Episode 10 discussion

[Grifis]

Originally Posted by Mentar

Feeling the need to haughtily talk down to people, Grifis? Again? Somehow I sense a pattern ...

----I thought it'll be more dramatic that way not mentioning fun. I'm in the mood.

Akane has obviously cared for her comatose sister for 3 years. Like with Mitsuki before I guess you have no clue what that really means. This kind of stuff can scar or even break adults, and she was a kid. She's lost not only her sister to the coma but a major part of her own life, too. If she did develop a soft spot for Takayuki (things like these happen, you know), that didn't make things easier. She saw her own idol which she looked up to take away Takayuki from her sister and herself. In the end, caring for Haruka fell on her shoulders.

And you have the gall to call her "spoiled"? Spoiled with what, hm? Do you even know what this word means?

You should become a preacher. Or, even better, a politician.

-----Maybe because I came from an Asian country and was brought up in a strict environment where I basically had to deal with my 'suffering' and solved it myself in my proper manner, I have no tolerance for this kind of little emotional outburst or even considered these 'shattering' problems. Maybe also because I could take much more than any of these kids could in a much younger age since I was brought up that way. Yes they're spoiled because they've been living a life without hardship and then all of a sudden tragic happened then they acted like they were the only ones suffering without trying hard to solve it or cope with it. I don't mean to preach. I grew up from old traditional culture that don't really act too soft on people who think they're the only ones with major problems in life. Gotta think for other people too. That's just my feelings about it. I'm sure many disagree but that's ok 'cause we all came from difference backgrounds.

Grifis

[Overzoul]

Originally Posted by Grifis

I grew up from old traditional culture that don't really act too soft on people who think they're the only ones with major problems in life. Gotta think for other people too.
Grifis

Agree!!! It is absolutely stupid to said kid can do what they like because they are kid. Kid can shot people or cause damage to other and can get away from it because they are kid is absolutely Bulls**t!!!!!!!

Back in old day. 18 mean life on your own plus family to carry. Today 13 in US could shot a person and get away when he/she grown up. That just pure wrong. So if Akane situation happen in real life? then she should take FULL responsiblity

[Shift_]

Originally Posted by vio5555

By the way, the Supreme Court elected President Bush to power, the people elected Al Gore.

Only in the USA where democracy doesn't mean the majority rules
Only in the USA where federal election day last more than one day

Yea I know the people voted Gore in, and I was acctually happy, then after this and that bush got into power and I was left thinking "WTF"

[TheBlueOne]

Originally Posted by kj1980

Well...let me give you a counter question. What is the POV for, let's say...American national health care issues by Americans?

While this isn't exactly what your asking, as someone who suffered for 12 years under an HMO plan that refused to refer me to an asthma and allergy specialist, I might have some insight on this. I was put on somewhere from 25-50 different antihistamines by a general practitioner. His hands were tied by the HMO, which was all we could afford. He was just playing his part; he was only doing his job. My parents went to the HMO office and begged with a beauracrat to tell the doctor to refer me to a specialist. The clerk was only doing her job when they turned us down.

My parents finally were able to get off their HMO after several years (it was mostly a money issue), got on a more flexible plan put forth by my mother's new employer, which allowed me to see an allergist who put me on antigen injection therapy that day. Within a month of biweekly shots, I could *breath*. For the first time in my life I wasn't suffering with severe resporitory problems.

This ongoing incident from my childhood was one of my primary reasons for believing that "95% of the misery in this world is caused by people just doing their jobs."

Originally Posted by kj1980

Everyone has a part, everyone is blind, everyone would rather blame on something else. Another of modern societies' illnesses...introduced to Japan by the West.

My initial reaction is to call bullshit. Wouldn't a culture rooted in group harmony and social conformity have more problems of not being able to see the individual's part in the whole? To "see the forest, but not the trees?" Regardless of cause, it's imposible to miss the irony of exclusivly blaming another culture when you argue that everybody is part of the problem, and that problems are complex and have more then one cause. (Which is a point I agree fullheartedly with you on.)

That being said, from a calmer position, you have a point in pointing out that this exists in both of our countries, though I think it is for very different sets of reasons.
Blaming the west is quite a bit of a stretch. Could you elaborate on what you mean? I really don't want to misconstrue what your arguing and reduce myself to burning straw men! Are you saying that Western culture wholesalely exported the concept of blaming others and not taking personal responsibility? Perhaps your saying that some interaction between the West's individualistic ideals and classic Japanese vertical society is causing this?

And finally (and flippantly. I'm not so heartless that I mean the following seriously!!!), I've wanted to say this all day since I read:

Originally Posted by kj1980

His future has suddenly gone off the railtracks - and in a society where "being fired" is looked - what choice does the elite have other than to commit suicide? Who is going to pay the mortage, his/her child's tuitions and education fees, whose going to feed the family?

Who is going to pay JR when they try to extract money from the family when that saleryman puts his life (literally) on the railtracks?

It's a joke folks, I don't mean it! Don't kill me! /me runs.

(On a serious note, I can't understand the logic of the legal argument that says that a railway can extract money from a suicide victims' family.)

[vio5555]

Originally Posted by TheBlueOne

It's a joke folks, I don't mean it! Don't kill me! /me runs.

You can run but you can't hide!
*finds TheBlueOne hiding near some abandoned railtracks*
Prepare to DIE!!!!!!!
*grabs Shift_'s hang gun that he used to kill the KGNE cast*
*shoots TheBlueOne*
There now everyone should be happy .

[Shift_]

That wasn't nice, I hope you didn't get blood all over my gun

PS you can hide bodies real well in a landfill, they already smell so people won't even find them, and when they do, you'll be long gone

[Wandering_Youth]

Back on topic...

After reading all the posts I don't know what to think anymore. I'll just post my opinons without going too deep. I just hope this anime ends soon because it is becoming all drama and all the characters seem like they're ready for suicide. I started out liking Haruka then Mitsuki, but now I really don't like either. Mistuki is drunk and depressed and possibly slept with Shinji...Haruka started to hate Takayuki and it looks like she's gone into another coma...Takayuki looks like he's going to lose his mind again...Akane made her sister go into a coma. I'm all for the twisted ending because at this point, imo, any ending with Takayuki with any of the 3 girls will be bad.

[futago]

This sounds a bit cruel and rude, but i hope Haruka just die instead of going into a coma and then wakes up. I think that's what Akane is implying, things will be easier for everyone, but at the same time, we won have 12 episodes of KGNE, hmm, what a dilemma... And no offense to Haruka's fans. Lastly, just wanna say, Akane banzai!!

[kj1980]

My initial reaction is to call bullshit. Wouldn't a culture rooted in group harmony and social conformity have more problems of not being able to see the individual's part in the whole? To "see the forest, but not the trees?" Regardless of cause, it's imposible to miss the irony of exclusivly blaming another culture when you argue that everybody is part of the problem, and that problems are complex and have more then one cause. (Which is a point I agree fullheartedly with you on.)

Actually, it's the other way around. There is no individuality, because it's run by the whole. It's a society where "you do not exist as an individual, you exist as a part of a group, without the group, you do not exist." Hence, if everyone was in that group and if everyone had some part in it, and if one person get fired for doing something that everyone was doing, that person gets mad. "Why me? I spent all my life for this company...all this time I was part of a group, but now they single handedly treat me as an individual at end by singling me out?"

That being said, from a calmer position, you have a point in pointing out that this exists in both of our countries, though I think it is for very different sets of reasons.
Blaming the west is quite a bit of a stretch. Could you elaborate on what you mean? I really don't want to misconstrue what your arguing and reduce myself to burning straw men! Are you saying that Western culture wholesalely exported the concept of blaming others and not taking personal responsibility? Perhaps your saying that some interaction between the West's individualistic ideals and classic Japanese vertical society is causing this?

No, what I am construing is that modern society is, by all means, created by the West. Like all societies, each of them have imperfections. There is no "perfect society." There is no "utopia." Even our Japanese traditional society has its own flaws - we had a meaningless caste system in which the lowest caste, the merchants, actually had more power than the noble aristocracy (the samurai). And, modern society, too has its flaws. That modern society, created by the Western civilization was introduced to Japan in the mid 19th century. Sure, its great we became an economical powerhouse, but at what cost? It's great that the Meiji Government outlawed the caste system and freedom of speech, right to vote, and the right to assemble were instituted. Hey, democracy is great. But at what cost? We've lost something, that something that cannot be regained, due to Western civilization. I cannot fully describe what we've lost...it's the sense of being...hmm...it's kind of like the feeling where you can't find real remote control for the TV and all you have is a universal remote (bad example I know, it's the best I can describe). I've never said anything about Western society bringing in ideas of blaming others and the like - such an emotional concept existed for ages. I'm trying to describe that Western society - with all its glory and glamor, with all its promise of a better life - had created many social problems that had not existed in pre-modern times. And, as we have gone through a rapid pace of "modernizing," we have problems of the old AND the problems of the new as well. We are very tired, but unfortunately, we cannot slow down.

Who is going to pay JR when they try to extract money from the family when that saleryman puts his life (literally) on the railtracks?

You'll actually be surprised that JR actually has an insurance for this. A lot of people commit suicide by jumping off the train station as the train is coming to the station (don't remind me - I actually did see a woman in her late 30s on the opposite station jump out as the Soubu Line was coming in - and you do not want to see what happens to a human body as it makes contact with a train coming in at 120 km/hr). JR has a special government insurance in instances like these, as they have to stop the rail for at least several hours so that the infamous "JR 3rd Department" (the division of JR that picks up garbage on the tracks - which lately has been nick-named the "corpse collector" due to te amount of suicides) can clean the mess, while the trains are delayed. For every minute the JR line has to stop due to a suicide, JR loses a huge wad of cash. A number so huge that they need governmental insurance. So in effect, for every person that commits suicide by jumping off the tracks, we - the taxpayers pay for the mess.

[NinjaServ]

Originally Posted by vio5555

By the way, the Supreme Court elected President Bush to power, the people elected Al Gore.

I'm not saying Bush is the best president in the world, but I do have to say, we would be MORE FUCKED UP than we arleady are if Gore was elected....*shudders at thought of Gore big President*....we would be in MUCH worse shape.....

[TheBlueOne]

Originally Posted by kj1980

You'll actually be surprised that JR actually has an insurance for this. A lot of people commit suicide by jumping off the train station as the train is coming to the station (don't remind me...[snip]

I'm sorry. I wouldn't have said that if I had known. I'll try to be more sensitive in the future.

[GUTB_]

The cultural differences are really interesting. In America, and well, most other Western nations, it is accepted as a normal fact of existance that corporations don't care about their employees, and the larger the corporation the more likely it will discard human beings like so much trash. The average worker actually knows that the corporate leaders are the enemy. This is okay because the corporate leaders work hard to maintain their reputation with doing stuff like like abusing work-visa laws to set up 3rd-world import labor clearinghouses to ship jobs to India and China where wages are much lower and the workforce more favorable towards their employer. Even for high-paying professionals know the humiliation of having to train their replacments from overseas to take their jobs. But I guess the difference is that Westerns already know that the system is evil and daydream about about buying some automatic weapons and cleaning out the corporate head offices Matrix-style anyway. Of course, Americans (especially) deal with their own personal suffering in this system by armoring their egos against any admission of wrong-doing. So therefore, if something bad happens to you, you can still feel good about yourself because you KNOW it's not your fault, and that you were just victimized by the evil forces of The Enemy (your boss, the Democracts, Republicans, terrorists, etc). Of course you are perfect and blameless.

I guess Japan which doesn't have a long liberal tradition built up around popular uprisings, social revolutions, labor unions and other things like that is faced with complex social issues that aren't that easy to deal with. So, kj, what's the feeling out on the streets? Is there like a despressed apathy with everyone is complaining, or does it sound like people are ready to start hanging goverment officials and other high-level leaders of the economy?

[senen goroshi]

what thread is this again?

[Whojive]

Originally Posted by NinjaServ

I'm not saying Bush is the best president in the world, but I do have to say, we would be MORE FUCKED UP than we arleady are if Gore was elected....*shudders at thought of Gore big President*....we would be in MUCH worse shape.....

but you wouldn't be posting on this board or downloading anime if it wasn't for Gore, he did invent the internet afterall

[kj1980]

Originally Posted by GUTB_

I guess Japan which doesn't have a long liberal tradition built up around popular uprisings, social revolutions, labor unions and other things like that is faced with complex social issues that aren't that easy to deal with. So, kj, what's the feeling out on the streets? Is there like a despressed apathy with everyone is complaining, or does it sound like people are ready to start hanging goverment officials and other high-level leaders of the economy?

Slowly, Japan is moving towards from a multi-party system of the 1955 system (the LDP majority coalition vs the largest opposition led by the Socialists coalitions) to a "true" two-party system. The last lower house election that we had last month clearly showed the Japanese populace's irritation on how the government is being run. Although the LDP-Komeito coalition was still able to keep its majority with 275 seats, (need 240 to have a majority) it was still 11 seats lower than the previous election (they had 286 seats). An even more interesting aspect from this election is that we now see the "power shift" of the largest opposition group - the Democrats, which significantly increased its seats from 137 in the previous election to 177 seats this year. But the most dramatic poll results was the Socialists...the once-largest opposition group which had held over 155 seats at its peak...has weakened to a miserable 6 seats.

Before reviewing the data, please keep in mind that the LDP - "Liberal Democratic Party" is a very misleading name. It's party's name denotes "Liberal" but it cannot be so far to being conservative, and "Democratic" is more like "Republican." It's "Liberal Democratic" in name only - because it was a merger of two big parties "the Liberals" and "the Democrats" in the post war ashes of Japan.

A review of the election results this year (parenthesis denotes previous seats):

Majority coalition:
LDP [Liberal Democratic Party] - 237 (246)
Komeito [Komeito Buddhist Party] - 34 (31)
NCP [New Conservative Party] - 4 (9)
majority total - 275 (286)

Opposition coalition:
DPJ [Democratic Party of Japan] - 177 (137)
DSP [Democratic Socialist Party] - 6 (18)
JCP [Japan Communist Party] - 9 (20)
FA [Jiyuu Rengo/Freedom Alliance] 1 (1)
Independents - 12 (13)
opposition total - 205 (189)

five seats were added to the lower house of Parliament due to population growth.

What can be interpreted from this data:
1. This marks the first time in post-war Japanese history, where the incumbent majority coalition has dipped below the 60% scale.
2. We see a dramatic decrease in the seats that the minor parties have held, and a "changing of the opposition coalition leader" from the once mighty Socialists to the Democrats.
3. As the minor parties begin to fade and gobbled up by each of the coalition leading party, Japan is beginning to move from a multipartisan to a bipartisan government.
4. Clearly, the hugest gains were made by the Democratic Party - they've gained 40 seats from the previous election, marking the Japanese people's discontent on who's running the government for the last 50 years - the majority holding LDP.

In Japan, where the executive body lies within the legislative (the Prime Minister is basically the president of the major party), any government laws and economic "reforms" are made and passed (called "rammed through") by the majority. It's very interesting to go visit the Lower House assembly when a vote is made to pass a law - the opposition knows that any law made by the LDP are going to pass, so the opposition members retailiate by walking up to the podium VEEEEERY SLOWLY (Do I mean slow? I meant tiptoeing to the podium an inch each step, each opposition member not standing up until his fellow opposition member comes back to his/her seat, meanwhile the opposition member also tiptoes back to his/her seat after casting his/her vote) to cast in their "nay" votes. I guess it's kind of like the American "filibuster" system...only we can't do filibusters because the gichou (something like the House Speaker?) can stop an argument at any time. Of course, doing something like that only shows how our government is useless.

[bOcyOgl]

omg ? i've finished reading the thread already ?? somebody post their opinions in quick!!! i want to read !!! this is worse than waiting for the next KGNE ep

[narako]

Ok this is my opinion

Well first the thing with them being in heaven is kinda good, also the drowning thing is good, but after that it shows Haruka staring outside...

Another thing is that they all seem to be in their younger forms, most of the time, and the fact that they show the older form first(in the very beginning) and then switch to the younger form kinda makes me belive its gonna be like the Happy Haruka ending but... changed so its like Mitsuki or something...

[bOcyOgl]

it is unfair to have an ending of takayuki with any of the girls now . . . its in a big mess now ... they'll all get fed up this love thing and become monks and nuns, and friendship forever ~

[TheBlueOne]

Originally Posted by kj1980

Hey, democracy is great. But at what cost? We've lost something, that something that cannot be regained, due to Western civilization. I cannot fully describe what we've lost...it's the sense of being...hmm...it's kind of like the feeling where you can't find real remote control for the TV and all you have is a universal remote (bad example I know, it's the best I can describe). [[...snip...]] And, as we have gone through a rapid pace of "modernizing," we have problems of the old AND the problems of the new as well. We are very tired, but unfortunately, we cannot slow down.

I had a long reply to this, but MozillaFirebird ate it (curse my usage of nightly builds!).

Basically, I pointed out that a lot of people around me have seem to have similar feelings. I talked about my questioning of communication technology and how it seems to be pulling us apart instead of bringing us together (which makes me something of a traitor to my fellow computer science students).I talked my roomate who's tired of all the hard work to get a good job (I go to a top 10 school in the states, and it's way too cut-throat for my tastes). I talked about another friend who wonders if the world's minute to minute sense of time (instead of day to day or season to season) is a positive thing.

I ended with an preemptive apology in case that the fellings of the people around me were totally different from what kj1980 was talking about.

[vio5555]

Originally Posted by bOcyOgl

omg ? i've finished reading the thread already ?? somebody post their opinions in quick!!! i want to read !!! this is worse than waiting for the next KGNE ep

I really hope that Mitsuki goes all the way with Shinji and that they stay together, so that Bakayuki can become Takayuki by getting back with Haruka. Although it seems as if Akane did a bad thing, Takayuki was crying again over Haruka, so he might care for her again like after the accident if she gets better soon.