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Old 2012-09-13, 22:04   Link #10461
Wolfenstein
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Hm, I'll have to gather my thoughts a little more before coming to a decision on what I feel right now about this chapter.

Oh, and it's out.
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Old 2012-09-13, 22:43   Link #10462
Tyabann
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Most of the chapter was actually quite good, and the sort of believable character drama I really got into Medaka Box for to begin with.
But Iihiko Shishime? Fifteen seconds? Fuck no, that's astoundingly fucking retarded. I want to drop this terrible shit but I can't, because I have to know how it ends. I feel like a fucking Bleach reader.
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Old 2012-09-13, 23:09   Link #10463
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I think my main complaint is that shit is just way too fast. I can't get aclimatized properly. I mean, at one moment we're exploring Shiranui's character, and then at the other, BAM! Wall to the face.
Plus, I kinda liked Shiranui's "older" characterization better. We used to think she didn't give a fuck and literally cared for only one person in the entire school. But that's just opinion.

Edit: My reading comprehension might be off on my second point, though.
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Old 2012-09-13, 23:23   Link #10464
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I guess these cerebus retcons can get a bit tiring. I don't really know if I like the direction they're taking Shiranui's character.

Ouch Hitoyoshi, being told of his bridging status to Medaka...that's just harsh. Perhaps it's just jerkass facade, but still..

And when are we going to learn about Real Eater?
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Old 2012-09-13, 23:27   Link #10465
Tyabann
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DawnEmperor View Post
I guess these cerebus retcons can get a bit tiring. I don't really know if I like the direction they're taking Shiranui's character.
This was one of the few things that's obviously been planned for a long time.
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And when are we going to learn about Real Eater?
Skills? What are those? We have Styles and magic bullshit demons now.
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Old 2012-09-13, 23:27   Link #10466
Wolfenstein
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Originally Posted by DawnEmperor View Post
I don't really know if I like the direction they're taking Shiranui's character.
Maybe for the same reason as me?

Allow me to explain.

When I first read the manga, I liked Shiranui because she clearly did not give a shit for anyone and anything except for Zenkichi. That made her unique. If she's just another character who "opened-up" to the whole of Hakoniwa, I think that would kill something that made her unique.

Although, that would depend on how you read this chapter

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Ouch Hitoyoshi, being told of his bridging status to Medaka...that's just harsh. Perhaps it's just jerkass facade, but still..
Really strange is it not?

I think there's really no doubt about it anymore. Zenkichi never was the main character, even after and during the Not-Equal arc, when we were lead to believe he was the main-character all along/would be. That kinda cheapens Nishio's supposed deconstruction of Mary Sues by, well, completely.

But whatever. I'm past the point of caring, I guess.

Last edited by Wolfenstein; 2012-09-13 at 23:43.
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Old 2012-09-13, 23:42   Link #10467
DawnEmperor
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@Kaios Erran

I just said I might not like it. I didn't mean to imply that he's just pulling things out.
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Old 2012-09-13, 23:44   Link #10468
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So Kumagawa will always "lose", Zenkichi will always be the support, Ajimu will never fail....
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Old 2012-09-13, 23:51   Link #10469
Tyabann
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Ajimu's about to fail though, completely fucking stupid as it is.
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Old 2012-09-13, 23:53   Link #10470
orangejuicetang
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Really strange is it not?

I think there's really no doubt about it anymore. Zenkichi never was the main character, even after and during the Not-Equal arc, when we were lead to believe he was the main-character all along/would be. That kinda cheapens Nishio's supposed deconstruction of Mary Sues by, well, completely.

But whatever. I'm past the point of caring, I guess.
And then it will turn out that Kumagawa was the main character all along!

On a less joking manner though, it's something I've been thinking about recently, but I've suddenly felt/realized that Kumagawa's char concept is closer to Nios's other 'protagonists' (like from Zaregoto or Bakemonogatari) then Zen. At least in my opinion.
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Old 2012-09-14, 00:02   Link #10471
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Originally Posted by orangejuicetang View Post
And then it will turn out that Kumagawa was the main character all along!

On a less joking manner though, it's something I've been thinking about recently, but I've suddenly felt/realized that Kumagawa's char concept is closer to Nios's other 'protagonists' (like from Zaregoto or Bakemonogatari) then Zen. At least in my opinion.
Well, he is getting his own novel isn't he? That's gotta count for something.
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Old 2012-09-14, 00:07   Link #10472
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That enemy seems cool since even anshin can hold him for 15 seconds
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Old 2012-09-14, 00:12   Link #10473
Tyabann
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Originally Posted by kenjtr View Post
That enemy seems cool since even anshin can hold him for 15 seconds
Well, if you represent the average mentality of the Jump readership, at least the manga might gain more popularity now.
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Old 2012-09-14, 00:17   Link #10474
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Didn't Nishio just finish telling us that Ajimu is all-powerful?

Yea, I'm sure the narrator said that. And I'm sure Zenkichi wasn't the one narrating this time, since he can say falliable things.

C'mon. This manga has no rules.
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Old 2012-09-14, 00:18   Link #10475
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@orangejuicetang What do you mean exactly(in regards to the protagonists of the other series)?
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Old 2012-09-14, 00:26   Link #10476
Tyabann
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Originally Posted by Wolfenstein View Post
Didn't Nishio just finish telling us that Ajimu is all-powerful?

Yea, I'm sure the narrator said that. And I'm sure Zenkichi wasn't the one narrating this time, since he can say falliable things.

C'mon. This manga has no rules.
Not really sure what you're trying to say here.
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Old 2012-09-14, 00:33   Link #10477
Sol Falling
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lol. Kumagawa's explanation of Shiranui's feelings being with Zen only because of the "whole school" is obviously bullshit. The real implied reason obviously is that she's in love with him. Just take Shiranui's violent reaction to some random guy saying Zenkichi was just a nobody/support character a couple chapters back. She clearly hasn't got (and doesn't even want, probably) a genuine grasp over her emotions.

Now, why would Kumagawa lie like that? Maybe 'cause he's just minus like that. lol, or maybe it's because, as a Minus, he understands Shiranui and decided to use some tact in discussing Shiranui's feelings.

If you ask me, Kumagawa does possess much more of the classic appeal and interestingness of Nishio's characters. Nishio's protags generally aren't vanilla, straight-laced, normal chumps like Zenkichi. They're usually a bit more broken. But hey, Nishio's obviously got some sort of plan behind this setup and characterization.

(For the record, everybody did notice Kumagawa's feelings for Medaka being alluded to in this chapter again, right? When Shiranui noted why Kumagawa disliked Zenkichi. Even if I don't get my preferred ending, this dynamic is obviously gonna be developed going forward as a theme.)

Also, the new darkness/devil (he's got a lot of the classic Japanese/buddhist Asura iconography) character is fucking awesome. As a comparison to another element introduced recently, I already like him more than Kurokami Kajiki. If you guys think about it, the theme of some sort of rampaging, unstoppable darkness lurking in the back/depths of this story has been sitting around since forever, hasn't it? To the extent that I was thinking it might be possible that that would be the next major plotline, after the Not Equals arc, back when everybody was panicking about the manga ending. I'm gonna bet right now that this Iihiko guy has something to do with the "inconceivable darkness" deep inside Medaka. The potential/idea of a fight between them, and Medaka revisiting that state, is fucking awesome.
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Old 2012-09-14, 00:43   Link #10478
Tyabann
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sol Falling View Post
But hey, Nishio's obviously got some sort of plan behind this setup and characterization.
Where is it? Please, explain what this plan is and when it's going to rear its head. I don't see it.
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Also, the new darkness/devil (he's got a lot of the classic Japanese/buddhist Asura iconography) character is fucking awesome.
It is not. It is, instead, the single worst idea Nisio has ever had in his entire career as a writer, ever.
I will explain why.
This is because when you create a character who is defined as being unbeatable, unstoppable, invincible, and immortal, you cannot create a character who is a credible threat for her without them also being unbeatable, unstoppable, invincible, and immortal, a matchup that can only result in a tie.
Instead, Ajimu seems convinced that this devil-creature is going to completely flatten her, and that is amazingly stupid.

Last edited by Tyabann; 2012-09-14 at 18:38.
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Old 2012-09-14, 01:05   Link #10479
Sol Falling
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Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon View Post
Where is it? Please, explain what this plan is and when it's going to rear its head. I don't see it.
Zenkichi's character (and Kumagawa's, and Medaka's for that matter) obviously is going to be some sort of statement about human ability. About how to live and relate to others even despite such total variations in talent/success/seemingly 'destined' happiness. We won't know until the end what that statement is, and it may or may not involve Zenkichi winning his lifelong dream of bagging Medaka. Regardless, the narrative design is clearly intentional.

Quote:
It is not. It is, instead, the single worst idea Nisio has ever had in his entire career as a writer, ever.
I will explain why.
This is because when you create a character who is defined as being unbeatable, unstoppable, invincible, and immortal, you cannot create a character who is a credible threat for her without them also being unbeatable, unstoppable, invincible, and immortal, a matchup that can only result in a tie.
Instead, Ajimu seems convinced that this devil-creature is going to completlely flatten her, and that is AMAZINGLY,
AMAZINGLY, AMAZINGLY, AMAZINGLY, AMAZINGLY, AMAZINGLY, AMAZINGLY, AMAZINGLY, AMAZINGLY, AMAZINGLY, AMAZINGLY, AMAZINGLY,
STUPID.
Haha, calm down from the emotional reaction and think about it for a moment. Is it really impossible to rationalize? Do you really think Nishio will lack a good explanation? First of all, Ajimu has never really been portrayed as an "unstoppable force" so much as a "transcendental existence". She is "above" the conflicts of the world, not really chaotically/forcefully interacting and imposing her will upon it. Ajimu's sense of "all-powerfulness" arises from her natural tendency/ability to overcome "impossibilities", and I'm sure in many ways that this guy, as a supposed "impossibility", will more or less be the same (i.e. something Ajimu will become able to overcome naturally). What Ajimu doesn't have, however, is the sheer direct sense of control/connection to the world to probably stop this guy from stomping all over Medaka/Kumagawa/Zenkichi in the sheer present moment. If given some time, I presume Anshin'in could create a skill which would be able to contain Iihiko more effectively. Simply because he is an impossibility beyond what she has encountered before, however, it seems perfectly believable that she isn't able to just shut him down immediately.

Remember that while Ajimu seems to have perfect command and knowledge over the Medaka Box universe, she nonetheless was never the one who created it. The Medaka Box world was created, and then Ajimu encountered it, searched for impossibilities, and gained mastery over it. Basically, it's very likely that this rampaging Iihiko guy who has been implied to be somewhere on the same level as the Not Equals is intricately connected to the actual creation of the Medaka Box universe--that unusual/extraordinary force which also gives rise to such 'inexplicable' occurrences as those original Abnormal and Minus phenomenons. It is perfectly reasonable that an existence on this level would be able to challenge Ajimu/the Shiranuis/the Not Equals, if not completely dominate them.

For the record, I'm going to bet now that this guy (Iihiko) is actually the person whom Hanten emerged to be the "shadow"/"double" of.

Last edited by Sol Falling; 2012-09-14 at 01:22.
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Old 2012-09-14, 01:08   Link #10480
orangejuicetang
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@orangejuicetang What do you mean exactly(in regards to the protagonists of the other series)?
Well, in Zaregoto, the protaganist is a self-admitted 'damaged goods', 'defective product', 'loser', 'babbler of nonsense', etc. Hard to describe, but like, super cynical, anti-social, that type of person? Similar with Araragi from Monogatari, who's sort of a weird anti-social person with no friends prior to the events of the novel.

In other words, they're both sort of 'losers'. And Kumagawa is like the embodiment of all that, in a way?

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Well, he is getting his own novel isn't he? That's gotta count for something.
Tell me more
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