets his ass kicked by people and stomped all over and what not ... First off, again, let's look at some key items here. It's been hinted at now that he as "fully recovered", and has also dramatically grown in size. If that's the case, then the people who kicked him around (Kisuke and co) didn't even fight the "real" Yammy. Just a weak nearly powerless version of him.

Hell let's look at Isshin. We're led to believe he's this annoying weak father that always tackles Ichigo and has nothing else going for him. He gets the shit kicked out of him by Ichigo all the time. But when he shows up with his powers back, he's suddenly a bad ass. Seems pretty similar, eh? Getting his powers back. Fully recovered. Either way.

People are just upset because the characters that were made to have the stereotypical fanbase might not be the strongest or the best. Heaven forbid that some generic ugly brute is actually top dog, instead of the typical "My soul is a dark abyss, as I bleed ashes of another life into the dark depths of a tattered dream" emo character or your "Constantly-Over-Done-Hey-Look-At-Me-I'm-Laid-Back-But-That-Makes-Me-Strong" Character. Don't get me wrong, I like Stark, but it seems that people are just whining because he might not be as powerful as he first seemed.

Or maybe he is. We don't KNOW yet, we don't know what kind of things the other Espada have up their sleaves. But it'd be nice to actually read a discussion on the topic, as opposed to a constant storm of "KUBO IS TERRIBLE, THIS IS AWFUL. I QUIT. I AM BOYCOTTING THIS. YAMMY IS A BIG STUPID." posts.

Yeah. Rant. Hi.

the 'negative thing' just began though...how's it getting old?. and you do realize that most are being sarcastic about it right (i am anyways)? i mean i don't REALLY think there's an espada -10 or espada z...or do i???

and even though yammy got his butt kicked from the others in his 'weak' state...you gotta realize that the people weren't exactly bothering to fight seriously either. urahara was joking around most of the time.

privaron espada are not artificially created as are the current espada. thats why aizen disposed of them..sort of. There is no reason for the numbering to stop at '0' either...considering how things go completely haywire in TK's world...for all we know it could happen.

[SimplyAJ]

I realize it's sarcasm, yeah, but ... Haha, there's a difference between good, witty sarcasm, and ... immediately overused sarcasm that everyone conforms to. Granted, I'm also picky on it. But that's not here nor there.

And yeah, the Privaron aren't artificially created, but at the same time, if one of them was still just as strong as one of the current Espada, you can bet they'd still BE Espada. It wasn't because they weren't created by Aizen as to why he didn't use them. He just didn't think they were as strong as the ones he created, so he demoted them. If he created more strong ones, he'd probably demote current Espada (granted, half are dead, but still).

Isshin got his ass handed to him by Ichigo when they were just "playing" too. It's not like he went all out on his father. Yeah, it's not EXACT, but the point still stands.

[ShinAkuma135]

Originally Posted by SimplyAJ

I realize it's sarcasm, yeah, but ... Haha, there's a difference between good, witty sarcasm, and ... immediately overused sarcasm that everyone conforms to. Granted, I'm also picky on it. But that's not here nor there.

And yeah, the Privaron aren't artificially created, but at the same time, if one of them was still just as strong as one of the current Espada, you can bet they'd still BE Espada. It wasn't because they weren't created by Aizen as to why he didn't use them. He just didn't think they were as strong as the ones he created, so he demoted them. If he created more strong ones, he'd probably demote current Espada (granted, half are dead, but still).

Isshin got his ass handed to him by Ichigo when they were just "playing" too. It's not like he went all out on his father. Yeah, it's not EXACT, but the point still stands.

isshin vs ichigo...lol....yea i get what you're saying. bleach is just too unpredictable...who would've thunk the first appearing espada would also be the strongest?

[MihawkXGP]

I was starting to wonder where the latest spoiler was until i actually checked this topic, It didn't occur to me this topic got so many replies this fast.

I've been laughing non-stop for about a good 20 mins in disbelief at what I've read. Hopefully there is a logical explanation in the Full Chapter or next one.

[Calca]

I personally think it's a psychological technique.

[Cub-Sama]

New theory: Aizen only put that 0 there to fool his opponents into thinking Yammy was the strongest they could get and to make Yammy feel good due to his self esteem issues. But it really turns out Stark could bitch slap Gin, Aizen and Tosen at the same time but doesn't due to respect/laziness

[Vinak]

I think the one (digit) simply got lost in one of Yammy's fat folds.

[Thewanderer]

So basically all this Yami hate is because no one here(well, almost no one) can picture him being strong? Is it THAT so hard to believe that he has a strong mode and a weak mode?

I honestly think that all this unreasonable hatred toward Yami is unnecessary. And IMO... it's kinda scary. I mean just because everyone had the thought in mind that he's a weakling nobody, when you find out that he's actually not that pathetic, you rage and hate him more? No offense to anyone, but I seriously hope no one treats real people this way... D=

[Cub-Sama]

Originally Posted by Thewanderer

So basically all this Yami hate is because no one here(well, almost no one) can picture him being strong? Is it THAT so hard to believe that he has a strong mode and a weak mode?

I honestly think that all this unreasonable hatred toward Yami is unnecessary. And IMO... it's kinda scary. I mean just because everyone had the thought in mind that he's a weakling nobody, when you find out that he's actually not that pathetic, you rage and hate him more? No offense to anyone, but I seriously hope no one treats real people this way... D=

It's not because of any of that, it's because he is an idiot, ugly and if he is the strongest he is just furthering the whole concept of the big, greedy, ugly idiot being the strongest (Bowser, Eggman etc...)

[Vinak]

I don't entirely mind too much since Bleach is more of a fall back manga for me while I wait for Claymore

I just don't like obvious inconsistency. the guy appears to have something of a temper yet doesn't mind when he gets his arm cut off by ichigo and then mocked by the rest of the Espada.

plus his powerup is too extreme. nobody else has undergone such an extreme powerup from simply going bankai or by releasing the sword except for Yammy. I wouldn't even say Ichigo has had such an extreme level of transformation. it would be like him going from his noobie self in chapter one directly to bankai.

I just like to poke fun at things too. lighten up the mood a little. guess I just have a bad sense of humor

[Kafriel]

Originally Posted by Thewanderer

So basically all this Yami hate is because no one here(well, almost no one) can picture him being strong? Is it THAT so hard to believe that he has a strong mode and a weak mode?

I honestly think that all this unreasonable hatred toward Yami is unnecessary. And IMO... it's kinda scary. I mean just because everyone had the thought in mind that he's a weakling nobody, when you find out that he's actually not that pathetic, you rage and hate him more? No offense to anyone, but I seriously hope no one treats real people this way... D=

Having strong and weak forms is ok, but going from weakest to strongest MUST have a price, he can't just say release and make it happen, it's way too unfair. He also lacks any kind of character, at least Ulquiorra had a certain role in the manga while Yammi was his sidekick, existing only to get beaten up and show other people's power-ups. Making him this strong is just pointless.