(L) Negima Manga Discussion

[Von Himmel]

Wait...so there's still some hopes left for this manga to continue? ;_; Regardless of the slim chance or whatsoever, I'll still wait for it

[Keroko]

You know what? Even though this sounds from all angles like a cheap way out, if it gives even the slightest chance of a story centered around Chao's timeline, I can live with it.

[Valky]

So we'll have something other than that crappy ending? I'm in.

[ellifeedn]

So in theory, does this mean that even fanfics can be "canon" in this series?

[Von Himmel]

Dunno, but I'm more inclined to believe that the alternate universe should still contains the same root (where there are magister nagi fighting CE and stuffs). So all those alternate universe fanfic might not be included in this series...

...

no wait, seriously? o.o; Now that you've mentioned it...

[Hata]

nazinani negima 38

question: wasn't Negi born in 1994? (book 02)
Ken: this book is the correct one, consider all others typo or mistakes.
question: who did that?
Ken: ME!

Arika
what happen to Arika after giving birth to Negi is BY DESIGN not made public.

( it just means she might be featured in future Negima story, whether after death in flashback or alive in some capacity is anyone's guess.)

----------

the sports festival is one of the most important arc in determining Negi's future partner, it almost certainly will be included in the canon if you want to expand on it, in fact, a good story return point for future Negims series would be right after the sports festival, namely the Xmas arc. the divergence point for parallel Negima world time line is 100% Chao related, (Culture Festival, Graduation, Asuna's awakening, etc.) so what happen between culture festival and graduation is FIXED for the timeline IN THIS NEGIMA WORLD WE ARE READING, what is on the student roster by graduation had already happened and won't change. what might change is what Chao shown us in 355 of each person's future BECAUSE IT HAD NOT HAPPEN, YET.

in all honesty, the only things Ken might do in a return of Negima is to expand and explain what happen in the missing gap, and give us a final pairing, some minor changes in job description might happen to a few people, but mostly should stay the same is my guess,

[TnAdct1]

Originally Posted by Hata

the sports festival is one of the most important arc in determining Negi's future partner, it almost certainly will be included in the canon if you want to expand on it, in fact, a good story return point for future Negims series would be right after the sports festival, namely the Xmas arc.

Of course, while the storyline may play a role in the "who Negi ends up with" ordeal, the main reason why some people don't want this included in the canon can be summed up into two big points:

1. This is pretty much a major case of Character Derailment and "Idiot Ball Done Wrong", as this whole thing is initially over a character not realizing that most of the students kissed Negi because that's pretty much the quickest way to make a Pactio, with numerous students that should know better (i.e. Kaede and Setsuna) assisting the class in their torture of Negi.

2. The story itself ends up becoming a huge mess once the students plot to force Negi into revealing which girl he likes, as if Ken Akamatsu wanted to ensure that we get a time skip to graduation by the end of the milestone 350th chapter.

[OverMaster]

No offense, Hata, but it looks to me like you're pretending your word is law when in fact you're mostly extrapolating on your own guesses and estimations on the manga's ending.

The only important thing the Sports Festival did was revealing Negi liked someone, and even then that was something that never was followed on (technically, a sequel/reboot should do that). The rest was pure useless fluff (yes, even Akira's Pactio that never was used again) and character derailment. You might as well place the revelation elsewhere, if you're writing a parallel universe.

The 353 Chao divergence point is the only one THAT WE KNOW OF FOR SURE YET. For all we know, Akamatsu might reveal others, like what'd have happened if Negi hadn't traveled back in time at the end of Mahorafest.

in all honesty, the only things Ken might do in a return of Negima is to expand and explain what happen in the missing gap, and give us a final pairing, some minor changes in job description might happen to a few people, but mostly should stay the same is my guess

The final arc to beat Lifemaker should be a huge event by itself, not to mention all the class roster stuff and the unseen Pactios.

[Hata]

Originally Posted by TnAdct1

Of course, while the storyline may play a role in the "who Negi ends up with" ordeal, the main reason why some people don't want this included in the canon can be summed up into two big points:

ahem, you sure the only reason you don't like the Negima ending is not because Nodoka is not IT?

there are always "purpose" behind a story arc, for the festival it is Negi's partner and further define Negi's relationship with some of the girls, not a final solution, but rather a tease for Negima 2, in that regard, it did its job brilliantly, all the fandom can talk about is "who will end up with Negi?"

Originally Posted by TnAdct1

1. This is pretty much a major case of Character Derailment and "Idiot Ball Done Wrong", as this whole thing is initially over a character not realizing that most of the students kissed Negi because that's pretty much the quickest way to make a Pactio, with numerous students that should know better (i.e. Kaede and Setsuna) assisting the class in their torture of Negi.

ah, I don't see you complain when in the Kyoto arc in the inn the students were pretty much doing the same thing, could it be because Nodoka won that one?

Originally Posted by TnAdct1

2. The story itself ends up becoming a huge mess once the students plot to force Negi into revealing which girl he likes, as if Ken Akamatsu wanted to ensure that we get a time skip to graduation by the end of the milestone 350th chapter.

you yourself just explain why Ken did that, it had to be set as the BAIT for us to remain interest, remember, Ken knew he was ending Negima soon, so my argument is the sports festival is something that had to be done the way it is, and Ken did a very good job pulling it off, it serves all HIS PURPOSES, just to see how many people respond to a POSSIBLE RETURN of the manga is proof enough I think.

Originally Posted by OverMaster

No offense, Hata, but it looks to me like you're pretending your word is law when in fact you're mostly extrapolating on your own guesses and estimations on the manga's ending.

1. you have to face the fact not all the people agree with your views, in fact, you just told me so,
2. I made many predictions for Negima, more often wrong than right, but again, I think on average I can say "I told you so" more than most, here or anywhere. of course, even that is up to debate, but I put my words out there, you can of course come back and laugh at me later when it is wrong, I just don't see too many people come back and acknowledge it when my shots come true, if this my preemptive strike style bugs you, ignore me and move on. because I write by logic and disdain fandom emotional outburst, while my logic may falter my writing style is not gonna change, no matter where I post.

Originally Posted by OverMaster

The final arc to beat Lifemaker should be a huge event by itself, not to mention all the class roster stuff and the unseen Pactios.

nobody says the dealing with LM is unimportant, BUT THE FINAL OUTCOME IS NOT GONNA CHANGE, Negi will beat LM, I am talking what MIGHT change in a new Negima series. like I say, all those marked on the school rosters are facts already happened IN THE TIMELINE WE ARE READING, the only way Ken can change it is by creating another timeline with a time traveling backward, then it will no longer be THE timeline we are reading, etc.

[Tiresias]

Eh, If what happened in the so-called finale will not change I'm not really interested. The two F-you's-from-the-creators I've received this year from both Negima and Mass Effect kinda killed my enthusiasm.

I'll probably stay here so when any Arika spoilers pop up I'll know which chapter to get (and that chapter only) but the days of me waiting expectantly every week for Negima updates is long gone.

[AstroNerdBoy]

Originally Posted by Hata

nazinani negima 38

question: wasn't Negi born in 1994? (book 02)
Ken: this book is the correct one, consider all others typo or mistakes.
question: who did that?
Ken: ME!

Arika
what happen to Arika after giving birth to Negi is BY DESIGN not made public.

( it just means she might be featured in future Negima story, whether after death in flashback or alive in some capacity is anyone's guess.)

I'm way tired here, so someone remind me as to the updated year that Negi is born.

Thanks for the info, Hata. ^_^

[chaosprophet]

Originally Posted by Hata

nobody says the dealing with LM is unimportant, BUT THE FINAL OUTCOME IS NOT GONNA CHANGE, Negi will beat LM, I am talking what MIGHT change in a new Negima series. like I say, all those marked on the school rosters are facts already happened IN THE TIMELINE WE ARE READING, the only way Ken can change it is by creating another timeline with a time traveling backward, then it will no longer be THE timeline we are reading, etc.

The question here is, on the time skips we had after the festival, and after the time Asuna was back, there could been countless chances for someone to time travel and change something. And even if that isn't the case, one idea that comes with that multiple universes theory is that there is one branch for every different choice someone can made, and not just when someone time travel. So Akamatsu could just decide to show us a different branch after some point, and not necessary the same one that resulted in the manga end.

I do agree it would likely start from the end of the sport festival or later.

[Keroko]

Originally Posted by Hata

ahem, you sure the only reason you don't like the Negima ending is not because Nodoka is not IT?

I can't speak for others, but the main reason I don't like it is because it wasted almost 6 chapters that could have been used tying up plotthreads. Not even the main plot stuff like the Lifemaker arc or who does Negi love, but stuff like "what's up with Zazie?" "What's the story behind Ako's scar" "How did Misora and Cocone get together?" You know, questions readers have been wondering about for the past two dozen volumes.

Originally Posted by Hata

there are always "purpose" behind a story arc, for the festival it is Negi's partner and further define Negi's relationship with some of the girls, not a final solution, but rather a tease for Negima 2, in that regard, it did its job brilliantly, all the fandom can talk about is "who will end up with Negi?"

Yeah. No. That's just a generic "I'm not telling the final answer" harem ending. Nothing "brilliant" about it. It's the biggest cliche in the book.

Originally Posted by Hata

ah, I don't see you complain when in the Kyoto arc in the inn the students were pretty much doing the same thing, could it be because Nodoka won that one?

The Kyoto arc wasn't the final bloody arc in the manga. If this was just a side-step like the Kyoto arc, we would've just written it of as a time-waster and continued reading the manga. The problem is that the manga pretty much ended with that time-waster.

Originally Posted by Hata

you yourself just explain why Ken did that, it had to be set as the BAIT for us to remain interest, remember, Ken knew he was ending Negima soon, so my argument is the sports festival is something that had to be done the way it is, and Ken did a very good job pulling it off, it serves all HIS PURPOSES, just to see how many people respond to a POSSIBLE RETURN of the manga is proof enough I think.

You'll excuse me if I don't exactly agree with the business plan of giving your fans a crappy ending filled with plotholes just to see how many will be interested in a sequel. Mostly because it means that if not enough people (how many is "enough" anyway) raise a fuss, we're stuck with it. That's just raising a big middle finger to your fans, really.

Originally Posted by Hata

nobody says the dealing with LM is unimportant, BUT THE FINAL OUTCOME IS NOT GONNA CHANGE, Negi will beat LM, I am talking what MIGHT change in a new Negima series. like I say, all those marked on the school rosters are facts already happened IN THE TIMELINE WE ARE READING, the only way Ken can change it is by creating another timeline with a time traveling backward, then it will no longer be THE timeline we are reading, etc.

Do we need the outcome to change? There's still a dozen questions about the entire lifemaster deal left unanswered to make for an interesting plot without involving time traveling shenanigans. Not to mention all the previously mentioned sub-plots and, of course, the big "what the bloody hell happened to Arika" elephant in the room.

But if we really are getting time travel and alternate realities involved here... pretty much anything can happen. That's one of the fun things and at the same time the biggest annoyance about time-travel, really.

[AstroNerdBoy]

Six chapters couldn't have wrapped up all of the outstanding plot threads.

[Keroko]

Hardly. But they could have at least tied up some of them.

[chaosprophet]

Keroko, I believe the point Hata is trying to make is, for other reasons (which seems to be regarding his contract with Kadokawa and the neighbor copyrights law) Ken had to end the manga there. He either could have used the last few chapters to make the manga goes to a very rushed end, or do what seems to be the case he did: If he is going to do a sequel later, continue the manga as he would, giving some hints (like that Negi already had special feelings for someone) without giving any big thing away, and just give a quick skip to be the end. That way he ends the current one while keeping ground for the sequel. After all rushing all the plot points and battles we had yet to see in a few chapters would also likely end up as a bad end. But one with no interest / space for he to continue.

[Von Himmel]

Well if Akamatsu wants to give a sequel for negima, giving that last 6 chapters was probably the best choice. We could see how much potential that this series have because of that 6 chapters. Adding that to the possibility of the sequels/expansion, I'm now really looking forward to it.

[Tiresias]

When people say six, did they include the stupid shota-rape attempt arc? Because I'm pretty sure that one alone counts more than six...

[OverMaster]

Originally Posted by Keroko

Yeah. No. That's just a generic "I'm not telling the final answer" harem ending. Nothing "brilliant" about it. It's the biggest cliche in the book.


The Kyoto arc wasn't the final bloody arc in the manga. If this was just a side-step like the Kyoto arc, we would've just written it of as a time-waster and continued reading the manga. The problem is that the manga pretty much ended with that time-waster.

You'll excuse me if I don't exactly agree with the business plan of giving your fans a crappy ending filled with plotholes just to see how many will be interested in a sequel. Mostly because it means that if not enough people (how many is "enough" anyway) raise a fuss, we're stuck with it. That's just raising a big middle finger to your fans, really.

Pretty much agreeing with all these points. I think Hata's letting his fanatism for Akamatsu get the better off his objectivity here.

[TnAdct1]

Originally Posted by OverMaster

Pretty much agreeing with all these points. I think Hata's letting his fanatism for Akamatsu get the better off his objectivity here.

I can see that. After all, it seems that he's failing to not understand the following points that I made in my complaints about the Sport Festival arc:

1. Remember, the real reason why this event took place wasn't to find out who Negi has feelings for, but rather because Misa discovered that over half the class has kissed Negi, and jealous that she didn't kiss Negi yet, convinced the class that what he's doing is wrong, with the event being a way to teach Negi a lesson in taking advantage of a girl's emotions. Akira, Nodoka and Yue shouldn't be the only students that know better and defend Negi here. Also adding to the problems is that no one brought up the following things that would easily cause the class to realize just how full of bull Misa's complaints are:

• The fact that most of the kisses were done not out of romantic intentions, but because it was the quickest way to form a Pactio AKA a way to assist Negi in battle;
• Haruna and Yuuna, the two main students that sided with Misa when she accused Negi of being a womanizer, only kissed Negi because they wanted the Pactio card (thus meaning that they're pretty much hypocrites here).

2. By the mess once the class learns about Negi liking someone, I meant the sloppiness in how chapters 348-349 are handled. More specifically:

• When chapter 347 ended, the main students involved in this mess have learned about Negi liking someone, only for the next chapter starting with with them rounding up other students and then ganging up on Negi and Asuna with no real buildup;
• There's no real explanation to why Zazie eventually sided with Negi in chapter 349 after spending the entire last chapter siding with 3-A.