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Old 2020-10-05, 12:17   Link #21
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
So let's kill all superhuman regardless whether they are good or bad just to be safe? That's safest way to get superpowered extremists for sure.
Wars happen for less, you know.

In any case, I think Nana is just following orders. If the kids are considered enemies of humanity, chances are the government or some other organization deemed it so, and Nana is just an agent sent to do the deed.

If that's the case, I doubt Nana is allowed to decide who lives and dies. I bet her orders are simply to kill everyone.
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Old 2020-10-05, 12:28   Link #22
Tenzen12
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
Wars happen for less, you know
Yes and such wars cannot be justified either, don't you think?

Quote:
In any case, I think Nana is just following orders. If the kids are considered enemies of humanity, chances are the government or some other organization deemed it so, and Nana is just an agent sent to do the deed.

If that's the case, I doubt Nana is allowed to decide who lives and dies. I bet her orders are simply to kill everyone.
There is less problem with Nana killing someone and more with hers overall lack of empathy. Nana is main character so even if she commit evil deeds we should still be able root for her to degree. I mean look on Gunslinger Girls or Death Note.

It doesn't help Nana's way of killing, ie taking adventages of her victims trust and emotional scars makes it even more deplorable. Just throwing nuke on island would be much easier to forgive and move on.
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Old 2020-10-05, 12:36   Link #23
thundrakkon
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So did Nanao actually die? If he survived, then what becomes of Nana?


As for the idea of guiding Nanao to do good in the future, we can play a scenario exercise. If you're able to go back to the past to Hitler's childhood, do you think you'll be able to guide Hitler on a path where he doesn't commit genocide in the future? And that is the million dollar question, which is probably what the author saw somewhere and used it here.
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Old 2020-10-05, 12:41   Link #24
Tenzen12
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Well if I cannot lead him on right path I can always kill Hitler later once he start be, you know... Hitler.
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Old 2020-10-05, 12:44   Link #25
BWTraveller
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Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
Yes and such wars cannot be justified either, don't you think?



There is less problem with Nana killing someone and more with hers overall lack of empathy. Nana is main character so even if she commit evil deeds we should still be able root for her to degree. I mean look on Gunslinger Girls or Death Note.

It doesn't help Nana's way of killing, ie taking adventages of her victims trust and emotional scars makes it even more deplorable. Just throwing nuke on island would be much easier to forgive and move on.
For starters, the problem with just nuking the island is what to do with further talented that may arise in the future. You really think people with great powers are just going to peacefully walk into the hands of people who nuked people like them just for being like them? Or if they successfully covered things up, how many times do you think they'd be able to convince kids to go to a training school if the "enemy" destroyed all the previous schools? They may be able to conceal the whole thing and pretend that the previous classes are off somewhere fighting the enemy, but the bigger and flashier the destruction is the harder it will be to conceal it. I'd say it makes plenty of sense to simply send an individual to kill as many as possible before eventually setting up some kind of cleanup.
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Old 2020-10-05, 12:55   Link #26
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Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
perhaps she's from the future and in her timeline these kids actually were responsible for the deaths of millions.
This seems most likely considering the next episode is titled 'Time Traveler' and she somehow has knowledge about how many people the students will kill.
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Old 2020-10-05, 13:01   Link #27
Tenzen12
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Originally Posted by BWTraveller View Post
For starters, the problem with just nuking the island is what to do with further talented that may arise in the future. You really think people with great powers are just going to peacefully walk into the hands of people who nuked people like them just for being like them? Or if they successfully covered things up, how many times do you think they'd be able to convince kids to go to a training school if the "enemy" destroyed all the previous schools? They may be able to conceal the whole thing and pretend that the previous classes are off somewhere fighting the enemy, but the bigger and flashier the destruction is the harder it will be to conceal it. I'd say it makes plenty of sense to simply send an individual to kill as many as possible before eventually setting up some kind of cleanup.
Nuke was just example not prefered method of genocide.

Thing is you still can emphathise with someone responsible for hundred of deads if it was done by pushing button, but much less if said someone actually did it personaly in cruel and brutal fashion. Even normal Joe can do former if there is right rationale, but you have to be special kind of bastard to do later. Nana's method are hard to symphatise with, much less root for.
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Old 2020-10-05, 13:05   Link #28
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
Yes and such wars cannot be justified either, don't you think?
The point is, for the story to work, Nana's action and motivation have to be plausible, but they don't need to be morally correct. They don't even have to make logical sense since most of the time human actions (individual or collective) don't make a lot of sense either.

You may see Nana as a villain protagonist (like Light from Death Note) if you will, though I think we don't know enough of what's going on to make that conclusions yet.

In any case, let's just wait and see. At the very least I think we need to learn exactly why the kids are considering enemies of humanity, and who (if anyone) sent Nana there.
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Old 2020-10-05, 13:08   Link #29
VDZ
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Originally Posted by Tenzen12 View Post
Well if I cannot lead him on right path I can always kill Hitler later once he start be, you know... Hitler.
It's not like Hitler suddenly switched from enthusiastic painter to genocidal maniac one day. It was a gradual change. When would you kill Hitler? When he got rejected from art school and blamed his misfortune on the Jews? Then you've killed someone for the simple crime of being antisemitic (and there's millions of others you could kill for the exact same crime). When he joined the Nazi Party? Then you've killed a low-ranking politician for expressing extremist views - again, plenty of other people you could murder today for the same reason. When he started getting influential in the Nazi Party? It's still hard to argue he's done anything deserving death and now you've made him a martyr, strengthening the Nazi Party and probably leading to an alternate Nazi history where Nazism took control of Germany even earlier. And so on, and so forth, until Hitler is the monster we know him as today and not even the people directly around him had a chance of killing him, to say nothing of what would happen if he got killed at the height of his power (I for one don't want to know what a Nazi Germany led by Heinrich Himmler looks like).

There's never a morally good time to kill a future mass murderer, and the practically best time is when they're still weak and unknown.
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Old 2020-10-05, 13:09   Link #30
Tenzen12
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Yes, when he started to spread ant-jew propaganda sound like pretty good time to me. It's less about when he deserve death and more when it's obvious effort to change him for better failed.

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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
The point is, for the story to work, Nana's action and motivation have to be plausible, but they don't need to be morally correct. They don't even have to make logical sense since most of the time human actions (individual or collective) don't make a lot of sense either.

You may see Nana as a villain protagonist (like Light from Death Note) if you will, though I think we don't know enough of what's going on to make that conclusions yet.

In any case, let's just wait and see. At the very least I think we need to learn exactly why the kids are considering enemies of humanity, and who (if anyone) sent Nana there.

Well, I don't think I disagree with anything you just said.
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Old 2020-10-05, 13:27   Link #31
Shadow5YA
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
As far as we could tell, he could only cancel powers, not control them. His ability is harmless, and he only ended up as the leader because Nana pushed him on that road. It feels like he could have been humanity's greatest weapon instead.
Even if Nana hadn't been there, it's possible that someone else could have been bullied, and Nanao would have stood up for them instead later down the line. With all the kids reliant on their powers, they would be unable to stop him, and he would have risen in the ranks anyway.

That's not to say he couldn't have been reasoned with, but I don't necessarily buy that he would have remained useless without Nana forever either.
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Old 2020-10-05, 14:07   Link #32
stray
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As far as we could tell, he could only cancel powers, not control them. His ability is harmless, and he only ended up as the leader because Nana pushed him on that road. It feels like he could have been humanity's greatest weapon instead.
Index made a franchise out of that ability... albeit with a bunch of other MCs too though.

Premise reminds me a bit of The Boys on Amazon but Nana's way more of a villain than an antihero right now. Probably would have played better if her speech to Nanao was a soliloquy instead. Although I guess it might be going for more of a Happy Sugar Life vibe, its hard to tell.
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Old 2020-10-05, 20:13   Link #33
BWTraveller
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I don't think we're really supposed to "empathize" with Nana, at least not yet. We don't really know what this's all about. It could be this's the only solution, or that she believes it is, or possibly not. Either way, I think what's really going to make a difference isn't "pushing a button" versus "personal killing", as frankly one could argue a lot about which one is more moral or easier to empathize with. Rather, it's how well we are able to empathize with her motives and either how much regret/conflict she shows or how much confirmation she gets that these people are indeed monsters.

Personally, I find killing in person to be a bit more moral, as you have to actually see the person, feel the weight of their existence as you push them or sink your weapon into them. A person who's just pushing a button doesn't see his victims and doesn't really recognize the fact that they're really there, really alive. A person who pushes another person, or cuts them with a sword, feels the life he/she's taking and has to live with it. I've actually seen such concepts once or twice in anime when discussing guns vs. swords: with a gun you're a good distance away and kind of approach "the push of a button", but with a sword you feel the weight of their bones and the warmth of their blood, and have no choice but to recognize that you've taken a life.
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Old 2020-10-05, 20:39   Link #34
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I just wish they hadn't told us who the culprit was and made it a mystery instead.
For the viewers this is basically having shown us the last page of a mystery novel first and now see how dumb the characters are for not catching on.
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Old 2020-10-05, 20:49   Link #35
Kazu-kun
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^ Well, I guess the author wanted to tell Nana's story, and you can't do that without revealing she's the killer.
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Old 2020-10-05, 21:30   Link #36
BWTraveller
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I just wish they hadn't told us who the culprit was and made it a mystery instead.
For the viewers this is basically having shown us the last page of a mystery novel first and now see how dumb the characters are for not catching on.
I agree fully, though I also understand Kazu's point. I love stories where there's a hidden killer or mole among a group of "friends", it's always a great read. But at the same time, there's definitely potential for some interesting material following an actual killer who's trying to figure out how to kill an entire class full of people, many of whom are definitively far stronger than her and could easily be rid of her if they start to suspect her. Keeping people from turning on her long enough will certainly be an interesting form of suspense.
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Old 2020-10-05, 22:14   Link #37
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ok to be fair without again goes spoiler to help peoples understand what to get here, this serie is a sort of "reverse mystery" instead of you "find out who is the culprit" we are on the "culprit" vision, it's about "make the perfect crime" she have to kill all of then without get caught then she must make every death looks like its a "enemies of mankind" or other person fault never have any clues leading to her, then we are going from her point of view,

a good exemple here would ge the game "among us" she is the "fake" and must kill peoples without giving any traces about her being the murder, if you played this game then you will understand how this anime will work.
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Old 2020-10-05, 22:38   Link #38
BWTraveller
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ok to be fair without again goes spoiler to help peoples understand what to get here, this serie is a sort of "reverse mystery" instead of you "find out who is the culprit" we are on the "culprit" vision, it's about "make the perfect crime" she have to kill all of then without get caught then she must make every death looks like its a "enemies of mankind" or other person fault never have any clues leading to her, then we are going from her point of view,

a good exemple here would ge the game "among us" she is the "fake" and must kill peoples without giving any traces about her being the murder, if you played your kill this game then you will understand how this anime will work.
I'd honestly thought about that game. Never played it or anything myself, but I've heard enough to get the idea. There've been a few others like it in the past, like I believe a gothic game (not computer, card or something) in which one or two players are werewolves or something. I remember I'd seen people comment about how much more fun it is to play the fake and try to kill without getting caught, and I can certainly understand the suspense of being the cat rather than the mice. I was just momentarily disappointed that what I was hoping would be one of the few series I've seen with a really good "killer among us" vibe erased that concept from the get-go.
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Old 2020-10-06, 01:01   Link #39
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the setting is interesting, but not in the mood to tune in to see the PoV of the character to be killed of the week and feel bad at the end for that person.
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Old 2020-10-06, 01:20   Link #40
Blueknight78
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I'd honestly thought about that game. Never played it or anything myself, but I've heard enough to get the idea. There've been a few others like it in the past, like I believe a gothic game (not computer, card or something) in which one or two players are werewolves or something. I remember I'd seen people comment about how much more fun it is to play the fake and try to kill without getting caught, and I can certainly understand the suspense of being the cat rather than the mice. I was just momentarily disappointed that what I was hoping would be one of the few series I've seen with a really good "killer among us" vibe erased that concept from the get-go.
yeah this is how this anime work, we are "playing as the cat and how the cat make his "strategy to get the mouse "alone" and defenseless this is the difference from others "mudererer plots is which while others the muderer is "hidden" not visible, she is totaly visible to everyone, peoples can see her all the times, as we saw in order to sucess she must "act and deceive peoples to corner then alone and be able to "kill then", she must find how they power works, how she can "exploit any weakness how to make sure the remain survivos never suspect of her and those stuffs, for me is a good plot twist where the "mystery" is around how she can be a good assassin and be able to hidden herself in the sights of eveyone without get caught.

the survives never can "catch or even suspect of you, while you go killing each one, or at last the most dangerous ones.
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