Steins;Gate - Episode 20 Discussion / Poll

[Malkuth]

These last two episodes are some of the best episodes I have watched in my life... excellent atmosphere, acting, directing, built-up, resolution... ah! nice stuff

[Eater of All]

Originally Posted by Jean Claymore

Hey, something beats me... if in the original world line they could save Kurisu by Okabe letting Daru know about her death with its D-mail, can't they possibly create other logical D-Mails to save Mayuri to move on to other worldlines which is not either alpha or beta they're in? I know Mayuri's death was certain, so she died in whatever circumstances Okabe D-mailed, but I feel strange that Kurisu was saved by that very first D-mail while they can't save Mayuri whatever Okabe does. I guess the most logical way is to find and send other coherent D-mails in order to save Mayuri and fight the SERNs back.

Btw, have Mister Braun and Moeka been saved by that D-mail or are they at the same situation as Mayuri? Man, I really should get this VN thing asap

Apparently Okarin's first D-mail changed the worldline from alpha to beta, but this was not due to the D-mail itself: it was because of the fact that SERN detected it. Suzuha mentioned that the most recent major worldline break point is 2010, when the microwave was first invented. The factor that seperates the alpha from the beta is whether or not SERN detects it. The content of Okarin's first D-mail is thus unimportant.

There's a few assumptions in there, but I think that's roughly what happened.

[matapat]

Another great episode of Steins;Gate, glad that they eventually got back to the original major plot point of Kurisu's death at the start of the series and how (or even if) Okabe can work his way around it saving Kurisu & Mayuri in the process and still thwart SERN.

Spoiler for And I'm with Triple R on this:

regarding the differences from the VN, Steins Gate has done a great job with it's science fiction realism themes and I'm glad they changed that plot point with Nae. The whole "PSYCHO LOLI OUT OF NOWHERE" thing just screams School Days-esque VN Bad End nonsense that would have been rather jarring with the mood the anime has had to this point.

Really hope the show finishes as well as these last two episodes have gone. This is one of the best anime series climaxes I've ever seen.

[miroku2192]

Originally Posted by Dextro

That's the million dollar question that the anime has made a very good job of keeping for the big finale. I personally don't think that the timeline where it all started is the safe timeline cause otherwise there wouldn't have been a time machine popping up in the roof now would it?

If we assume that the timeline from episode one is the alpha timeline then that means that Suzuha was wrong and the alpha timeline isn't the safe one and Okabe will need to find another gamma line where both Kurisu and Mayuri are safe (with bonus points if SERN doesn't win in the end).

That's a good point about Suzuha being around, that if that was the supposed "safe timeline," then she wouldn't be there. It was just that I remember seeing the number shift from 1. something to .56 or something around there. That's why I assumed that was supposed to be the safe timeline.

Gah, you are right though, they certainly have done a good job. I still can't figure out the ending :X

[Riga92]

Episode 21 preview. Who will Okabe choose?

[Crontica]

I've got a bad feeling about this, depending on what the divergence timer has outputted so far, does things get better if the numbers go up or down?

[shinigami99]

I now went to watch that scene in episode 1 where Kurisu died. That scream that Okabe and Mayushi heard was honestly one of the most heart-wrenching ones ever. Even more so now that we can figure out why it was like that, as well as who it inevitably was.

[Dawnstorm]

Originally Posted by Raiga

Speaking of which people here are ridiculously good at theorizing. Who came up with the Ferdinand Braun one again? o__o

Concerted effort, back in May, at least that's when I first heard that speculation.

***

Btw, I thought the dragonflies in the Mr. Braun scene were a nice touch. Something animated that goes about its life as usual to counterbalance the tragedy and tells you that life goes on. It's that sort of detail that really gets to me.

[Archon_Wing]

Sweet episode, I felt the moments when Braun shoots Moeka and himself were truly disturbing, but I guess the buildup was kinda missing and it's all over in 1 episode, leading me to wonder where everything falls into this.

So they can go back to the beginning where sern never takes over and Mayuri can live. But Kurisu is gonna die. Yikes, with only 4 episodes can they really make the ending complete?

[Sheba]

my opinion on the changes from the VN pointed out by the players:

Spoiler:

If one wanted yandere Nae to work, the anime should have been 26 episodes instead of 24 to allow proper buildup and foreshadowing in former episodes, like dropping hints about a strange behavior from Nae. As the anime had been presented now, it would not have been possible to pull it off without looking like an asspull.

[houkoholic]

Originally Posted by Sheba

my opinion on the changes from the VN pointed out by the players:

Spoiler:

If one wanted yandere Nae to work, the anime should have been 26 episodes instead of 24 to allow proper buildup and foreshadowing in former episodes, like dropping hints about a strange behavior from Nae. As the anime had been presented now, it would not have been possible to pull it off without looking like an asspull.

Spoiler for game spoilers:

You are right that if they want to do it they would need 1 to 2 more episodes.
Though even in the VN there is no foreshadowing to Nae's behaviour either - her going insane is triggered solely by her witnessing her father committing suicide in front of Moeka and Okabe, so theoretically if Okabe and Moeka didn't go meet FB face to face the Butterfly Effect won't kick in for her to go insane, and only in this timeline did she go insane because in the other time lines SERN never got the IBN5100 (Ruka's timeline it broke, Feliyus one her father sold it a long time ago, Suzuha's one she never got her hand on it to hand it down in the past), so in the other timelines FB and Moeka never completed their primary mission thus they never needed to die.

[Sheba]

Thanks for the clarification.

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by Eater of All

Apparently Okarin's first D-mail changed the worldline from alpha to beta, but this was not due to the D-mail itself: it was because of the fact that SERN detected it. Suzuha mentioned that the most recent major worldline break point is 2010, when the microwave was first invented. The factor that seperates the alpha from the beta is whether or not SERN detects it. The content of Okarin's first D-mail is thus unimportant.

There's a few assumptions in there, but I think that's roughly what happened.

This makes sense to me actually. So in the end, it doesn't come down to undoing the first D-mail itself, but undoing the consequences. If that is so, then it's not about undoing the D-mail as that would still entail sending another D-mail, but sending it while not getting caught, and now that they have the IBN 5100, it's perfectly possible to do that. It might even allow them to enter into a gamma worldline, which isn't entirely impossible. The divergence would need to be much greater than 1 on the other hand.

That being said, this was another great episode. Everything about it was stunningly perfect. The stake-out scene which led to the tailing, the conversation they had with Mr. Braun and the eventual death of both Moeka and Braun. I do wonder as well if Mr. Braun's fate was to also die on that day in that worldline, but one D-mail from his phone and it was done. Okabe's expression when he realized he still had one more D-mail to undo, which would lead to Kurisu's death, was as if the Grim Reaper had just slapped him in the face. Wonderful. 10/10

[Kirroha]

This episode was rather emotionally packed, but a bit too rushed for me to enjoy it. I've read some earlier comments and I really want to see crazy Nae. After all, I was pretty freaked out by her the first time she Nice-Train'd Mayuri onto the tracks.

[User165949]

I suppose this is really a good moment for going back to watch again the first episode, aptly named along the lines of "prelude to a beginning and an end".

[Sakaraski]

Hi, I'm new here..I have bad grammer so excuse me just wanted to share my opinion and this episode was awesome and the end of the episode I got creeped out cause Kurisu was smiling knowing that canceling the first D mail would mean her death... D;

[ninryu]

Only four episodes til the end. How the hell Okarin is going to warp this up?!

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Archon_Wing

So they can go back to the beginning where sern never takes over and Mayuri can live. But Kurisu is gonna die. Yikes, with only 4 episodes can they really make the ending complete?

If they space it all out right, four episodes would be just the right number to pull of the ending. Have Okabe agonize over his decision in episode 21, make the decision in episode 22/end of episode 21, and then spend the last two episodes dealing with the fallout of that decision.

[ookamigirl]

So Moeka finally spilled the beans about IBN 5100. I was totally surprised to see Mr. Braun was involved with all of this! Guess no one is as they seem. This is getting even more complicated since more people have a tendency to die as a direct consequence of Okabe's playing around with changing history. Guess Okabe can't save everyone even if he reverses the whole process...

[Bafflement]

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

If they space it all out right, four episodes would be just the right number to pull of the ending. Have Okabe agonize over his decision in episode 21, make the decision in episode 22/end of episode 21, and then spend the last two episodes dealing with the fallout of that decision.

There's a fair bit left to cover. It's difficult to predict how it will play out, partly because the rules on how the three different methods of time travel interact are unclear and slightly contradictory.

The one thing that is clear is that Okabe will have to jump back and borrow Suzuha's time machine before she leaves, in order to physically revisit the events of the first episode. Apart from that, there are a lot of different ways it could end up going.