(L) Zankyou no Terror (Terror in Tokyo)

[hyl]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Them not knowing about Oedipus is a very minor part of the problem. The issue here is that they didn't notice the riddle wasn't the same even after they studied the story of Oedipus and Sphinx's video. I bet even a 5 years old could have noticed this. Sphinx has nothing to fear from a police force this incompetent. Shibasaki certainly doesn't seem like much of a threat to them at the moment given how long it took him to put two and two together.

I am sure even most of us who know about the Oedipus and the sphinx story would have thought that "man" was answer due to how similar the riddles were and how the prior one was the more well known one. Not to mention that there was a matter of urgency and time due to the threat of another bombing

[renuac]

Originally Posted by Kanon

Them not knowing about Oedipus is a very minor part of the problem. The issue here is that they didn't notice the riddle wasn't the same even after they studied the story of Oedipus and Sphinx's video. I bet even a 5 years old could have noticed this. Sphinx has nothing to fear from a police force this incompetent. Shibasaki certainly doesn't seem like much of a threat to them at the moment given how long it took him to put two and two together.

But they did notice. Kurahashi said that the Sphinx's riddle was similar to the one the bombers gave. But even if there was a discrepancy between the two riddles, given how serious the situation was, the police kind of had to follow any lead they had.

[MCAL]

In trying to think of other cases of extreme police incompetence in real life, I was reminded of the Kuruko no Basuke threats too.

I mean look at it this way. If police can't capture one crazy guy for half a year or they mistake two Latina woman for a 200 pound African American (It wasn't even the right car), then I think they can be forgiven for not seeing an obscure retelling of a Greek story, especially when time is of the essence. And the direction in the whole police room was still excellent regardless. And I think everyone has one moment where good direction has let them still enjoy something immensely.

[shmaster]

Originally Posted by renuac

But they did notice. Kurahashi said that the Sphinx's riddle was similar to the one the bombers gave. But even if there was a discrepancy between the two riddles, given how serious the situation was, the police kind of had to follow any lead they had.

Which is even more stupid, they don't know when is the bomb is going to go off, or whether the bomb is being remote controlled, and how powerful it is.
Did they even consider the possibility that they'll be walking into a trap and get blasted into smithereens?

Before a investigation like this, double and triple check is absolutely necessary.

[Reckoner]

I'm sure you can explain to us basic bomb threat protocol since you seem to speak with such confidence about it .

[Kanon]

Originally Posted by renuac

But they did notice. Kurahashi said that the Sphinx's riddle was similar to the one the bombers gave. But even if there was a discrepancy between the two riddles, given how serious the situation was, the police kind of had to follow any lead they had.

The guy said it was similar, and then the people at the table immediately all worked under the assumption the answer to the two riddles were the same, even though they were clearly different riddles. The same person was later shocked when Shibasaki told him the numerical sequence was different and therefore so was the answer.

It's precisely because the situation was so serious that they should have analyzed the riddle further instead of moving their entire force on a simple guess. Their incompetence could have cost the lives of hundreds.

Originally Posted by MCAL

In trying to think of other cases of extreme police incompetence in real life, I was reminded of the Kuruko no Basuke threats too.

I mean look at it this way. If police can't capture one crazy guy for half a year or they mistake two Latina woman for a 200 pound African American (It wasn't even the right car), then I think they can be forgiven for not seeing an obscure retelling of a Greek story, especially when time is of the essence. And the direction in the whole police room was still excellent regardless. And I think everyone has one moment where good direction has let them still enjoy something immensely.

The thing here is that this wasn't meant to show us the police's incompetence, but rather that Shibasaki needs to come back to the police force because he is the only person smart enough to catch Sphinx. They were trying to make Shibasaki look smart rather than make the police look dumb. They failed. The police looked stupid, and Shibasaki only slightly less so.

[Konja9]

Originally Posted by Dop

"There walks on land a creature of two feet, of four feet, and of three"

Also:-
The Riddle of Oedipus
Athenaeus, Deipnosophistae 10.456b
"There walks on land a creature of two feet, of four feet, and of three; it has one voice, but sole among animals that grow upon land or in the sea, it can change its nature; nay, when it walks propped on most feet, then is the speed of its limbs less than it has ever been before."

Well that casts a bit of light on it. The 2-4-3 riddle is not made up for the show, but is an alternative version that's not as well known as the one everyone knows. Well played, mystery writer, well played.

Thank you very much for the information.

I was already wondering if the second version version really existed, since I could not find anything about it. Then that second version actually exists.

[cleo]

The anime expects us to suspend our disbelief quite a bit (only minor injured victims, none of the cops realizing the difference in the riddles). But I'm willing to do so, as it's such an exciting ride. I'm very intrigued by the interaction between Lisa and 9 & 12. For Lisa probably anyone treating her better than her mum or classmates is a plus. Nine has no problem making her an accomplice, but it seems like twelve doesn't want her to get close to nine. I'm not implying any romance, but twelve seems somewhat possessive/protective of nine. Can't wait to see where it's going.

[RollingPenguin]

The thing here is that this wasn't meant to show us the police's incompetence, but rather that Shibasaki needs to come back to the police force because he is the only person smart enough to catch Sphinx. They were trying to make Shibasaki look smart rather than make the police look dumb. They failed. The police looked stupid, and Shibasaki only slightly less so.

Seeing how the show compared blind and broken Oedipus to police, I am pretty sure that they wanted to portray police as stupid and incompetent.

[Utsuro no Hako]

Originally Posted by renuac

But they did notice. Kurahashi said that the Sphinx's riddle was similar to the one the bombers gave. But even if there was a discrepancy between the two riddles, given how serious the situation was, the police kind of had to follow any lead they had.

They should've followed the lead based upon the riddle given in the video -- the numbers 2-4-3 -- but instead they looked for an address with 4-2-3 in. That is inexcusably stupid. The terrorists gave them a clue and they ignored it.

[com_gwp]

Wow, why are there so many people deriding the capabilities of the police in this episode? Was it really that big a deal? Sure, us watchers knew something was definitely up, but I personally thought the episode managed to handle the reaction to the threat in a realistic and dignified capacity. (Well, as realistic as these terror thrillers get.)

As usual, superb directing, superb music, amazing episode all around. The only thing that bugs me is the zero fatalities miracle that the show wants to push (this episode seems to be another case of it, as much as I hope it isn't). Acts of terror should be indiscriminate, and I believe Nine and Twelve are the same way in personality, so the show will really be pushing their "luckiness" if this second time turns out to be the same way.

[Dop]

Originally Posted by RollingPenguin

Seeing how the show compared blind and broken Oedipus to police, I am pretty sure that they wanted to portray police as stupid and incompetent.

Showing the regular police as, if not stupid and incompetent, then as jumping to obvious conclusions, is pretty much a standard feature of detective shows. It makes the main detective look better, and it's a trope that dates back a long long time.

Holmes, Poirot, Maigret, Columbo, Morse, and many many more fictional detectives have all been made to look good by the regular police not having a clue what's really happening. It's par for the course.

The police in this show jumped to the OBVIOUS conclusion and set off post haste. But given the chance to stop the bombers they weren't going to sit around checking everything first.

Hence setting up Shibasaki as the 'master detective' of the show because he saw the alternative, albeit too late.

[askara]

wait no one died in eps 1? i find it impossible that everyone evacuate in time i mean Lisa herself nearly got killed and she cant be the only one. and why go through all that trouble to try to convince us there are no casualty when in ep 2 they show us debris shower upon pedestrian? surely they cant still say no casualty from that?

also police deduction is stupid

[renuac]

Originally Posted by com_gwp

Wow, why are there so many people deriding the capabilities of the police in this episode? Was it really that big a deal? Sure, us watchers knew something was definitely up, but I personally thought the episode managed to handle the reaction to the threat in a realistic and dignified capacity. (Well, as realistic as these terror thrillers get.)

Agreed. Yes, the episode was setting up Shibasaki as that one smart detective to keep our eye on, but saying that the police came across as actively incompetent is an exaggeration. They're following procedure and thinking within the box, sure, but what else can they do at this point? I thought they did a good job of portraying them as gropping in the dark when faced with a completely unexpected terrorist threat and under intense pressure after that second video. With so little information to go on and the threat of an imminent explosion, I don't see how they could justify not following any lead they can find.

If throughout the show they continue to be merely reactive and don't learn from their past experiences with Sphinx, then I'll have a problem with them. But for now, it's early days for the investigation.

[Dop]

The other thing of course is the police did the right thing. They might have jumped to the wrong conclusion, but they had what they thought was a reasonable lead that the bomb was at location A.
In a situation like that, the police aren't going to sit around going "Are you sure? Are you really sure? Shall we check this again and google loads of other stuff in case that gives us another idea?"
Hell no. They're going to light the lights, sound the sirens, and head off to evacuate the area and start a search. Really, they'd have been failing in their duty if they hadn't.

[Wandering Soul]

Originally Posted by Dop

The other thing of course is the police did the right thing. They might have jumped to the wrong conclusion, but they had what they thought was a reasonable lead that the bomb was at location A.
In a situation like that, the police aren't going to sit around going "Are you sure? Are you really sure? Shall we check this again and google loads of other stuff in case that gives us another idea?"
Hell no. They're going to light the lights, sound the sirens, and head off to evacuate the area and start a search. Really, they'd have been failing in their duty if they hadn't.

One of the problems though is that they got the lead by using the wrong clues. The terrorists were very clear about the riddle and the police still forgot it. I could have excused that scene if they remembered the original riddle and sent men to that location just to be sure. They also should have left some people behind in the station to work on solving the actual riddle. Instead they forgot the clue, end up solving the wrong riddle, don't even bother checking the video again to make sure they got it right, and send everyone to the false lead leaving the station completely unoccupied with no one checking their answer.
They then get completely surprised when they find out they solved the wring riddle despite the fact that the original was stated quite clearly. They basically sent their entire force out on a guess without so much as checking. The police just end up coming off as stupid and incompetent.

[Haruyasha]

My god ... absurdly good animation AND they released the OST at the start of series? We need more studios like this.

[hyl]

Originally Posted by the one above all

One of the problems though is that they got the lead by using the wrong clues. The terrorists were very clear about the riddle and the police still forgot it. I could have excused that scene if they remembered the original riddle and sent men to that location just to be sure. They also should have left some people behind in the station to work on solving the actual riddle. Instead they forgot the clue, end up solving the wrong riddle, don't even bother checking the video again to make sure they got it right, and send everyone to the false lead leaving the station completely unoccupied with no one checking their answer.
They then get completely surprised when they find out they solved the wring riddle despite the fact that the original was stated quite clearly. They basically sent their entire force out on a guess without so much as checking. The police just end up coming off as stupid and incompetent.

To be fair, it's not like that the police in real life are always that capable. Since there is enough things that you can find in newspapers , net or pretty much anywhere that the police (and intelligence agencies)have been mislead or blundered entirely by following the wrong clues in quite some occasions

Even if some people doubted that there was something wrong with the riddle , it's not like that they had a different lead and they couldn't afford not to react due to the urgency of another bombing after the previous attack was so recent. Not to mention that the 2-4-3 version is even obscure to most Western people


edit:
speculation on my part: i am not sure and we will see next week, but i think that this has been done intentionally to mislead the police. After rewatching the episode, it looks to me that Nine was counting on that the police followed the wrong trail because he watched the news before he set of the bomb. Probably to ensure that the amount of casualties would be minimal or atleast lessened

[Piesum]

Originally Posted by shmaster

Digging into the OP for some clues, and I noticed that Hugin is 9 an d Munin is 12.
Pretty fitting consider their abilities.

And this opens up a possibility that there is a third person in the group behind 9 and 12, serving the role of Odin.

Nice find.

Well, we know there is someone named Five. I'm thinking she is the kid in Nine's dream, who looked like they didn't escape past the fence. Don't know if she will serve that role though

It'll be interesting to see whether:
-she will genuinely help the detective,
-be secretly supporting nine and twelve
-doesn't realize it's nine and twelve
-has her own agenda.


So far, I'm not as interested as most of you seem to be. I'm sure it'll get more interesting though, considering the staff this anime has!

[Dop]

Originally Posted by hyl

To be fair, it's not like that the police in real life are always that capable. Since there is enough things that you can find in newspapers , net or pretty much anywhere that the police (and intelligence agencies)have been mislead or blundered entirely by following the wrong clues in quite some occasions

Exactly. People seem to be believing that the police in this show have to be perfect, when reality shows us that police forces have wrongly arrested, falsely imprisoned, or even killed innocent people because they jumped to the wrong conclusions.