Fate/Zero - Episode 23 Discussion / Poll

[Ragna92]

Originally Posted by Endscape

Actually, Gilgamesh can beat Arcueid. Word of God.

He's stronger then 30% Arc, not 100%.

[Thess]

Too lazy to quote.

Re> But spaceship: Gilgamesh isn't moving. The Vimana is. He's the one who has to remain still.

Re> But in UBW: Going into spoiler territory there and, once again (without spoiling anything), nothing there indicates he can fire the swords while he moves. He's pulling them out in those specific scenes he moves.

Read Fate/Prototype Complete Material, where it states that unlike normal Gilgamesh, Prototype Gil's Gate of Babylon can be activated while he moves. Nasu wrote that CM.

Argue with Word of God.

[bhl88]

Originally Posted by LunarMoon

Yep; that's what I was getting at. While being hit multiple times in several vital areas would have resulted in his death, regardless of whether he had managed to hit Gil or not, the manner in which the anime did it made it seem as if he actually had a high chance of getting out of the situation alive, which made it all the more poignant, for me.

Light Novel: To his worthy opponent, whose entire body was skewered from head to toe by the rain of Noble Phantasms, yet who did not stop until thwarted by the Chain of Heaven, the King of Heroes gave his greatest reward - he honored him with true feelings of admiration.

Anime: Hit with two Noble Phantasms and wasn't hit by the rest.


Yeah... it reduced the impact of the battle.

[ChronoReverse]

Originally Posted by Thess

Read Fate/Prototype Complete Material, where it states that unlike normal Gilgamesh, Prototype Gil's Gate of Babylon can be activated while he moves. Nasu wrote that CM.

Argue with Word of God.

That wasn't Prototype material from Nasu. It was the comments of the TRANSLATOR. We've been over this in the Beast's Lair.

Re> But in UBW: Going into spoiler territory there and, once again (without spoiling anything), nothing there indicates he can fire the swords while he moves. He's pulling them out in those specific scenes he moves.

If you read the visual novel, you'll notice that not only are they pulling out swords at each other, but there's a continuous rain of swords being fired endlessly all around them.

Again, there's no indication ever that Gilgamesh can't move and use GoB at the same time.

Re> But spaceship: Gilgamesh isn't moving. The Vimana is. He's the one who has to remain still.

Words fail me here. If Gilgamesh took a leap, if you're right, then he can't use GoB while doing the initial springing motion but while he's soaring through the air he can then fire GoB then?

[Haak]

Originally Posted by bhl88

Light Novel: To his worthy opponent, whose entire body was skewered from head to toe by the rain of Noble Phantasms, yet who did not stop until thwarted by the Chain of Heaven, the King of Heroes gave his greatest reward - he honored him with true feelings of admiration.

Anime: Hit with two Noble Phantasms and wasn't hit by the rest.


Yeah... it reduced the impact of the battle.

To be fair, it would look a bit comical if he was still going despite having a sword through his head...

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Haak

To be fair, it would look a bit comical if he was still going despite having a sword through his head...

it's only a scratch.

[Ithekro]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

it's only a scratch.

That quote suits Lancelot more. (The Black Knight)


As for Gil and moving or not moving while using Gates of Babylon. The implied suggestion is that he cannot move relative to the Gate with firing. but if he's on a moving item (and he always is since the planet is moving) the gate and himself are not moving relative to the object he is "standing on".

No it doesn't make sense...but then when do things make sense in Nasu's universe?

[ChronoReverse]

IIRC, the Prototype Gil's GoB moved with him too so that doesn't mean much =/

[Nausky]

Originally Posted by Thess

His jogging was unintentionally hilarious like Kotomine's. It almost killed the solemn mood of the scene.

Going to post it in case people want to read it. Because it was really beautiful (but clearly difficult to portray):

Spoiler for Fate/Zero Novel Rider's charge:

"Now, Bucephalus, to conquest!"
And so, the King of Conquerors kicked the flanks of his beloved horse, and went off to face his last sprint. Aiming for the bitter enemy waiting for him, he let out a screaming war cry.
He was a strategist. He acknowledged fully the indisputable flow of battle. But 'that' was different from 'this'. The King of Conquerors Alexander could not think of any other prescription other than charging toward the golden Heroic Spirit.
There was no resignation. There was no despair. What was there was only the utter excitement bursting full from his heart.
Strong - he was too strong. The hero who tore apart the world itself was undoubtedly the strongest enemy in Heaven and Earth.
In that case, this man was the last enemy.
He was higher than the peak of the Hindu Kush, hotter than the hot sands of the Mackran - he was the last obstacle in this world. And so, how could the King of Conquerors not challenge it? If he can surpass this, what lay beyond was surely the ends of the world. The faraway dream he had always been seeing was waiting to be fulfilled right now, before his eyes.
"To Philotimo" - he challenged it because it was unreachable; he expressed his conquest, exemplified it, for the sake of the servant who watched over his back.
The King of Heroes, towering over his path, calmly gazed at the challenger, and released the treasures of the vault. Twenty, forty, eighty - a swarm of Noble Phantasms deployed from thin air, shining like so many glittering stars. That light made the King of Conquerors reminiscent of the starry sky of the East far off in the distance that he would look up to.
"AAAALaLaLaLaie!!"
Bellowing with a delight that shook his heart, he rushed on together with his beloved horse.
With haughty growls, the rain of stars approached. Incessantly, mercilessly, the impacts trampled over their bodies. However, that pain was nothing more than a worthless trifle compared to the excitement of this sprint.
There were times when he had succumbed to that sort of faint-heartedness - and yet was not about to reach 'the furthest end'. How foolish. What a disgrace.
The 'end' he had been seeking was now towering over his path. Having crossed countless hills, forded countless rivers, he finally discovered the ending point.
Thus, he would surpass it.
He would step across that enemy.
One step, and one step further. The only thing he had to do was simply repeat that. If he continued to accumulate it, then even that figure far in the distance would most surely be reached by his blade.
The swarm of stars poured on boisterously. In his fury where even his consciousness was prone to recede, his posture inadvertently and carelessly began to decline.
Then he realized that, at some point, he had started running on his own feet. How far did his beloved horse Bucephalus reach? Where did he end? He wanted to mourn for his friend, who had boldly carried out his duty to the end, but that was why he could not stop now. This step he would now take forward was in itself the mourning for those who were scattered.
His golden rival, as though understanding this, said something with an expression of amazement. But he could not hear him. Not even the flashes of light grazing past his ears, with the sounds of violent winds, could reach his ears.
What he heard, was simply - the sound of the waves.
The sound of the waves breaking onto the remote empty shores - of the sea at the world's end.
Aah, that was it. With a bright feeling, he understood it.
How had he not recognized it during all this time? - This violent throbbing of his heart was the roaring of Oceanus.
"Hahah... AHAHAHAHA!"
He saw his dream as he ran on the beach. The sensation of the sprays he kicked up felt pleasant on his toes. The bright red soaking his feet might be the blood flowing from his own abdomen, but what of it? Right now, he was watching a dream of the sea. How could there be any greater bliss?
The King of Heroes awaited him, right before his very eyes. One more step - and then, just one more, and his sword, brandished high, could cleave apart the crown of his head.
"Haaaah - !!"
With a ringing victory cry that reached the Heavens, he swung down the sword of the Cypriots.
It was the peak of a moment when he was convinced of his victory. The instant that should have passed in the blink of an eye seemed, for some reason, to stretch into an eternity. It was as though time stood still -
No. In truth, it did stop - not the flow of time, but his own body.
Just before the swung sword could reach, his blade, his limbs, his shoulders, and his abdomen were wrapped around by a tough chain; the King of Conquerors sighed.
Enkidu - the secret among secrets contained in the King of Heroes' vault. The restraint that captured even the Bull of Heaven.
" - Good grief... All these oddities, one after another..."
There was no wonder or regret. He simply derided himself for finally tripping over a small careless mistake. A bitter smile rose from his bloodstained lips.
The sword of the Cypriots could not reach him; however, Gilgamesh's Sword of Rupture pierced through Alexander's chest with its dull tip. He could feel the sensation of the slowly grinding blade inside his vitals. This sword just becomes more and more absurd - the King of Conquerors felt amazement as well as admiration, as though this was the affair of another.
" - Have you awoken from your dream, King of Conquerors?"
"... Hm, yes. I suppose..."
It could not be carried out this time, either. It had ended with the unfulfilled dream remaining as it was - unfulfilled. However, now that he thought about it, that was a one-time dream he had wagered his life for in the past.
The fantastic dream he saw in Asia Minor in the remote past - now, in this Far East land, he was once again seeing the same dream.
Thinking nostalgically on such checkered circumstances, Alexander smiled.
If he could see the same dream for even a second time, then it would not be strange to have a third.
Which would mean -
It was nearly the right time to see the next dream.
"This expedition has, been... exciting, in all respects as well..."
Alexander murmured in satisfaction, narrowing the corners of his eyes which were blurred by a blood haze. Ascertaining his expression of rapture, Gilgamesh solemnly nodded.
"You may challenge it however many times you wish, King of Conquerors."
To his worthy opponent, whose entire body was skewered from head to toe by the rain of Noble Phantasms, yet who did not stop until thwarted by the Chain of Heaven, the King of Heroes gave his greatest reward - he honored him with true feelings of admiration.
"Until the end of time, this world will always be my garden. Thus, I can assure you. You shall never find this world tiresome."
"Ooh...? That's, good to, hear..."
In the end, carelessly giving out the appropriate response, Servant Rider was quietly extinguished.

I agree with you entirely on this. For me, the most emotional part was when he charged with his army, along with the perfect music for the scene. Don't get me wrong, I loved the episode, but I prefer the novel version of his final charge. It just looked sorta goofy in the anime.

I don't think any death in this series has hit me as hard as Lancer's, though. It may not have even been the saddest at this point, but I quite literally had NO IDEA what I was getting into until that episode. It was at that point where I realized, 'oh dear, this war is going to be brutal,' and not like the comparatively light-hearted FSN. Of course, following that episode I had to go read the novel and spoil myself.

[Kimidori]

so Alexander The Great know no Military tactics other than Banzai? did he learn that from the japanese?

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Kimidori

so Alexander The Great know no Military tactics other than banzai? did he learn that from the japanese?

what tactics can you used against Gil?

[Ithekro]

How does one flank the Gate of Babylon?

[Kimidori]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

what tactics can you used against Gil?

he pretty much banzai against any of his enemy here: Berserker, Caster's Monster (when attack Caster's Base), Assassins (this one need no tatics anyway), Saber and Gil. never once did he seem to use any of the tatics that make him famous to this day

[Ragna92]

Originally Posted by Kimidori

so Alexander The Great know no Military tactics other than Banzai charge? did he learn that from the japanese?

Spoiler for Iskandar:

"He was a strategist. He acknowledged fully the indisputable flow of battle. But 'that' was different from 'this'. The King of Conquerors Alexander could not think of any other prescription other than charging toward the golden Heroic Spirit.
There was no resignation. There was no despair. What was there was only the utter excitement bursting full from his heart.
Strong - he was too strong. The hero who tore apart the world itself was undoubtedly the strongest enemy in Heaven and Earth.
In that case, this man was the last enemy."

[kk2extreme]

I think only Berserker (FZ version) is capable of defeating Gilgamesh one on one

[vansonbee]

What this comparison of my favorite vampire "Arcueid" and Gil?

Can anyone PM me or post more info about Arcueid and high tier powers?

[Paranoid Android]

Originally Posted by kk2extreme

I think only Berserker (FZ version) is capable of defeating Gilgamesh one on one

I think he should grab Gil and use him as a blunt weapon. xD

[Kaiba]

Originally Posted by Kimidori

he pretty much banzai against any of his enemy here: Berserker, Caster's Monster (when attack Caster's Base), Assassins (this one need no tatics anyway), Saber and Gil. never once did he seem to use any of the tatics that make him famous to this day

Tactics serve to make the difference between foes of relatively similar strength. Rider doesn't need tactics to defeat Caster, Assassin, or a distracted Berserker. He explicitly attacked Saber the way he did because he wanted to prove that his way of kingship really was stronger than Saber's ideals in a pure contest of strength. And Gilgamesh is too powerful to even think about tactics, as you're not beating a serious Gil.

Don't forget, Rider's the guy who actually came up with the idea of trapping Caster's monster in his Reality Marble while Saber and Lancer just futilely hacked away and refused to think about losing Gae Buidhe because of LOL CHIVALRY.

[Ragna92]

Originally Posted by vansonbee

What this comparison of my favorite vampire "Arcueid" and Gil?

Can anyone PM me or post more info about Arcueid and high tier powers?

For some reason I don't like the way you said that.

100% Arcuied is one of the strongest characters in the Nasuverse. She is immortal and has no concept of death.

[hyl]

Originally Posted by Ragna92

For some reason I don't like the way you said that.

100% Arcuied is one of the strongest characters in the Nasuverse. She is immortal and has no concept of death.

I think the other "types" are stronger than 100% Arc though.