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Old 2020-10-15, 19:15   Link #61
AC-Phoenix
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So, maybe I'm wrong but...
It looks like Nana covered parts of the still frozen river with soil to make it look like he stood on shallow ground. When he travelled back in time, he landed on water and drowned because he couldn't swim.

But... The River didn't appear to be THAT wide, and barely had a flow... Shouldn't he have made it to either side of the shore, anyway? I mean even though he couldn't swim, he could have basically held himself above the water with by just forming an O with his arms and kick the water a bit...
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Old 2020-10-15, 19:24   Link #62
Blueknight78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
So, maybe I'm wrong but...
It looks like Nana covered parts of the still frozen river with soil to make it look like he stood on shallow ground. When he travelled back in time, he landed on water and drowned because he couldn't swim.

But... The River didn't appear to be THAT wide, and barely had a flow... Shouldn't he have made it to either side of the shore, anyway? I mean even though he couldn't swim, he could have basically held himself above the water with by just forming an O with his arms and kick the water a bit...
the thing is which is he also was "afraid" of the water, not just not knowing how to swin, which also can lead the person to just being unable to do anything than panic and die, because he was too scared to think in try to do anything then his body just "freeze when in panic.
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Old 2020-10-15, 19:34   Link #63
BWTraveller
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
So, maybe I'm wrong but...
It looks like Nana covered parts of the still frozen river with soil to make it look like he stood on shallow ground. When he travelled back in time, he landed on water and drowned because he couldn't swim.

But... The River didn't appear to be THAT wide, and barely had a flow... Shouldn't he have made it to either side of the shore, anyway? I mean even though he couldn't swim, he could have basically held himself above the water with by just forming an O with his arms and kick the water a bit...
Forget that jumping back exhausts him? This was a very long jump. Not only can he not swim (which, BTW, generally doesn't result so much in a person flapping around on the surface so much as sinking without warning), but he was exhausted and out of breath. He desperately needed air and none was available. What's worse is that it is, indeed, a river, not ocean. When you get ocean water in your lungs it doesn't mess you up too badly because the salt makes it harder to absorb, so you end up just slowly suffocating until you die or get saved; from what I've heard fresh water actually gets into your blood and screws up the blood cells, creating a greater shock and more danger. In short, we'd have a panicking guy who can't swim, desperately needs air immediately but can't get any, and, once he inhales some water, will be in a very bad state. I'd say it's quite reasonable that he'd drown before he could make it to safety.
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Old 2020-10-15, 21:45   Link #64
serenade_beta
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Originally Posted by VDZ View Post
Actually, the manga author is not some no-name mangaka, it's Looseboy, the writer of the acclaimed visual novels G-Senjou no Maou and Sharin no Kuni. (However, it is true that his works is sometimes criticized for having plot holes (I personally though G-Senjou's big twist was really dumb), and his last visual novel Boku no Hitori Sensou had mediocre reception.)
And this is where he ends up, so... alas. Same with people like Maeda, just because they used to make great stories doesn't mean they will retain that ability forever.
I like G-Senjou as much as the next guy and will give him at that time, credit, yeah.
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Old 2020-10-16, 17:18   Link #65
Jan-Poo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AC-Phoenix View Post
So, maybe I'm wrong but...
It looks like Nana covered parts of the still frozen river with soil to make it look like he stood on shallow ground. When he travelled back in time, he landed on water and drowned because he couldn't swim.

But... The River didn't appear to be THAT wide, and barely had a flow... Shouldn't he have made it to either side of the shore, anyway? I mean even though he couldn't swim, he could have basically held himself above the water with by just forming an O with his arms and kick the water a bit...
I can only assume that the moment he found himself in water he panicked and immediately jumped back to the present, only to find himself trapped inside a frozen lake.

What really doesn't make sense is how inconsistently the time travel was handled.

If the power is that he jumps back in time and changes the timeline, then everything should be adjusted according to that timeline, I.E. the glass didn't spill any water, but people also should no longer have any memory of the spilled water.

Also people should have memory of him messing with the past, but that's not what happens otherwise they would all know his actual power... except for one part where Nana remembers seeing him in the past. So she got the updated memories of spotting him while he was witnessing her at the cliff with her first victim, but she never got the updated memories of him preventing the glass from being spilled.

Also if he immediately jumps back to the present the moment he's seen, then I wonder how he could change the glass spilling that literally happened in front of Nana's eyes, as well as the whole fight that he broke at the beginning while everyone was looking at the scene from multiple directions.
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Old 2020-10-16, 18:26   Link #66
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
What really doesn't make sense is how inconsistently the time travel was handled.
It's not inconsistent. It has some weird rules, but it's always the same rules. When he changed something in the past, the new timeline didn't completely overwrite the old one, it was more like it got added to it, resulting in a mix of both timelines. That's why Nana could remember that she had pushed the glass of water, for instance.

So yeah, weird rules, but not inconsistent.
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Old 2020-10-16, 22:11   Link #67
VDZ
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Also if he immediately jumps back to the present the moment he's seen, then I wonder how he could change the glass spilling that literally happened in front of Nana's eyes, as well as the whole fight that he broke at the beginning while everyone was looking at the scene from multiple directions.
It wasn't just being seen, it was eye contact (IIRC, very specifically being looked at at least). That didn't happen in the other cases.
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Old 2020-10-17, 07:49   Link #68
Jan-Poo
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
It's not inconsistent. It has some weird rules, but it's always the same rules. When he changed something in the past, the new timeline didn't completely overwrite the old one, it was more like it got added to it, resulting in a mix of both timelines. That's why Nana could remember that she had pushed the glass of water, for instance.

So yeah, weird rules, but not inconsistent.
Let's say it consistently works that way. Then when he broke the fight, people would have both the memories of him not breaking the fight and the memories of him breaking the fight.

That is inconsistent with the fact that they mistakenly believed he had the power to stop time. If someone stops time, you simply don't notice and are never aware of what they do during the stopped time, you just see the results afterwards without witnessing how it happened. In the specific case they believed he stopped time because Moguo was punched, but they never saw the moment he actually punched him, thus they assumed he did it during the stopped time. This misunderstanding could never be possible if they instead had the memories of the punch happening in normal time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDZ View Post
It wasn't just being seen, it was eye contact (IIRC, very specifically being looked at at least). That didn't happen in the other cases.
Eye contact could be easily avoided by the time traveler himself, but I guess that works if he needs to be the focus of another person's attention.
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Old 2020-10-17, 12:10   Link #69
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Let's say it consistently works that way. Then when he broke the fight, people would have both the memories of him not breaking the fight and the memories of him breaking the fight.
I don't think so. The way I see it, he went back in time when fire dude was about to punch the other kid, then got close to them without anyone realizing it (because the attention of everyone was on the fire dude messing around), then he punched the fire dude, and then went back to the present right away, before people could actually pay solid attention to him and realize what he had done.

So, everything is consistent. What people remember from the first timeline is that fire dude was about to punch the other kid. And what they remember from the new timeline is that someone punched fire dude before he could punch the kid. But they don't know who punched fire dude because he jumped back to the present before they could pay attention to him.
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Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2020-10-17 at 12:22.
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Old 2020-10-18, 07:35   Link #70
Jan-Poo
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
So, everything is consistent. What people remember from the first timeline is that fire dude was about to punch the other kid. And what they remember from the new timeline is that someone punched fire dude before he could punch the kid. But they don't know who punched fire dude because he jumped back to the present before they could pay attention to him.

Unless you are a ninja, you can't possibly punch someone without anyone realizing you are even there.

And besides, having conflicting memories is not something that can be explained with stopped time. According to you they should have both the memories where Moguo grabbed the other guy by his tie and a memory where Moguo was punched before he could do that. Nana only seem to have the memory of the former, otherwise she wouldn't even need to reason on the implausibility of the time traveler adjusting that tie, she would simply remember the tie wasn't messed up to begin with.
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Old 2020-10-18, 08:00   Link #71
Kazu-kun
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Originally Posted by Jan-Poo View Post
Unless you are a ninja, you can't possibly punch someone without anyone realizing you are even there.
If he jumped back right after punching him, no one would realize it unless they saw him beforehand, but everyone was paying attention to Moguo instead.

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Nana only seem to have the memory of the former
No, she had both, which is why she knew it wasn't just stopping time. The glass of water just confirmed what she already knew.

Quote:
having conflicting memories is not something that can be explained with stopped time.
That's the point. Everyone else believed it was stopping time because they didn't put too much thought into it, but it should have been clear to everyone that wasn't the case.
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Old 2020-10-18, 09:05   Link #72
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post


That's the point. Everyone else believed it was stopping time because they didn't put too much thought into it, but it should have been clear to everyone that wasn't the case.
And apart from the boring plot this is the story's worst problem. Nana is not smart, everyone else is stupid.
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Old 2020-10-18, 09:40   Link #73
Kazu-kun
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I'd say she's smart enough. For instance, I would have never thought of using the frozen lake to murder the time traveler if I was in her place. It was really cleaver.

I do agree everyone else is kinda stupid, but they're just kids so it's to be expected.

In any case, if you think the plot is boring, why are you even watching?
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Old 2020-10-18, 09:55   Link #74
Magewolf
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I'd say she's smart enough. For instance, I would have never thought of using the frozen lake to murder the time traveler if I was in her place. It was really cleaver.

I do agree everyone else is kinda stupid, but they're just kids so it's to be expected.

In any case, if you think the plot is boring, why are you even watching?
I am not anymore. I have read some of the manga and I watched a couple of episodes to see if this was one of the rare adaptions to improve on the original.
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Old 2020-10-18, 10:35   Link #75
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Originally Posted by Kazu-kun View Post
I do agree everyone else is kinda stupid, but they're just kids so it's to be expected.
To be fair, I wouldn't call them stupid just because they couldn't figure the trick out. Unless you are really alert, if you have impressions of two possible timelines, but one of them matches up with what your present perception and the other doesn't, in a flash you'll go with the one that seems to match reality and the other one gets dumped as a weird flash of imagination.
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Old 2020-10-18, 11:32   Link #76
stray
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I think the only reason Nana "remembered" 2 timelines is because he was explaining what he was doing as he went back in time. Its possible short hops and long hops work differently too but he was the 'murder of the week' so its honestly not worth it to think about it too much.

Regardless, it looks like we have this series "L" character. Invincibility (or maybe its closer to immortality) going to be a tough nut to crack.
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Old 2020-10-18, 12:16   Link #77
Blueknight78
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yeah finally nana worst nightmare come, the "invencible guy", how you can "kill" someone which can't be "killed", he is literally a "wolverine 2.0, he can heal even more fast than wolverine and while he is funny and trying to be "friend with nana" he is really smarth and cunning and can easy find about nana if she don't double her caution around him.
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Old 2020-10-18, 14:00   Link #78
Marina2
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Wolverine can be killed by drowning (While he can regenerate, he will still die if he can't breath) but even If he invincible as in "immortal", freeze him in the ice will still work. (Ability that change target property, like turn something into a stone will also work)
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Old 2020-10-18, 14:30   Link #79
Blueknight78
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Wolverine can be killed by drowning (While he can regenerate, he will still die if he can't breath) but even If he invincible as in "immortal", freeze him in the ice will still work. (Ability that change target property, like turn something into a stone will also work)
well that is why i told which he is a wolvering 2.0, because he is even more OP than wolverine his "Self Healing power" is even more OP, let's maybe put him on "hulk level" or even above when comes "to healing and regenerate self, he is literally immortal, freezen him would at best "keep him trapped" not "kill him the same goes "try to turn him in stone his "healing power would not allow, at best you could "cover him with stone or steel or something to keep him "forever locked" but never killed then one day after many and many years he could escape.
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Old 2020-10-18, 15:29   Link #80
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Depending on what type of immortality he has (his seems to be the regenerative type) there are quite a few ways around it.

Not having a sense of smell is one thing, but I wonder if his ability affects his age as well. There are a few quirks he has which makes me suspect that may be the case like him calling Nana "kid", thinking she would like to play with dolls, prefering retro games, and being out of touch with slang. The last two could just be personality quirks though.
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