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Kairin · 2016-09-03, 21:40

Welcome to the discussion thread for Macross, Episode 23.

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ReddyRedWolf · 2016-09-04, 09:13

Spoiler:

Jingdot · 2016-09-04, 09:24

Just so you know, the order I wrote this in is not chronologically right, it's just what I remember, roughly.

Spoiler:

The episode starts with Keith, Roid and Heinz. The latter tells them that he has a request: He wants to meet Hayate, Freyja and for some weird reason, Mirage too. Seems to be because they were there when Cassim died.

The Teams Arad-Kaname, Makina-Reina-Mikumo and Freyja-Hayate-Mirage try to infiltrate Windermere. Reina got her ankle injured but she seems fine, like Makina and Mikumo. They are deciding to make a little break and Mikumo bonds with them, she even blushes and Makina shoves a snowball in her clothes so Mikumo screams

It was a really cute scene. Freyja meanwhile takes Hayate and Mirage to a "secret" passage way so they can get away from windermerean soldiers. There she shows them her mp3-player again and it plays Seikan Hikou. The scene then shifts to baby-freyja who sings the song to the military guys and we see a certain person smiling but we don't entirely see his face but come on, you can totally see it's Hayates father.
They almost get away from Bogue who is extra salty because of Cassim, but Bogue found them (I think because he felt Frejyas Rune/Wind?). Meanwhile Makina-Reina-Mikumo get cought too but Mikumo tells Makina and Reina to flee, because she will handle the situation. They do as she says and Mikumo takes out a few soldiers with some martial art-Walküre skills. But then Roid appears, says "Rudanjal Rom Mayan", punches Mikumo in the gut and she falls unconscious and he takes her with him and he had a really reaaaallllyyy creepy smile while doing so. Team HayaFreyMira starts running but the catch them anyway. Bogue wants to kill them but they aren't allowed to do it because of Heinz (or so it seems). Bogue insults them because he is salty and Freyja asks if the people in here hometown are ok. They then take them to the "hole" and Freyja remembers really bad memories and her rune starts to flash in a black color - Hayate worriedly notices this. She then starts crying because of the memories and Bogue insults them again (he even ripped of Hayates fake rune from his hair and Hayate didn't even flinch, lol) saying his sisters died here. They all blame Hayates dad and Mirage and Freyja try to talk them out of it and protect Hayate and his Father, saying that the Knights (Herman, Bogue and Keith were there along with some soldiers) don't know the complete truth either. Hayate tells Freyja to sing and seems to get some pain in his chest? So the synchronization and Vár-Syndrome problem doesn't seem to be fixed yet.

Freyja sings but Bogue tells her to stop and brutally throws her into the snow. They then take them to the VF Hayates dead flew and show them the ultimate proof that it was indeed his dad. Hayate is shocked.

Keith is also very suspicious of Roid in this episode, because he is behaving even more weird and creepy than usual. He's planning to use Mikumo for the endgame but didn't tell anyone.

Now onto the triangle in this episode:
Mirage and Freyja have a nice talk about admiring each other with what they did in the fight on Alfheim. They then ask each other why the other one would go trough such lengths for Hayate. They are very close to ask if the other one likes Hayate but when they do it they stop midway in their sentence because they both ask it at the same time. After that Hayate came running to them because the enemy popped up.

After the ending credits we see Roid and Mikumo again - Roid tied Mikumo up and also undressed her to some content? He even gave her some other clothes? And he calls her the star singer. He really is creepy in this episode.

Gravitas Free Zone · 2016-09-04, 11:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jingdot

Spoiler:

Jingdot · 2016-09-04, 12:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gravitas Free Zone

Spoiler:

Mistyclear · 2016-09-04, 12:48

Did anyone else get the feeling that when Roid said that the rest of them escaped (them being the Walkure (Mikumo in particular)) Keith didn't believe him, there was a long pause before Keith replied to Roid's statement

.

CriiGV · 2016-09-04, 13:00

Keith is weary of Roid, that's for sure. Highlight of this episode for me was chibi Freyja singing. Now that's the kind of content I want. This is what I'm here for. I can die and go to heaven and be at peace now.

Anyway, I'm just sitting here wondering how we're going to tie this up in 3 episodes. Also, interesting to see Hayate's dad's VF

Kazu-kun · 2016-09-04, 13:12

Mikumo's character is just starting to develop and grow, and the show is already so close to the end. It feels like her development should have started earlier. Talk about wasted potential.

FlamingMangos · 2016-09-04, 13:23

I'm pretty sure we'll get a movie considering there's no way for the anime series to wrap everything up unless there is a movie. I highly doubt we'll get any of the girls winning Hayate. I predict that Hayate will start piloting his dad's plane and he'll get the support of both Mirage and Freyja to succeed in the final fight and that'll just be it.

Mistyclear · 2016-09-04, 17:15

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlamingMangos

I'm pretty sure we'll get a movie considering there's no way for the anime series to wrap everything up unless there is a movie. I highly doubt we'll get any of the girls winning Hayate. I predict that Hayate will start piloting his dad's plane and he'll get the support of both Mirage and Freyja to succeed in the final fight and that'll just be it.

I'm hoping you're correct as neither the NUNs guy nor even Berger (even if he's a business man who isn't really on anyone's side (or an overall enemy) he still plays an important role as he's closest to knowing Roid's goal plus he cooperates with his experiments, so I hope he doesn't just get sidelined) has made an appearance in a while. I can only imagine that the series deals with Roid and the conflict between Windermere and Walkure/ Delta, and the movie would deal with Mikumo and her role plus the actual conflict between NUNs and Windermere (plus Berger) (at least I hope).

KongaKonga · 2016-09-04, 17:54

Freyja singing Seikan Hikou make my heart go kyun kyun.. so adorable and cute...I hope they will release it ...I like her ver more than Ranka now haha

Mistyclear · 2016-09-04, 18:04

Hmm?? No that I think about it, isn't this the first time a male has physically touched Mikumo (at least on screen) or am I wrong?

In other news saw a fan picture of Mikumo and Hayate holding hands and smiling at one another.... My impression was no... Just no.

Convoy · 2016-09-04, 19:09

Bogue needs to die. And horribly realize in his final moments that he was wrong all along.

magnuskn · 2016-09-04, 19:49

Been saying that all along.

HirouKeimou · 2016-09-04, 20:37

I'll wait for subs for a full summary of my opinion on this episode.

For now, I'll summarize things I liked about this episode based on its raw.

The father plot device is finally coming into play on more than one area: Freyja talks about receiving her music player from a NUNS soldier from Earth (who has been foreshadowed as his father for a long time) and now there is legitimate proof that his father bombed Windermere (they have his freaking plane). Now, I don't mind this plot device coming out like so, what I do take issue with is: Considering how dimensional bombs go, how does Wright's plane not sustain any real damage from the explosion? How did anyone even grab his plane? How did he die? I'm really feeling an inconsistency that I hope the subs will clear up here because I don't know how anyone on Windermere a) killed Wright because his plane is in perfect condition, b) because of prior plane condition, captured him, and c) if he turned himself in (which is logical given his plane is okay), why it's never brought up.

Sorry if that's a lot of exposition for this increasingly large plot device.

I like how this episode is further establishing how much Hayate cares about Freyja as a person because his expressions are of concern each time she is remembering her home and she's a traitor who is unwelcome. And especially when he insists she sing (for her dead people) on the mountain overlooking the "scar" on Windermere. He knows how much her planet and people mean to her. That's not a bias for shipping; I generally believe he's a caring person and I like how this episode displays it like so.

Roid is an ass; it's all I'll add to our prior discussions. And I don't believe Bogue will die: I like to be optimistic about antagonists in Macross becoming protagonists by its resolve (like Brera in Frontier and Guld in Plus) so it's more than likely he and Keith will rise up and eliminate Roid before he can achieve his ultimate goal (of course, how it'll be discovered is likely to be interesting). For one, all this episode proves (in my eyes, especially) is Roid knows a little too much about Wright and could be concealing facts in order to maintain loyalty from the Aerial Knights. All the Aerial Knights need to know is Earth is their enemy and based on standard military protocol, this is generally okay: Give an enemy or target and soldiers will do as ordered even if there is no given or proven facts on how said person/people is your enemy.

For our triangle:

Spoiler for Next week preview speculation, I guess?:

I'll wait for subs to clarify all those plot holes I described in the Wright case. For now, it's an episode I waited literally 3 weeks for: An episode which finally hits on the Wright case for the first time since episode 17!

Not sure if I should wrap this all in spoilers since no one else discussing the episode is wrapping theirs in spoiler tags anymore...

Mistyclear · 2016-09-04, 20:50

^ If I heard correctly (as my Japanese is limited) it's not just his plane they found, they found his body in its cockpit, but like I said my Japanese is limited so if I'm wrong feel free to correct me.

-Antares- · 2016-09-04, 23:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mistyclear

^ If I heard correctly (as my Japanese is limited) it's not just his plane they found, they found his body in its cockpit, but like I said my Japanese is limited so if I'm wrong feel free to correct me.

You heard and understood right. His corpse was in the cockpit when they first found it. Though, you could always go super conspiracy theory and say someone else found him first and killed him and didn't tell anybody.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mistyclear

Hmm?? No that I think about it, isn't this the first time a male has physically touched Mikumo (at least on screen) or am I wrong?

If I remember correctly, she did touch the face of a Var-infected soldier in episode 1.

HirouKeimou · 2016-09-04, 23:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by -Antares-

You heard and understood right. His corpse was in the cockpit when they first found it. Though, you could always go super conspiracy theory and say someone else found him first and killed him and didn't tell anybody

Then it's more of a question of how he died or who killed him.

I'm speculating someone killed him outside of his cockpit (like he landed) and plopped him into the cockpit for someone to find later. Then again, like you said, it'd be another conspiracy to slap onto this mess of a series...

That said, his plane is in really good condition, and I don't believe Windermere is alright with fixing up his plane for show and tell of who is responsible for their "scar".

So I don't believe he was shot down.

Falulu hime · 2016-09-05, 02:24

The scene in which Freya sang in front of the crater / hole was my favorite. While volatile nature of Bogue did not intervene. I knew he was such a character, but it probably was not fair to Freya. Of course Roid was on the side of Bogue.
In this episode Mikumo was so sweet at times showed so innocent expressions. Selfless, courageous. While naturally Roid did not catch her.
Ignorance all are waiting to find out who will choose Hаyatе. From the beginning of the season. But I am curious with who will be Mikumо. She will not be with Hаyatе. I have no desire love triangle turn into a square / rectangle.
I know Mikumo still maturing. But it is possible right now for someone to win her heart. I have someone in mind, but it not Roid.
I want to hear your suggestions.

foxbox360 · 2016-09-05, 07:25

I think someone Haytate dad was frame for the bomb, he probably tired to get the bomb away from everyone but someone remote control the bomb explosion. I bet roid and the older knights know the truth about it but keep bury.

View Poll Results: Macross Delta - Episode 23 Rating
Perfect 10	4	23.53%
9 out of 10 : Excellent	2	11.76%
8 out of 10 : Very Good	5	29.41%
7 out of 10 : Good	1	5.88%
6 out of 10 : Average	2	11.76%
5 out of 10 : Below Average	2	11.76%
4 out of 10 : Poor	0	0%
3 out of 10 : Bad	0	0%
2 out of 10 : Very Bad	0	0%
1 out of 10 : Painful	1	5.88%
Voters: 17. You may not vote on this poll

2016-09-04, 09:13	Link #2
ReddyRedWolf Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2006	Spoiler: Freyja and Mirage know of each other's feelings for Hayate but is interrupted. Shy Mikumo is cute and is teasing material for Makina and Reina. Arad brings Kaname to an old NUNS facility. Freya, Mirage and Hataye, and Mikumo get caught separately. Under Heinz orders he wants to meet them. Knights bring them to Scarfell. Laying the blame on Terrans. But they couldn't justify this war or their actions which they do not see as wrong. Bogue gets violent on Freyja for singing to the dead.Yeah he is still an asshole. Especially when he found out Hayate is Wright's son. Apparently they don't know that Wright sole an MDE after meeting their knights. Helmann isn't enraged and tres to stop Bogue several times. Wonder if he knows something. Roid has now Mikumo in his hands the so called Star Singer. He s aiming for his endgame using her. Course he didn't tell anybody about her.

2016-09-04, 13:12	Link #8
Kazu-kun Senior Member Join Date: Apr 2006	Mikumo's character is just starting to develop and grow, and the show is already so close to the end. It feels like her development should have started earlier. Talk about wasted potential. __________________ Last edited by Kazu-kun; 2016-09-04 at 14:20.

2016-09-04, 13:23	Link #9
FlamingMangos Member Join Date: Mar 2015	I'm pretty sure we'll get a movie considering there's no way for the anime series to wrap everything up unless there is a movie. I highly doubt we'll get any of the girls winning Hayate. I predict that Hayate will start piloting his dad's plane and he'll get the support of both Mirage and Freyja to succeed in the final fight and that'll just be it. Last edited by FlamingMangos; 2016-09-04 at 13:58.

2016-09-04, 19:49	Link #14
magnuskn Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2006 Location: Hamburg, Germany Age: 48	Been saying that all along. __________________

2016-09-04, 09:24	Link #3
Jingdot Hoina! Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: Germany Age: 28	Just so you know, the order I wrote this in is not chronologically right, it's just what I remember, roughly. Spoiler: The episode starts with Keith, Roid and Heinz. The latter tells them that he has a request: He wants to meet Hayate, Freyja and for some weird reason, Mirage too. Seems to be because they were there when Cassim died. The Teams Arad-Kaname, Makina-Reina-Mikumo and Freyja-Hayate-Mirage try to infiltrate Windermere. Reina got her ankle injured but she seems fine, like Makina and Mikumo. They are deciding to make a little break and Mikumo bonds with them, she even blushes and Makina shoves a snowball in her clothes so Mikumo screams It was a really cute scene. Freyja meanwhile takes Hayate and Mirage to a "secret" passage way so they can get away from windermerean soldiers. There she shows them her mp3-player again and it plays Seikan Hikou. The scene then shifts to baby-freyja who sings the song to the military guys and we see a certain person smiling but we don't entirely see his face but come on, you can totally see it's Hayates father. They almost get away from Bogue who is extra salty because of Cassim, but Bogue found them (I think because he felt Frejyas Rune/Wind?). Meanwhile Makina-Reina-Mikumo get cought too but Mikumo tells Makina and Reina to flee, because she will handle the situation. They do as she says and Mikumo takes out a few soldiers with some martial art-Walküre skills. But then Roid appears, says "Rudanjal Rom Mayan", punches Mikumo in the gut and she falls unconscious and he takes her with him and he had a really reaaaallllyyy creepy smile while doing so. Team HayaFreyMira starts running but the catch them anyway. Bogue wants to kill them but they aren't allowed to do it because of Heinz (or so it seems). Bogue insults them because he is salty and Freyja asks if the people in here hometown are ok. They then take them to the "hole" and Freyja remembers really bad memories and her rune starts to flash in a black color - Hayate worriedly notices this. She then starts crying because of the memories and Bogue insults them again (he even ripped of Hayates fake rune from his hair and Hayate didn't even flinch, lol) saying his sisters died here. They all blame Hayates dad and Mirage and Freyja try to talk them out of it and protect Hayate and his Father, saying that the Knights (Herman, Bogue and Keith were there along with some soldiers) don't know the complete truth either. Hayate tells Freyja to sing and seems to get some pain in his chest? So the synchronization and Vár-Syndrome problem doesn't seem to be fixed yet. Freyja sings but Bogue tells her to stop and brutally throws her into the snow. They then take them to the VF Hayates dead flew and show them the ultimate proof that it was indeed his dad. Hayate is shocked. Keith is also very suspicious of Roid in this episode, because he is behaving even more weird and creepy than usual. He's planning to use Mikumo for the endgame but didn't tell anyone. Now onto the triangle in this episode: Mirage and Freyja have a nice talk about admiring each other with what they did in the fight on Alfheim. They then ask each other why the other one would go trough such lengths for Hayate. They are very close to ask if the other one likes Hayate but when they do it they stop midway in their sentence because they both ask it at the same time. After that Hayate came running to them because the enemy popped up. After the ending credits we see Roid and Mikumo again - Roid tied Mikumo up and also undressed her to some content? He even gave her some other clothes? And he calls her the star singer. He really is creepy in this episode.

2016-09-04, 12:48	Link #6
Mistyclear Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2016	Did anyone else get the feeling that when Roid said that the rest of them escaped (them being the Walkure (Mikumo in particular)) Keith didn't believe him, there was a long pause before Keith replied to Roid's statement .

2016-09-04, 13:00	Link #7
CriiGV Junbi wa inka ne? Join Date: Jun 2016 Location: Cancun, México.	Keith is weary of Roid, that's for sure. Highlight of this episode for me was chibi Freyja singing. Now that's the kind of content I want. This is what I'm here for. I can die and go to heaven and be at peace now. Anyway, I'm just sitting here wondering how we're going to tie this up in 3 episodes. Also, interesting to see Hayate's dad's VF

2016-09-04, 17:54	Link #11
KongaKonga Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2016	Freyja singing Seikan Hikou make my heart go kyun kyun.. so adorable and cute...I hope they will release it ...I like her ver more than Ranka now haha

2016-09-04, 18:04	Link #12
Mistyclear Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2016	Hmm?? No that I think about it, isn't this the first time a male has physically touched Mikumo (at least on screen) or am I wrong? In other news saw a fan picture of Mikumo and Hayate holding hands and smiling at one another.... My impression was no... Just no.

2016-09-04, 19:09	Link #13
Convoy Knight of Infinity Join Date: Aug 2016 Location: Island 1, Macross Frontier	Bogue needs to die. And horribly realize in his final moments that he was wrong all along.

2016-09-04, 20:37	Link #15
HirouKeimou Senior Member Join Date: Jul 2016 Location: United States	I'll wait for subs for a full summary of my opinion on this episode. For now, I'll summarize things I liked about this episode based on its raw. The father plot device is finally coming into play on more than one area: Freyja talks about receiving her music player from a NUNS soldier from Earth (who has been foreshadowed as his father for a long time) and now there is legitimate proof that his father bombed Windermere (they have his freaking plane). Now, I don't mind this plot device coming out like so, what I do take issue with is: Considering how dimensional bombs go, how does Wright's plane not sustain any real damage from the explosion? How did anyone even grab his plane? How did he die? I'm really feeling an inconsistency that I hope the subs will clear up here because I don't know how anyone on Windermere a) killed Wright because his plane is in perfect condition, b) because of prior plane condition, captured him, and c) if he turned himself in (which is logical given his plane is okay), why it's never brought up. Sorry if that's a lot of exposition for this increasingly large plot device. I like how this episode is further establishing how much Hayate cares about Freyja as a person because his expressions are of concern each time she is remembering her home and she's a traitor who is unwelcome. And especially when he insists she sing (for her dead people) on the mountain overlooking the "scar" on Windermere. He knows how much her planet and people mean to her. That's not a bias for shipping; I generally believe he's a caring person and I like how this episode displays it like so. Roid is an ass; it's all I'll add to our prior discussions. And I don't believe Bogue will die: I like to be optimistic about antagonists in Macross becoming protagonists by its resolve (like Brera in Frontier and Guld in Plus) so it's more than likely he and Keith will rise up and eliminate Roid before he can achieve his ultimate goal (of course, how it'll be discovered is likely to be interesting). For one, all this episode proves (in my eyes, especially) is Roid knows a little too much about Wright and could be concealing facts in order to maintain loyalty from the Aerial Knights. All the Aerial Knights need to know is Earth is their enemy and based on standard military protocol, this is generally okay: Give an enemy or target and soldiers will do as ordered even if there is no given or proven facts on how said person/people is your enemy. For our triangle: Spoiler for Next week preview speculation, I guess?: Based on the little preview for next week, we'll likely receive an answer on this from either the girl(s) or Hayate. I mean, right now, based on the scenes playing out in the preview, it kind of looks like an execution of Hayate is in effect or something (she's screaming in the preview and he's looking up towards her(?) and looking like he's okay with something); it's the impression I received from this preview, especially with how Bogue nearly beheaded him in this episode. I'll wait for subs to clarify all those plot holes I described in the Wright case. For now, it's an episode I waited literally 3 weeks for: An episode which finally hits on the Wright case for the first time since episode 17! Not sure if I should wrap this all in spoilers since no one else discussing the episode is wrapping theirs in spoiler tags anymore...

2016-09-04, 20:50	Link #16
Mistyclear Senior Member Join Date: Jun 2016	^ If I heard correctly (as my Japanese is limited) it's not just his plane they found, they found his body in its cockpit, but like I said my Japanese is limited so if I'm wrong feel free to correct me.

2016-09-05, 02:24	Link #19
Falulu hime Junior Member Join Date: Aug 2016	The scene in which Freya sang in front of the crater / hole was my favorite. While volatile nature of Bogue did not intervene. I knew he was such a character, but it probably was not fair to Freya. Of course Roid was on the side of Bogue. In this episode Mikumo was so sweet at times showed so innocent expressions. Selfless, courageous. While naturally Roid did not catch her. Ignorance all are waiting to find out who will choose Hаyatе. From the beginning of the season. But I am curious with who will be Mikumо. She will not be with Hаyatе. I have no desire love triangle turn into a square / rectangle. I know Mikumo still maturing. But it is possible right now for someone to win her heart. I have someone in mind, but it not Roid. I want to hear your suggestions.

2016-09-05, 07:25	Link #20
foxbox360 New Age Badass Join Date: Mar 2014 Location: Charlotte, NC	I think someone Haytate dad was frame for the bomb, he probably tired to get the bomb away from everyone but someone remote control the bomb explosion. I bet roid and the older knights know the truth about it but keep bury. __________________ Mecha need to evolve!!!!!