2010-06-02, 06:17 | Link #1682 |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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Indeed. It states very clearly you can't flame a character or another character on this thread. Since it's breaking the rules I will report it nevertheless.
I admire Shirley, she was a very strong person. Being able to forgive takes time, especially in her case. Either she is incredibly dim or she is incredibly innocent. I think it's the latter. Code Geass needed more characters like that. That or they needed a certain liar. I like Rolo, talking to Roloko influenced me on the reality of his situation. It's very, very easy to hate a character. It's difficult trying to understand them. Most of the time anyways. I rest my case: We're all different birds under the same sky; Some people hate bluebirds, some hate crows. Listen carefully; you won't be able to dislike them if you listen to their odes. Metaphorically and poetically speaking of course. I'd imagine Rolo and Shirley getting along just fine in a normal world. They did actually, and they would have continued in a world without geass. Not so fortunate though. I'm certain Shirley didn't hate Rolo in the end. I wouldn't either. What I hate is geass; the source of the problem. Well... a good deal of the problem anyways. That's about it from me. |
2010-06-02, 12:29 | Link #1683 | |
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Join Date: Jan 2009
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Shirley-chan qualifies for all these virtues, in a sweet as apple pie and huggable as a teddy bear package, with a smile so cute that if can probably stop the rampaging-charge of a male South-African elephant in heat. Point in fact, just started working on a Shirley-chan piece of fanart with the help of two splendid softwares: Photoshop 4 and Painter 9.5. Gimme another 9 days (real-life commitents stink!!) and rather than just tell, I'll also show why she (along with Nunnally-chan, also in the artwork) has all my love.
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Last edited by Gordy Lechance; 2010-06-02 at 12:53. |
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2010-06-02, 12:38 | Link #1684 | |
Shameless Fangirl
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: Germany
Age: 33
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Anyway, I agree that Shirley is awesome.
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2010-06-02, 14:57 | Link #1685 | |||
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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Making/allowing you to feel empathy for dubious individuals is one of the most basic functions of fiction. It's a step beyond black and white 'good vs. evil' narratives which blatantly shill an ideology, but no less artificial. Personally, I never blamed Rolo for Shirley's death. I never hated him; I blamed Sunrise, right from the start. It's just that I never liked him either, and Sunrise's similarly manipulative efforts to 'redeem' him only exasperated that issue. Quote:
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Thus in R2, when Shirley gets her memories back, it is not her 'innocence' which allows her to forgive Lelouch. Hell, the way things went at first, you could possibly say Shirley's 'innocence' nearly reported Lelouch/Zero to Suzaku. Shirley's forgiveness was born from her love for him, her love in two ways: first was her assurance in Lelouch's heart, what he truly valued and wanted beyond the mask of being a terrorist responsible for the death of millions, which he revealed to her when he told her "I don't want to lose anything anymore". The second way in which Shirley's love compelled her to forgive him was in its perception of Lelouch's loneliness, of Lelouch's abandonment and separation from all the people important to him, of Lelouch's oppression and struggle to protect them against enemies from all corners. For such a Lelouch at that time, if Shirley wouldn't forgive him, then who would? |
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2010-06-02, 15:10 | Link #1686 |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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I really don't feel like elaborating on what I meant and said, and I personally like my answers. I also like yours since they highlight the flaws of my answers. I agree with what you mostly say; though I remain on my 'blaming the environment of the character' and 'geass'.
I respect what you mean by that. Her forgiveness wasn't as simple as I made it out to be because I purposely made it simple on the basis to end the current conflict at that moment. I echo what you say on some degree, but I still keep to myself on this. The 'redeeming Rolo' part... I won't touch on. |
2010-06-02, 16:03 | Link #1687 | |
Banned
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: U.S.A.
Age: 35
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Anyway, on the subject of Rolo and Shirley's death, I'm really not inclined to blame the "environment" or the "geass" for her death. We can't always blame a person's upbringing or their environment, and the geass is just a tool (well, debatably). At some point we all have to be held accountable for our actions. I believe I've stated it before, but I'll say it again that Rolo killed Shirley out of his own free will. Yes, his morals may have been messed up, but it's not like he was brainwashed or forced to do it. It was entirely his choice. |
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2010-06-02, 18:22 | Link #1688 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Virginia
Age: 46
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Now I for one do not have a problem with a posters stating their opinion or getting emotional over a character. But foul language or tryin to start a fight is a no-no! In any event, I'm definetly lookin forward to your fanart of Shirley and Nunnally! And welcome to the Shirley thread!
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2010-06-02, 19:54 | Link #1689 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2008
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Still, it's just too bad that Lelouch hadn't yet taught Rolo the value of treating other people well. |
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2010-06-11, 17:11 | Link #1690 |
Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Age: 32
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Likes:
1) As a person she's all round nice & like-able. 2) Is able to forgive alot of things 3) Funny at times 4) Member of the swim team 5) Saved Zero in R1 Dislikes: 1) Constantly got in the way of Lelouch emotionally 2) Has a tendency to snoop or delve deeper into things which led to her death 3) Paranoid / Jelous 4) Weak in most aspects: emotionally, mentally & physically Overall i thought Shirley was necessary in Lelouch's development but i didn't like her as a character. I didn't like the way she died, through Rolo's immaturity, but felt that too was necessary. |
2010-06-11, 20:29 | Link #1691 |
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Join Date: Oct 2007
Age: 35
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:P I have trouble understanding what you mean about Shirley getting in the way of Lelouch emotionally. Getting in the way of what? If you follow Lelouch's emotional development to the end of the series, it's more like Shirley guided and supported him rather than getting his way. Shirley was the one who helped Lelouch realize what he really wanted and had all along (Turn 7), and she also taught him how to believe in the hearts and feelings of people (Turn 11). Without what Shirley did for Lelouch emotionally, Lelouch wouldn't even understand what happiness is, and the good intentions behind Zero Requiem wouldn't exist--in the face of his meaningless revenge and rebellion against Britannia, as he finally realized in Turn 22, Lelouch really wouldn't have been anything but meaningless noise. Lelouch's emotions for Shirley (among other characters) represent everything good about his character, so if his feelings for her ever got in the way of anything, then those things weren't good or necessary in the first place.
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2010-06-11, 21:19 | Link #1693 |
Goat Herder
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 36
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I'm... kinda stumped at how Shirley's supposed to be mentally and physically weak. Is she mentally weak because she's not as crazy-intelligent as Lelouch? No. Is she physically weak because she's not as super strong or as super fast as Suzaku? No...
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2010-06-12, 17:58 | Link #1696 |
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Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: UK
Age: 32
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Mentally weak because she was so easily manipulated & had hallucinations as well as attempting to commit suicide while hallucinating. You could excuse this by blaming it on how she was abused by Geass. Physically i guess i use the military as a compass, unfair, yes, but i do. Lelouch is frail.
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2010-06-12, 18:15 | Link #1697 | |
Goat Herder
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 36
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2010-06-12, 19:18 | Link #1699 | |
Goat Herder
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Join Date: Jun 2008
Age: 36
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You give average humans far too much credit. The only ones who didn't get an epic mindfuck from Mao was one person with a mind that was already far more intelligent than the average person's, and another person who was completely immune to his power. And even then that extremely intelligent person had his share of trouble with Mao. You're being too biased here: you can't can't use one gifted individual as a standard for regular people. Not in Code Geass.
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2010-06-12, 19:44 | Link #1700 |
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Join Date: Jan 2010
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Mao was twisted because of his geass. He could pluck a thought - any thought - out of the victim's mind and twist it, completely pervert it and use it against them. What do you fear? What do you love? How much do you know? Everyone is literally an open book.
Shirley was an average teenage girl. Just a student living life. Asking her to have mental fortitude is a bit unfair considering she is one of the MOST normal characters in the entire show. If she wasn't so uncertain about so many things during the time; I'd say manipulating her would have been less easy as it was. |
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