[GSD] Does anyone else think Shin is a bastard?

[Sheriff lobo]

Originally Posted by Godtype

So, I suppose pointing out that he's a suck main character is Shinn hating? That's about the same logic people use to explain to us why he's a good one, supernatural 'glimpses' into his considerably better character which has (yet) to be developed.

Exactly, his character has YET to be developed. In the past 7 episodes there has hardly been any focus on shinn and rightfully so as they were introducing an array of new and old characters also the plot. so give him time before all you fangirls start screaming for blood.....

[Godtype]

Originally Posted by Sheriff lobo

Exactly, his character has YET to be developed. In the past 7 episodes there has hardly been any focus on shinn and rightfully so as they were introducing an array of new and old characters also the plot. so give him time before all you fangirls start screaming for blood.....

Excuse me, but trying to dictate what people think of a character simply because the ample time throughout the first 7 episodes wasn't focused on your (NOT) complex main character doesn't really fly. You're basing your argument on something that won't happen, yet you insist will. However, us 'Shinn-haters' have everything that has REALLY happened to base our opinion on, not fiction.

[Sheriff lobo]

Originally Posted by Godtype

Excuse me, but trying to dictate what people think of a character simply because the ample time throughout the first 7 episodes wasn't focused on your (NOT) complex main character doesn't really fly. You're basing your argument on something that won't happen, yet you insist will. However, us 'Shinn-haters' have everything that has REALLY happened to base our opinion on, not fiction.

sigh, the point i was trying to make was give him time...and what arguement is that? i have yet to hear anything solid to back up your and everyone elses claim besides, all ive been hearing is "shinn needs to die" blah blah blah etc. You say that given the 7 episoeds he SHOULD have had enough character development and then go on to say that he WONT develope and change, yet all we know about him is his parents and family died? im sorry but your clearly biased on this point

[Esper 28]

I did notice that Godtype is the only one calling his crusade against Shinn an "argument". I don't think anyone is trying to argue with you, I think they're trying to convince you to be a wee bit more open minded when it comes to the character. You've got an your mind made up that Shinn is and always will be a horrible character. If you continue with that train of thought, Shinn could develope into this amazing Gundam character that will live up there with the greats but you'd still be there nagging about how he sucks.

Either way, the bottom line is nobody is trying to tell you that your opinion is wrong. They're just saying you're forming your opinion rather early and suggest you wait awhile before coming to any conclusions.

Besides, it seems to me that you and Shinn similar. You've both got some misplaced anger issues...

[kikko_s]

Originally Posted by Esper 28

I did notice that Godtype is the only one calling his crusade against Shinn an "argument". I don't think anyone is trying to argue with you, I think they're trying to convince you to be a wee bit more open minded when it comes to the character. You've got an your mind made up that Shinn is and always will be a horrible character. If you continue with that train of thought, Shinn could develope into this amazing Gundam character that will live up there with the greats but you'd still be there nagging about how he sucks.

Either way, the bottom line is nobody is trying to tell you that your opinion is wrong. They're just saying you're forming your opinion rather early and suggest you wait awhile before coming to any conclusions.

Besides, it seems to me that you and Shinn similar. You've both got some misplaced anger issues...

Yeah he COULD develop into a good character, what he's saying is that as of now, Shinn's got something stuck up his ass. And I agree. Shinn berates people he doesn't even know. He's looking for someone to blame for his loss even after the war was over. No one wants to go through the war all over again. When people try to do something about it, Shinn calls them sugar-coating somethingorothers. What's been sugar-coated? All people (or at least a good 90% of people), naturals and coordinators, would have died in the final battle if not for Cagalli, Athrun and the rest of the gang. Who's he to tell anyone off?

[Tron Bonne]

You really don't understand Shinn at all. Shinn is not looking for someone to blame. Shinn chose to join Zaft because he feels without someone willing to fight people will die. It has nothing to do with blame or revenge. He only became anrgy when Caglli started to mouth off about how it was their fault these things were happening right after his friends and him risked their lives to protect her.

[kikko_s]

Originally Posted by Tron Bonne

You really don't understand Shinn at all. Shinn is not looking for someone to blame. Shinn chose to join Zaft because he feels without someone willing to fight people will die. It has nothing to do with blame or revenge. He only became anrgy when Caglli started to mouth off about how it was their fault these things were happening right after his friends and him risked their lives to protect her.

If he fights what who will die? The war is over. There's no one to fight. Rebuild your cities and your families not your armies. That's Cagalli's point. It IS their fault that those things were happening. You can't steal something that's not there. And if you make such weapons, at least guard them better. I don't think Cagalli cared wether or not she lived or died there, she just didn't want any more weapons or war.

[dreamless]

I think Shin is annoying, but not to the "bastard" or "he needs to die" point, for me at least. Surely he's not an all heroic and kind and loving character, he's not Lacus

And yup he's not nearly as good as Kira and Athrun. Athrun is a genius, he is the #1 top student in academy and he's top at everything.

And I don't see any conenction between Shin and Patrick Zala, Shin is definitely not a Zala extremists, even when that guy joke about letting Junius 7 drop on Earth, Shin is clearly shown annoyed by that joke. He just thinks that power is necessary for peace, not some hollow words of maintaining neutrality and things.

And yup, Shin only turned against Cagalli after she said that the soldiers (including him) was the cause of the tragedy, right after he was fighting out there risking his life against an enemy invasion. Let's just say Cagalli didn't leave a good first impression to him, I guess that's why he's always picking on her, which is quite annoyng lately. But then I think things like this happen, when someone said something which hurt your feelings greatly the first time you meet, you surely won't have a good impression of that person. And if you try to tell some soldiers fighting with their lives that they are useless except causing more troubles for the country, I'm sure you won't be treated well by them.

And even in times of peace, countries still need to maintain military powers to defend themselves. Especially when the tension is still quite high with blue cosmos and anti-coordinator sentiments everywhere. EA is developing their next-gen MS called Windam to replace their old Dagger L, I don't see there's any problem for ZAFT to develop new weapons. About the weak guarding of the weapons, well, we can blame it on the spies and moles. ZAFT stole GAT-Xs from EA, Kira stole Freedom from ZAFT, now EA stole these new ZGMF-Xs from ZAFT, it's always because of spies and moles. Once you have moles in key positions, security system is no use.

[Godtype]

Originally Posted by Esper 28

I did notice that Godtype is the only one calling his crusade against Shinn an "argument". I don't think anyone is trying to argue with you, I think they're trying to convince you to be a wee bit more open minded when it comes to the character. You've got an your mind made up that Shinn is and always will be a horrible character. If you continue with that train of thought, Shinn could develope into this amazing Gundam character that will live up there with the greats but you'd still be there nagging about how he sucks.

Either way, the bottom line is nobody is trying to tell you that your opinion is wrong. They're just saying you're forming your opinion rather early and suggest you wait awhile before coming to any conclusions.

Besides, it seems to me that you and Shinn similar. You've both got some misplaced anger issues...

So, basically you want to sum up what had happened through your own looking glass and then make a personal attack?

Who is the angry one again?

[kikko_s]

Originally Posted by dreamless

About the weak guarding of the weapons, well, we can blame it on the spies and moles. ZAFT stole GAT-Xs from EA, Kira stole Freedom from ZAFT, now EA stole these new ZGMF-Xs from ZAFT, it's always because of spies and moles. Once you have moles in key positions, security system is no use.

I suppose...but still...I thought coordinators were supposed to be great soldiers. They were all cut down by the druggies in like 5 seconds. I mean, c'mon, there were only three of them (plus the people who helped them in, but I didn't see them wreaking havoc). Yo judging from Athrun's performance at the shooting range, he would've just shot those three straight up gangsta!

*PS* In that scene where they steal the Gundams, does anyone else think it's a total rip-off from that movie Equilibrium?

And you're right, maybe Cagalli hasn't helped herself in the PR department, but I still think Shinn has to hold his tongue a little more. Cagalli's got a lot more to show for her years than Shinn does (what with his Power Rangers MegaZord Impulse Gundam...man, who thought that was a good idea?!?).

And it appears as if you've seen later episodes? Do you know where to get the RAWs for them?

[dreamless]

later episodes? do you mean the Windams? The Windams are not shown in the anime yet, but in anime magazine synopsis and articles and things.

enhanced humans are supposedly much stronger than coordinators. Also don't count Athrun as the coordinator standard. he's a legend even in school days, he's #1 top in everything. so don't expect other coordinators as good as him (which is shown in ep7).

[kikko_s]

Originally Posted by dreamless

later episodes? do you mean the Windams? The Windams are not shown in the anime yet, but in anime magazine synopsis and articles and things.

enhanced humans are supposedly much stronger than coordinators. Also don't count Athrun as the coordinator standard. he's a legend even in school days, he's #1 top in everything. so don't expect other coordinators as good as him (which is shown in ep7).

Windam...wha??

Anyway yeah, so maybe Athrun's a cut above the rest...but I mean there were the Red-uniform guys in there too when the Gundam was being stolen. Aren't they supposed to be tough too? I'm assuming the special forces guys were the pilots of the stolen Gundams, so are we supposed to assume that the druggies are all hyper-super-duper humans? I mean, in the last battle they were gettin' pwned by Athrun and Isaac.

[ahmad]

i don't like shin either.. in eps 7 when cagalli is talking with athrun he comes out of nowhere and starts yelling at her : / calling her idiot and stuff.. "you don't understand anything .." as if he understands everythere there is to undertand... really pisses me off, and everyone is always letting him say crap >.<

[Anavel]

I haven't seen EP 7 yet and so far he's a jerk. Why? Well the series just started and the only thing that he keeps thinking is about what happened to his family in the past, of course his views will probably change as the series goes on, from asshole to not an asshole, of course I might be wrong. :P

[pyu]

Well, Shinn has a pole up his ass regarding Cagalli simply because she's from ORB and is an Athha. I find it rather irrational that he resents the ORB leadership for their policy of neutrality - they did send out their MS forces to stage a resistance against the EA forces while evacuating civillians.

Personally, the major difference here is Shinn probably considers himself as a Coordinator first - before everything else. Before you scratch your head and ask what is the problem here, Cagalli and her father before her knew that distinction to be a false creation formed by radicals such as Blue Cosmos and Patrick Zala. This is probably also true for Athrun, Kira, Lacus and all those in the Clyne faction who wanted the war to end.

Segregation is usually the first step towards genocide. Too bad its already started...

Anyway, I wish to note that after their previous encounter before the fall of Junius 7, Cagalli no longer screams back at Shinn and looks to have little energy to deal with him either. Hell, she doesn't seem to have any spirit or energy to deal with anything... Poor girl...

[Evan]

Basically I think most of the characters are stupid except for Lacus,Rey,Auel and stella.

Shinn always thinked that he is the only guy who suffered the worst tragedy on earth...Oh pls.....

[JokerD]

It's easy to ignore other people's tragedies, especally since Shin prob don't know about it. Ans dwe don't know what his life was pior to joining ZAFT, now no family to take care of him and all the war shortages that should be going on in PLANT with the influx of Orbians. I guess all he can see right now is that his family is killed and that even after all that Cagalli and the (royal?) family is in power so it make you wonder what suffering they went through during the course of the war.
Of course we know better since we actually watched GS and know what happened after the civies are evacuated.
Well, most gundam series are about the gowth of the characters during wartime, I don't expect this to change so Shin would survive and change his way of thinking.

Just a side note, I thought that most of the civilians were evacuated before the commancement of the fighting, I wonder if it's the family's fault for being so slow.
And the real bastard is Yazk, I can't forgive someone for intenionally killing civilians, I wonder if he ever finds out that the shuttle he shot contained civilians and if he was charged for that.

[sparkswy]

Compared to the previous protagonist Kira,everyone can reduce Shinn to a spoiled little boy or a whining bastard.However, don't you reach your conclusion too early?Shinn lost his family before his eyes at the last war,though I have to admit his way to express his anger is not appropriate,he just has the right to get angry with the leader family who had the responsibility to protect the people and had promised to protect the people with their unrealistic ideals.Also compared to the veterans like Athrun and Yzak from the last war,Shinn's combat skills are not good.He only lacks practical battling experiences.As DESTINY proceeds episode by episode,undoubtly Shinn is going to gain the power to catch up with Athrun and the other veterans.In a word,you had better evaluate Shinn after DESTINY is finished a year later.

[sparkswy]

Originally Posted by JokerD

It's easy to ignore other people's tragedies, especally since Shin prob don't know about it. Ans dwe don't know what his life was pior to joining ZAFT, now no family to take care of him and all the war shortages that should be going on in PLANT with the influx of Orbians. I guess all he can see right now is that his family is killed and that even after all that Cagalli and the (royal?) family is in power so it make you wonder what suffering they went through during the course of the war.
Of course we know better since we actually watched GS and know what happened after the civies are evacuated.
Well, most gundam series are about the gowth of the characters during wartime, I don't expect this to change so Shin would survive and change his way of thinking.

Just a side note, I thought that most of the civilians were evacuated before the commancement of the fighting, I wonder if it's the family's fault for being so slow.
And the real bastard is Yazk, I can't forgive someone for intenionally killing civilians, I wonder if he ever finds out that the shuttle he shot contained civilians and if he was charged for that.

Yzak wreaked his rage on innocent civillians because Kira kicked his ass too much and he was unable to find a way to pay back the pain he got kicked.

[kikko_s]

Originally Posted by sparkswy

Yzak wreaked his rage on innocent civillians because Kira kicked his ass too much and he was unable to find a way to pay back the pain he got kicked.

If I remember correctly, he shot the shuttle thinking that there were officers fleeing the battle. I don't think he knew there were civilians in there. But I think part of it had to do with the fact that they couldn't pwn Kira even though it was 4 on 1.