Sword Art Online - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

[Nezu]

We shall just have to respectfully agree to disagree. Human nature being what it is, you'd have to pretty much lobotomize humanity to make fanservice both unneeded and unwanted.

[Krono]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

I'm going to assume that, based on the delay in opening the gate (from when we saw her figure it out) she picked her time carefully, understanding his schedule and when he usually shows up, and assuming the gate stays open maybe she's planning to return before his next usual check-up.

Originally Posted by MasterVampire

Why did Asuna choose to escape now?

Wouldn't it be best for her to escape at night when that guy keeping her there is alseep in the real world?

Originally Posted by Nezu

Keep in mind that things probably happen that we don't see, and for all we know she just recently had a visit from Sugou. If so, that makes this a perfect time to try and escape because she probably wouldn't have him visit again too soon. It's pure speculation, of course, but it's certainly the way I'd do it of I were in a similar situation. Otherwise you risk him showing up and catching you.

People seem to forget that this arc is running on a much shorter stretch of time than the Aincrad arc did. There aren't any multi-day jumps in time thus far. Suguha and Kirito have been continuously logged in for something like 10+ hours since they met to leave for the World Tree. A couple episodes ago, when Oberon was last with Asuna, Lyfa logged out to shower and eat and it was early evening. Last episode, Lyfa logged out to check with Recon, and it was late at night. So Asuna leaving her cell just after Salamander was thwarted should work out to something like 2-3 am in the real world.

[Somnus]

Originally Posted by Nezu

Oh, I know what they were asking, that's why I answered as I did. I personally like some fan service, and it doesn't hurt SAO to have it, so I don't think it would improve it at all if it were all cut out. I was just pointing out that it's realistic to HAVE it because all MMO's do.

Originally Posted by Tsundere Louise

Well, in my opinion it would be better if t hey would break through that "because all MMO's do" and make one that doesn't need some boobs and panties to earn more viewers...

I'd have to agree with Nezu on this one. Out of all the shows with their countless combinations of ridiculous situations/stretches of imaginations this is one environment where the obvious "fanservice" (within the MMO) actually fits well with the medium they're mimicking. There are very few (if any) games nowadays that don't include sexual appeal towards their target audience to try to sell more. It's just a good marketing scheme that works, and in the end that's all mass media/entertainment is. A business.

So although I do agree Louise that it's definitely a breathe of fresh air to watch those high quality shows that don't even need to come close to relying on fanservice to tell their stories, this is the wrong one to ask that question with. Especially with all the talk when SAO first started about how it mimics the style of the older MMOs. I can't tell you how many times I'd picked up a box of Everquest because I thought that blonde girl in blue (pretty much the EQ icon) was really hot.

[Oroboro]

Nothing against the fanservice, but the "It's an MMO" argument falls a bit short, considering there was next to none in the SAO arc proper, and the majority of the fanservice from this arc has been from Suguha in the real world.

[Dengar]

In the SAO arc everyone looked like they did IRL though.

[Rising Dragon]

Originally Posted by Dengar

In the SAO arc everyone looked like they did IRL though.

Silica would've had those skirt troubles regardless of what she looked like as a female in SAO. ._.

[HandofFate]

angle fanservice butt and boob shots? meh, not a big deal.

I barely even consider it fanservice. Now if we actually got panty shots and hotsprings in Alfhelm Online, maybe it be an issue. But 'creative' angles isn't something to go insane about.

[Kizoku Keenan]

Originally Posted by Insane

Somehow the very last scene when Asuna managed to break out from her jail seems kinda cheap for me. I mean, wasn't there any GM around to watch her during that time?.

who is to say that the GM's want her to break out *mind blown*

[Klashikari]

Actually, I don't even get why you would need GM: why isn't there any notification program that would tell Sugou and/or GM that Asuna's location is -outside- of the cage the very moment she steps outside?
Sure, her escape is meaningless if she can't log out, meaning no one can actually do a thing about it, but should she meet players and whatnot, it would foil their plans to the drain.

Oh well, that's Sugou alright, it doesn't even make sense for him to log Asuna as a "free NPC" in a jailed location, while he can just lock her out like the 300 other players (unless all of them are in a cage like Asuna's, which would make Sugou even creepier and more stupid than he already is).

[Rising Dragon]

Definitely a pride thing on Sugou's part. He probably never expected a loophole like that mirror for the restriction he placed on Asuna's vision of the key panel.

[Klashikari]

The only good explanation is that Sugou wants to torment Asuna, "maybe" having her submitting to him before the brainwashing. So he is just relishing her as a live trophy before commiting his "masterpiece plan", that's why I guess trying to put some sense in this setup is meaningless by now OTZ

[don_Durandal]

Having a warning system for when Asuna leaves the cage would be of little use if Sugou is asleep or not wearing his amusphere. He is just a human after all; he needs to sleep at some point, and has an important job which means he'll be busy not being in the game or behind a computer most of the time.
It actually looks in the episode like Asuna was waiting for the moment when she knew she could leave without Oberon appearing at some point.

And that's considering Sugou knows there's a way to escape the cage. So far Asuna's been locked in there for two months and is still there. There's little reason for him to be on guard or expect her to break out now after all this time.


As with most supposed "plot holes" in this series, one can easily figure out dozens of explanations if one just tries to think it through.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Actually, I don't even get why you would need GM: why isn't there any notification program that would tell Sugou and/or GM that Asuna's location is -outside- of the cage the very moment she steps outside?
Sure, her escape is meaningless if she can't log out, meaning no one can actually do a thing about it, but should she meet players and whatnot, it would foil their plans to the drain.

Oh well, that's Sugou alright, it doesn't even make sense for him to log Asuna as a "free NPC" in a jailed location, while he can just lock her out like the 300 other players (unless all of them are in a cage like Asuna's, which would make Sugou even creepier and more stupid than he already is).

http://www.eviloverlord.com/lists/overlord.html

The only rules Sugou hasn't broken is ones that doesn't apply.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by don_Durandal

Having a warning system for when Asuna leaves the cage would be of little use if Sugou is asleep or not wearing his amusphere. He is just a human after all; he needs to sleep at some point, and has an important job which means he'll be busy not being in the game or behind a computer most of the time.
It actually looks in the episode like Asuna was waiting for the moment when she knew she could leave without Oberon appearing at some point.

Sugou isn't working alone, is he? I find it extremely dubious to be on such scheme with assistants and collegues and yet, having the task being so single handled that makes the setup even more akin to forced setup.
By the way, Screw warning system, he could potentially make a code that would paralyze her the moment she tries to get out and/or auto teleport. Kayaba could at least make a manual full paralyze, so it isn't like having a trigger would be hard to code. And unlike the paralyzing feature, having a permanent teleport would be even less a pain to do, and would have hardly any loophole, unless Asuna manages to "change her ID".

And he is so busy that he actually goes around and doing the pervert.
More seriously, there are so many holes in his security system, layout and own behaviour that there is no logical explanation for that beyond 1) character stupidity 2) author's necessity to have opening for the hero to barge in.

And that's considering Sugou knows there's a way to escape the cage. So far Asuna's been locked in there for two months and is still there. There's little reason for him to be on guard or expect her to break out now after all this time.

It is exactly because she knows Kirito is around that he should be more on his guard. Really, the fact the time limit is approaching would be the actual reason to be even all more cautious. There is no reason to relax your guard for that kind of scheme, and even less reason to rely on a sleazy emprisonment method, which has absolutely ridiculous "real life based" system, than really using all security system at his disposal to not screw up. That's textbook "EVIL VILLAIN" forced to do the biggest goofy mistake to have the hero turning the tables.

As with most supposed "plot holes" in this series, one can easily figure out dozens of explanations if one just tries to think it through.

Sure, you can have explanations for everything, but I doubt you can explain everything with the most logical reasons at hand. Honestly, there is a fair reason why Sugou is absolutely not a credible villain. He is borderline a parody in fact.

[Rising Dragon]

Well, that's the funny thing about games, concerning what you said about holes in the security system. You gotta actively work out the bugs, and in a game that revolves around PVP, who do you have on hand to beta test a jail system? I mean the punishment system for a troublesome player in ALO is to banish him from his or her native territory and make them free game for anyone who wants to attack them.

Now that I think about it, ALO's jail system is probably the same as SAO's jail system. And considering how Kayaba wanted to make a real world and all in the guise of a game system, it's entirely possible that the jail has viable flaws for escaping--take the Elder Scrolls games; you can get thrown in jail for breaking the law in those games and there's active ways where you can break out of jail and escape. Sugou might not realize that the jail system is like that, if he is using an in-game jail system.

[Bahamut]

...i hope Sugou is actually being used instead at the end...
...which may or may not lead to a more greater sinister plan...

...as it stands it is a good thing he doesnt appear as much as his counterpart Noumi...
...because with the other guy you could always hustle or beat the s**t out of that f***face...
...but Sugou...you will be facing lawsuits and online vengeance doesnt cut it...

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

Sugou isn't working alone, is he? I find it extremely dubious to be on such scheme with assistants and collegues and yet, having the task being so single handled that makes the setup even more akin to forced setup.

I've always assumed that he is working more-or-less alone as far as Asuna is concerned. The other ~249 prisoners are being experimented on, but he seems to want to deal with Asuna personally. Her whole imprisonment thing also seems to only be for his own benefit to torment her. So yeah, whether his assistants know about it or not, I don't think we can assume that anyone else has anything to do with it, nor that he would allow anyone else to guard her (because they might do something against his will in his absence).

Originally Posted by Klashikari

By the way, Screw warning system, he could potentially make a code that would paralyze her the moment she tries to get out and/or auto teleport. Kayaba could at least make a manual full paralyze, so it isn't like having a trigger would be hard to code. And unlike the paralyzing feature, having a permanent teleport would be even less a pain to do, and would have hardly any loophole, unless Asuna manages to "change her ID".

Well, TBD if any sort of limitations exist, but so far Sugou has seemed to not want to do anything save lock her in that cage, despite having every opportunity to use backhanded methods to persuade her to do his bidding. So for him to not place any external limits on her is within his characterization... even if that makes him a really, really stupid villain (and I'd never argue otherwise -- he's an arrogant overconfident idiot, and has been from day one).

I do think that, should she be caught this time, more "real" restrictions will be placed on her, but I also agree with the comment that it's because she hasn't done anything for two months (and he's so close to his goal) that he has probably let his guard down.

Originally Posted by Klashikari

It is exactly because she knows Kirito is around that he should be more on his guard. Really, the fact the time limit is approaching would be the actual reason to be even all more cautious.

When he revealed this information to Asuna, he didn't seem to clue in at all about what relevance this would have to her, and Asuna was careful to not show any glimmer of hope either. And, besides that, he apparently doesn't yet know that Kirito is actually in the game -- his comment earlier was that he doubted Kazuto would even have the courage to don the helmet again.

(And again, you might think that people would get more cautious as they get closer to their goal, but I'm not sure that actual human behaviour bears that out. This sort of reminds me of how most accidents occur within 5 minutes of someone's house. I think people can get more careless when they're approaching their destination because their mind starts focusing on what's ahead more than what's at hand.)


I do think the whole point of this arc as far as Sugou is concerned is that he will be undone by his own arrogance and stupidity. I suppose in that sense they're making a contrast to Kayaba. Sugou's basically a hack that latched on to someone else's research and figured out something marketable, and now thinks himself more powerful than the gods. But he's just an idiot. (And of course it's a benefit to us and to the story that he's such an idiot. That's why I said in the past that I can't really bring myself to hate him or "rage" at him as others do. He's just that stupid.)

[HandofFate]

I too feel Sugou is probably working alone. The rest of the team have no idea he's secretly experimenting on 300 players hoping sell it all off to a military and line his own personal pocket at the end of it all. Especially if its the same type of nameless team/company that had no idea Kayaba was planning from the beginning to trap 10,000 players in a death game.

Sugou just seems too full of himself, he seems to have no sense of urgency of caution at all. He believes he has it in the bag. He just sees Kazuto as a dumb 16 year old(?) kid.

[Clarste]

Having a stupid villain is not a plothole, nor is it a sign of bad writing. He's just... a stupid villain who thinks he's more in control than he is. You don't have to like him (does anyone like him as a villain?), or hate him, or even pity him. He's just stupid. I suppose it might be amusing to speculate what you would do in his situation, although the idea of putting yourself in the shoes of a power-hungry pseudo-rapist is a bit creepy, but the show has given us nothing to indicate that he's a clever villain, and plenty of things to indicate that he's not. So he's not. There we go.

If you don't mind TvTropes links, he's a Smug Snake.

[Bahamut]

...Sugou is what i like to categorise as the jack*** archetype...
...they are those who makes you facepalm and hate their guts...
...they usually do not deem worthy enough to be acknowledged yet they always seem to be blessed with the hands of God to be able to cause problems at the right moment...only to crash and burn at the end...with no idea what caused their own demise...