Death Note Episode 16 Discussion / Poll

[Xosen]

I really think Light is not acting at the end of the episode. In fact it's the perfect act as he now truly believes what he is saying. Even a lie detector would now show that he is telling the truth, as he now truly believes he is not Kira.

However I still not understand why there has been 15 days without criminal dying. If criminals keep dying, it would also prove that Light is not Kira, so at this point I can only think this was intended to try to mess up L's deductions.

I believe Light is not in danger at the moment, but I really can't imagine how he is going to prove that Misa is not the second Kira......

[monir]

Originally Posted by Xosen

However I still not understand why there has been 15 days without criminal dying.

I think the question of "Why?" has much more easier answer than the question of "how?" How did he manage to kill those people? How did Ryuk help out? If Light indeed looses his memory, how does he plan to recover from his temporary amnesia? How? How? How?

Btw, there were 8 days of interval before the murder start happening. Light put his plan into motion at the 7th day of his confinement. News of people dying were out on the 15th day of their captivity. 15-7=8..

[psycho bolt]

Hmm this episode also made me ponder how will Light get his Death Note back if he lost his memories already.

[Ardea]

Originally Posted by monir

It is most definitely not the imagery. Visual imageries are the main reason a lot of the fans assume Misa was tortured. They saw her all tied up, and because the old man had a syringe on his hand along with some funny looking liquid. Almost all of us have experienced an injection or two in one time or another in our life time. And since it is safe to assume that almost none of us will associate an injection with happy memories, Misa's getting a few shots by the old man is easily explained as torture.. Fact is, if enough attention paid to the spoken dialogues which is the meat of this series, then a lot of the things start making sense. In my humble opinion, the self realization of many of those unsaid things are what drawing so many fans to this show. Fans that are reaching to a conclusion by relying mostly on the visual interpretation of things, will be in for a rude shock when they finally understand how grossly off track they always have been. In fact, that observation has been proven in couple of occasion already.

I feel like whatever I am posting may be misinterpreted, because I feel like I'm debating, which is not my intention!

I just don't feel like interpretations for the show are wrong though, if people hear, read, and see different things. That's all. ^^;

Is it really a rude shock if people discover they are off track? I think that's what makes anything with an element of mystery very enjoyable and engrossing! I wouldn't buy a mystery novel if I could easily guess who the criminal was, nor if everything was clearly what it was.

[monir]

Originally Posted by Ardea

I just don't feel like interpretations for the show are wrong though, if people hear, read, and see different things. That's all. ^^;

I agree! That's probably the reason why I like arguing about such things, mind you, nothing serious other than some playful jabbering.

Is it really a rude shock if people discover they are off track? I think that's what makes anything with an element of mystery very enjoyable and engrossing! I wouldn't buy a mystery novel if I could easily guess who the criminal was, nor if everything was clearly what it was.

My apology. Now that I read my last sentence with the accompanying words "rude shock," it does seem like I'm trying to win an argument here with some choice words. That wasn't my intention at all. I promise I'll behave.

Taht said, I still stand by my understanding that enough hasn't been thrown in our way to give leeway to one of the two possibilities associated with Light's recent behavior: if he is acting, or if he has forgotten. I also don't think Misa was tortured.

[Xosen]

Originally Posted by monir

I think the question of "Why?" has much more easier answer than the question of "how?" How did he manage to kill those people? How did Ryuk help out? If Light indeed looses his memory, how does he plan to recover from his temporary amnesia? How? How? How?

I can't see Ryuk being part of the plan. He has never tried to help Light, except when finding the cameras, but that was because he wanted some juicy apples... ^_^

So at this point I believe it's Rem who is doing the killing, and who will give him Misa's death note once Light is set free. Will he recover his memories once he is in possession of a death note? Than I don't know......

[Scep]

Ryuk cant get apples on his own anyway. Not unless some apple on the fruit stall starts disappearing mysteriously. Rem i believe has left the story already. Since misa's death note is with rem, then i get a wierd feeling that the story will take a turn towards the death note entering a 3rd person's hands, and light trying to get that death note. The whole thing is a very confusing concept, since light, being not kira anymore, shouldnt have any memories of a death note, thus he wouldnt be able to get the death note, but he cant just lose his death note like that, he is the protagonist after all :/

[Xosen]

Originally Posted by sceptileex

Ryuk cant get apples on his own anyway. Not unless some apple on the fruit stall starts disappearing mysteriously. Rem i believe has left the story already. Since misa's death note is with rem, then i get a wierd feeling that the story will take a turn towards the death note entering a 3rd person's hands, and light trying to get that death note. The whole thing is a very confusing concept, since light, being not kira anymore, shouldnt have any memories of a death note, thus he wouldnt be able to get the death note, but he cant just lose his death note like that, he is the protagonist after all :/

IIRC Ryuk has to be near Light while he is the owner of his Death Note, so he can't go to find some apples. Now he can go to an apple tree and eat some apples :P Maybe I'm wrong....

Rem is still an important part of the story. Light will die if Misa is not saved, so Rem has to be somewhere watching whats happening.... well, maybe not near, Rem can still watch what's happening from the Shinigami's world, no?

I can't see Light trusting a third person, or Rem giving Misa's death note to someone different than Light.... maybe Ryuk will give his Death Note to someone else, as enjoys watching interesting humans....

[Antonik]

Originally Posted by monir

I agree! That's probably the reason why I like arguing about such things, mind you, nothing serious other than some playful jabbering.


My apology. Now that I read my last sentence with the accompanying words "rude shock," it does seem like I'm trying to win an argument here with some choice words. That wasn't my intention at all. I promise I'll behave.

Taht said, I still stand by my understanding that enough hasn't been thrown in our way to give leeway to one of the two possibilities associated with Light's recent behavior: if he is acting, or if he has forgotten. I also don't think Misa was tortured.

I believe she was tortured. I mean she didn't care for her well being as long as Light was happy, and I think she believed her Knight in shining armor would rescue her. But once we see her in that confinement shes broken and asks Rem to kill her, and in parts she was moaning :-D which was missing when her memories were erased. Theres also the line where L tell the old guy to use any means necessary to get her to talk, and I think it was more of an order rather than a scare tactic.

I really think theres enough proof (Don't know if i can call it that) to show that she indeed was tortured.

But but actually If Light was able to remember that he himself said that he was Kira, and he though someone was controlling him. Then I would say that Misa would remmember being tortured, but since she wasn't worried about Stalker-san hurting her at first, it would be relative safe to assume she was not hurt by L but by the Death Note related stuff that she forgot, and all that was used on her were truth serums if that


It could go either way since like you said we don't know the extent of the memory loss inhibited by Light and Misa.

Originally Posted by Xosen

IIRC Ryuk has to be near Light while he is the owner of his Death Note, so he can't go to find some apples. Now he can go to an apple tree and eat some apples :P Maybe I'm wrong....

Rem is still an important part of the story. Light will die if Misa is not saved, so Rem has to be somewhere watching whats happening.... well, maybe not near, Rem can still watch what's happening from the Shinigami's world, no?

I can't see Light trusting a third person, or Rem giving Misa's death note to someone different than Light.... maybe Ryuk will give his Death Note to someone else, as enjoys watching interesting humans....

I believe that at the begining Ryuk explained that he doesn't have to be with Light, but he wants to see what happened to him as long as he had the Death Note. There is no rule that a Shinigami has to stay with a human who has a Death Note.

[Xosen]

Originally Posted by Antonik

I believe that at the begining Ryuk explained that he doesn't have to be with Light, but he wants to see what happened to him as long as he had the Death Note. There is no rule that a Shinigami has to stay with a human who has a Death Note.

Just checked it. In episode 3, around minute 15:30, Ryuk tells Light that he has to be near while Light owns the Death Note.

[noir senshi]

Episode 15 and 16 has made me realise that both Light and L are despicable but for some reason I very much dislike, perhaps even hate, L. The reason is because of his torturing of Misa. "You may use dubious methods...", that really pissed me off.

[Jaden]

Okay, finally watched this episode, was waiting for the...better...version.
I also don't read manga.

Anyway, this was very interesting. Light discards Rem's/Misa's Death Note. Then he turns himself in telling L he might subconsciously be Kira. L puts him in jail - after all there's nothing to lose and this might truly be a way to close the case.
2 weeks pass and no criminals are judged. It would seem that Light is Kira, but then his plans are set in motion. He officially discards his Death Note&Ryuk and a bunch of criminals are killed by the third Kira. It will be interesting to see who it is, how Light got him/her to play along, how Light got the timing to match so perfectly, and how he's going to reclaim his position as Kira with his mind wiped. Light is at the moment a genuine member of the Kira investigation team...

[Lambda]

Brilliant scheme by Light here, it's amazing how much he gets out of the limited resources available to him.

Spoiler for ep16:

It looks like he's trying to give the impression that Kira is something like a spirit which somehow possesses or gets inside people, and left him after seven days. There are a few possibilities by which he could have arranged the continued killings, by consequences of what he wrote in his death note before burying it, or by arranging it with Rem as part of a scheme which would help Misa. How he intends to arrange the return of his 'Kira-ness', as I assume he wants to, is the most interesting part.

[Antonik]

Originally Posted by Xosen

Just checked it. In episode 3, around minute 15:30, Ryuk tells Light that he has to be near while Light owns the Death Note.

Hmm I could've sworn otherwise, You are right then/

Originally Posted by Lambda

Brilliant scheme by Light here, it's amazing how much he gets out of the limited resources available to him.

Spoiler for ep16:

It looks like he's trying to give the impression that Kira is something like a spirit which somehow possesses or gets inside people, and left him after seven days. There are a few possibilities by which he could have arranged the continued killings, by consequences of what he wrote in his death note before burying it, or by arranging it with Rem as part of a scheme which would help Misa. How he intends to arrange the return of his 'Kira-ness', as I assume he wants to, is the most interesting part.

the 7 days might be significant, as Misa was imprisoned for a week aswell until we saw her talk with Rem and she gave up her note.

[hitokirigirl]

Good Lord, I'm confused as hell, and for some reason, I think Raito is faking his amnesia...

[Guido]

This is the episode that I call the breaking point. The despair and anxiety building up kept me on the very edge of my seat.

For certain we can coclude as of now that Light pawned L's lights.

Spoiler:

But, I do agree with L how would Light would wait between one to two years of imprisonment with the killings stopped from the first day, that would imply that Light's Kira after all.

I can only come up with a definite conclusion to bewilder L that Light was putting up the truth of his act. How? Light came up that Kira developed in his inner psyche and manifests as part of his subsconscious.

That would throw off in and out L of his tracks. He got puzzled and more so to witness that Light was juxtaposing the attitude of his behaviors, which would be something that Kira would never have done.

I do not know if Light alledged to L split personality, and I do not think it would serve for any plausible credibility since a second Kira also exists. It's more that Light went to the extremes for asking of his imprisonment, and L not disclosing any facts from what was happening to the outside world to make L check for himself that Light was afflicted by a wave of lunatic euphoria.

The waiting period was part of the plan. Have L watched Light for seven straight days, then relinquish the Note along with all the memories of the people killed, and stepping out from the darkness with a truly innocent face of naivety which eyes spoke truth on them; a substantial reaction and different from the usual Lightness that L was accustomed to crack his head.

What happens with the killings?

Spoiler:

1. Light accorded with Rem to restart the killings approximately in an agreed time limit after she would not have received news from him. So after 14 days of cut off communication, Rem would start killing criminals.
I do not see any violation to the rules because REM is killing people who have absolutely anything involve with Misa. Besides, Misa has not run the danger of being threatened with death.

2. Or Light planned that one of either two notes be handed to a stranger that shares the same ideals as Kira does. On one side is out of the question that Ryuk would accept such term, since he is neither enemy or ally to Light. On the other side is not feasible for Light to make a third Kira, since it is unpredictable and uncertain how that "X" person would react and other drives and motivations to use the note.

[GriS]

I am also confused... or rather puzzled why Light would just give up ownership of death note.

Originally Posted by Lambda

Brilliant scheme by Light here, it's amazing how much he gets out of the limited resources available to him.

Spoiler for ep16:

It looks like he's trying to give the impression that Kira is something like a spirit which somehow possesses or gets inside people, and left him after seven days. There are a few possibilities by which he could have arranged the continued killings, by consequences of what he wrote in his death note before burying it, or by arranging it with Rem as part of a scheme which would help Misa. How he intends to arrange the return of his 'Kira-ness', as I assume he wants to, is the most interesting part.

Originally Posted by Antonik

the 7 days might be significant, as Misa was imprisoned for a week aswell until we saw her talk with Rem and she gave up her note.

I must say this is really cunning one... if this is indeed true, Light in this case would have fail to convince L.

Spoiler for why L wont be convinced:

if Light is locked in the cell for long period of time, he would have lost track of time as he can't see anything outside. Well actually I don't know if we will also be like that if we are in Light's shoe. But assuming this is true, when L said it has been a week, I believe he is faking it to test this theory of spirit possessions since L would be smart enough to obtain as many details from Misa's happening as possible - sudden change in behaviour after 7 days. Probably he said it 8 days after imprisonment or earlier.

This would instead increase L's suspicion that Light is actually Kira trying to perform another strange but cunning act.

The case of all suspects being killed at 15th day really shock me... although many has listed out the possibilities in this thread, I still can't believe it.

But how will Light get death note back? Even if he write and influence third party's actions, he still must be careful not to include his own name in the death note or else it's game over. It would mean it's really difficult for him to get it back even if third party is instructed to place the note near to Light.

But one possible theory on how to get his note back

Spoiler:

Third person, controlled by Death Note, hand it to Light himself

From the preview and part of epi 16, i think the third person is...

Spoiler:

his own father, it seems they have negligible, if not zero, father-son relationship... probably because Yagami is alway workings and not at home...

Last, I have not read manga, cause I have no interest in reading manga.

[FlashCE]

I gotta say that the anime, up to this point, is WAY superior to both the Death Note live action movies. This is the first episode I've seen since the second movie and Light's expression in this episode is just godly.

[hitokirigirl]

Originally Posted by GriS

From the preview and part of epi 16, i think the third person is...

Spoiler:

his own father, it seems they have negligible, if not zero, father-son relationship... probably because Yagami is alway workings and not at home...

I already pointed that out, in the very beginning, and my comment was........... hum, nevermind...
As you said, their relationship is deprived of any affection. In last episode, Yagami was upset about Raito being suspected, and I think it's a matter of his father pride
rather than concern about his son...

The way Raito said "stubborn" to his dad was very harsh. A well brought-up kid like him would never say such irrespectful word to his elder.

[monir]

Originally Posted by Xosen

Just checked it. In episode 3, around minute 15:30, Ryuk tells Light that he has to be near while Light owns the Death Note.

I've completely forgotten about this. Cookies for you Xosen! This is the first solid fact that supports the assessment that Light's memories associated with the DN may indeed have been wiped clean. Oh my gosh! What an audacious Light!

L took a huge gamble by revealing himself to Light. Light is now gambling with his memories just to mislead L? Incredible! Sorry, if I sound high on caffine, but suddenly the episode 17 can't come soon enough.