Sword Art Online - Episode 16 Discussion / Poll

[NoemiChan]

Kirito: "A game where you can die is too easy"

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[molitar]

Ok I have to wonder if the warp in was a bug or not. If you were Asuna's fiance to marry into an elite family and trapped 300 people in the game just to trap her as he must have done. Than he is going to have some alarm trip to a new newb player starting with name of Kirito in the starter town.

So we still don't know what happened to the original developer who created the game after the defeat but he stated he let them return and he expected all them to get out and survive. He may not like that someone has stopped his promise and trapped 300 people in the game including Asuna and may have tampered to make sure Kirito is not found or detected right away.

[frubam]

Since in this new game that PK'ing is encouraged, I'd like to hope that the Laughing whatever guild would show up at some point. I was quite interested in them after seeing them in ep 6(about the murders), and briefly with that stint with Kuradeel, but nothing much came of them. I thought that was a waste of antagonist potential(because fighting crazies is always enjoyable). Heck, I thought that Sugou had some relation to them after that creepy lick he did last ep and the encouragement of PK'ing in this new(old?) game.

Originally Posted by LoweGear

For some reason, the cappers this week forgot to take a clear version of the End Card. So I'll just give this GIF from the episode that they did make:

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I might be considered weird here, but her thighs during that scene looked absolutely delicious (^.^)! That is all...

[jpwong]

Originally Posted by molitar

Ok I have to wonder if the warp in was a bug or not. If you were Asuna's fiance to marry into an elite family and trapped 300 people in the game just to trap her as he must have done. Than he is going to have some alarm trip to a new newb player starting with name of Kirito in the starter town.

Why though? It's not like just having the name Kirito makes you some sort of god among men here. If you have the power to trap that many people in another game, you probably have some sort of GM privileges, and I feel that he isn't quite so noble as to allow a normal player to defeat him in 1 on 1 combat. I'm sure as far as he would be concerned, a normal player is like a bug going splat on your windshield in terms of it being able to stop the car.

[Kamui04]

Originally Posted by GenjiChan

Kirito: "A game where you can die is too easy"

I think people are misunderstanding that line. I think he's referring to a game where you can die as much as you want without the risk of real life death is too easy.

[~Yami~]

woohoo!! Kirito is a cheater now... I'm sure he's considered as one of the most veteran players in Alfheim online together with most SAO players as well...
I'll feel the same when I should delete all of my precious items... xD

Yui returned.... *must hold tears* *sniff* *sniff*

and finally Lyfa appeared....

Kirito is really awesome... this scene is similar when Kirito against dark guild when he protected Silica...
I really enjoy Kirito's arrogant smile

[eiyuu99]

Kirito learning to get in touch with the ground, face first.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by Kimidori

nah, I think transferring save here isn't possible unless there are code written for it. I have played some games which save become unusable after patching the game to a new version, and it the same game with the same gameplay, codebase and many thing (example: Crysis 2, Civilization V). here, we got a heavy modified game with many new gameplay and feature and also with some gameplay and feature removed, realistically, even if ALO read SAO save file, it will read it as corrupted save. as I said, I have programmed some game and everytime I add or remove a major gameplay feature (ALO here got Lv, sword skill removed and class, flying, magic skill added), I have to change the save reading code for it to read correctly, otherwise, the game could be unplayably bugged or the save not loading at all.

Again, I wouldn't think of it as "save data" (because MMOs don't have save files), but as "cache data". Cache data is information downloaded from the server and saved to the local computer's storage so that it can be loaded locally in the future instead of having to be re-downloaded. So the flaw is that the file format and encryption of the cache database is exactly the same, and even when recreating a new character it still keeps the old SAO cache data. And rather than crashing with an error when it encounters unrecognized entries in the cache database, it just doesn't know how to use it, and shows it with "???" (unusable data). I suppose, as a programmer, I could argue that maybe it should actually crash out somehow, but it's not outside the realm of possibility considering NerveGear was really only built for SAO. It's unknown if the new devices that replaced NerveGear have the same flaw or not.

So yeah, as a programmer, I do think this is conceivable if you think of it as cache data (and not save data), even though of course I don't think I would have programmed it that way. (And it also suggests that this new game was a really lazy/poor-man's copy of SAO.)

[Insane]

I'm honestly surprised that government never confiscated those microwave death helmet which had killed thousand people in SAO. Still, seeing Kirito had no qualms to wear the same Nerve Gear which had prisoned him for 2 years showing how much his love towards Asuna. Love definitely has driven you crazy, man.....

Is it just me or Kirito happened to pick such race because it's entirely consisted of people with black outfits?

[NoemiChan]

Originally Posted by Insane

I'm honestly surprised that government never confiscated those microwave death helmet which had killed thousand people in SAO. Still, seeing Kirito had no qualms to wear the same Nerve Gear which had prisoned him for 2 years showing how much his love towards Asuna. Love definitely has driven you crazy, man.....

Is it just me or Kirito happened to pick such race because it's entirely consisted of people with black outfits?

He has a fetish in black and capes...

[MrTerrorist]

Nice episode. Scenery was awesome and more great music from Yuki Kajiura.

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Again, I wouldn't think of it as "save data" (because MMOs don't have save files), but as "cache data". Cache data is information downloaded from the server and saved to the local computer's storage so that it can be loaded locally in the future instead of having to be re-downloaded. So the flaw is that the file format and encryption of the cache database is exactly the same, and even when recreating a new character it still keeps the old SAO cache data. And rather than crashing with an error when it encounters unrecognized entries in the cache database, it just doesn't know how to use it, and shows it with "???" (unusable data). I suppose, as a programmer, I could argue that maybe it should actually crash out somehow, but it's not outside the realm of possibility considering NerveGear was really only built for SAO. It's unknown if the new devices that replaced NerveGear have the same flaw or not.

So yeah, as a programmer, I do think this is conceivable if you think of it as cache data (and not save data), even though of course I don't think I would have programmed it that way. (And it also suggests that this new game was a really lazy/poor-man's copy of SAO.)

NervGear was specifically built for SAO? News to me. I thought it's just your nextgen console, with SAO being the first to bring the most potential out of it, but probably not the first game ever on the console.

Though, I'm still skeptical that such thing (skill carryover) could just happen without it being deliberately coded in. Even if it could somehow happened, it would probably bring a ton of bizarre bugs as well. Which will then attract Cardinal (assuming it's there on ALO as well), but then Cardinal would probably revert Kirito's parameter data as a "balance issue" (which I guess wouldn't happen since that would make Kirito not so awesome anymore, at least for a while).

Which probably meant all this was actually working as intended in the design in the first place.

[Insane]

Originally Posted by MrTerrorist

Nice episode. Scenery was awesome and more great music from Yuki Kajiura.

Well, it's inevitable to recognize Kajiura’s music with all those themes with chorus. Actually one of the themes during the Skull reaper fight sounded so similar to one from Xenosaga, that it’s almost a copy/paste

[orpheus2]

Originally Posted by relentlessflame

Again, I wouldn't think of it as "save data" (because MMOs don't have save files), but as "cache data". Cache data is information downloaded from the server and saved to the local computer's storage so that it can be loaded locally in the future instead of having to be re-downloaded. So the flaw is that the file format and encryption of the cache database is exactly the same, and even when recreating a new character it still keeps the old SAO cache data. And rather than crashing with an error when it encounters unrecognized entries in the cache database, it just doesn't know how to use it, and shows it with "???" (unusable data). I suppose, as a programmer, I could argue that maybe it should actually crash out somehow, but it's not outside the realm of possibility considering NerveGear was really only built for SAO. It's unknown if the new devices that replaced NerveGear have the same flaw or not.

So yeah, as a programmer, I do think this is conceivable if you think of it as cache data (and not save data), even though of course I don't think I would have programmed it that way. (And it also suggests that this new game was a really lazy/poor-man's copy of SAO.)

I have to agree there. But still, they should have at least checked it beforehand. Then again, changing the coding with little knowledge on how it will affect the system may cause some form of error or crash.

[Kamui04]

Originally Posted by Insane

Well, it's inevitable to recognize Kajiura’s music with all those themes with chorus. Actually one of the themes during the Skull reaper fight sounded so similar to one from Xenosaga, that it’s almost a copy/paste

LOL, I c what u did there.
http://randomc.net/2012/10/20/sword-...comment-884489

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

NervGear was specifically built for SAO? News to me. I thought it's just your nextgen console, with SAO being the first to bring the most potential out of it, but probably not the first game ever on the console.

I guess you're right -- I don't think the anime has said this outright, and it was just an assumption on my part. But I think the fact that ALO is a copy of SAO is the key point here.

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

Though, I'm still skeptical that such thing (skill carryover) could just happen without it being deliberately coded in. Even if it could somehow happened, it would probably bring a ton of bizarre bugs as well. Which will then attract Cardinal (assuming it's there on ALO as well), but then Cardinal would probably revert Kirito's parameter data as a "balance issue" (which I guess wouldn't happen since that would make Kirito not so awesome anymore, at least for a while).

Which probably meant all this was actually working as intended in the design in the first place.

I don't think was deliberately coded-in. Again, the key is that ALO uses the very same code as SAO, down to the point that the local cache database is identical. And it basically did bring some "bugs" -- he had an inventory full of "???" items (unrecognised cache entries), and one "???" skill (which presumably doesn't exist in ALO). It's possible that his "entry" into the world was also the result of a bug related to his cache data.

As for reverting his parameters as a balance issue... the parameters he has are valid (within acceptable parameters), just that he didn't earn them within the ALO game. So the only way for the game to recognize this would be to perform an audit of his skill point allocation and check against the server logs to confirm that he earned all the points in ALO. Yui suggests that such an audit would only be performed if it were brought to the attention of a GM. Because the game doesn't appear to have levels, the only other odd discrepancy is that his skill points won't align with his in-game play-time. Perhaps Cardinal Jr. isn't programmed to automatically check for this. It should, however, adjust the enemies Kirito encounters based on his current skill level (which is rather high). If there are no levels in this game, I am supposing that his HP/MP must also have adjusted themselves in relation to his skill level, and must also be quite high already.

All that to say, despite how he got to this point (through this cheat/exploit), I think at this point there isn't really any reason for Cardinal Jr. to think he's destroying game balance. Because he's probably one of the only people who've tried this, the current people running the game aren't necessarily aware of the need to patch the vulnerability.


(Edit: It occurred to me now that perhaps this is a better topic for the Game Mechanics & Technology thread, so if anyone wants to continue this, maybe it's better to move it over there.)

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Insane

I'm honestly surprised that government never confiscated those microwave death helmet which had killed thousand people in SAO. Still, seeing Kirito had no qualms to wear the same Nerve Gear which had prisoned him for 2 years showing how much his love towards Asuna. Love definitely has driven you crazy, man.....

Is it just me or Kirito happened to pick such race because it's entirely consisted of people with black outfits?

Yeah, I'm rather amazed that those things weren't banned. I mean any product that ends up killing thousands of users would probably get the recall . I mean sure it was more a software issue, but come on those things killed a damn lot of people.

That's probably the biggest thing that requires suspension of disbelief. Though makes me worry about people, when after the SAO incident people still ran out to buy this game. Regardless of flying, you'd have thought they'd ban any game similar to SAO.

On the positive Kirito can just blow everyone away with his stats carrying. No matter how hardcore the fan of this game they aren't going to be able to equal someone who had to spend most of 2+ years fighting for his very life inside of SAO.

[relentlessflame]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Yeah, I'm rather amazed that those things weren't banned. I mean any product that ends up killing thousands of users would probably get the recall . I mean sure it was more a software issue, but come on those things killed a damn lot of people.

That's probably the biggest thing that requires suspension of disbelief. Though makes me worry about people, when after the SAO incident people still ran out to buy this game. Regardless of flying, you'd have thought they'd ban any game similar to SAO.

Well, given all they've been through, I'm pretty sure the authorities would allow them to keep their helmets if they want, if nothing else to sort of mark or commemorate what they went through. I assume that they figure that the survivors would know the risks above all others. They could very well be forbidden from allowing anyone else to use their helmets as well.

They also mentioned that the new game uses an evolved version of NerveGear with "better security measures" so one presumes that, after RCT took over from Argus, they took the steps to ensure it was thoroughly audited by the government and whoever needed to see it to prove that it was safe. It's in their best interest anyway because they want to be able to make money off of the technology now that they own it.

[Vmem]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Yeah, I'm rather amazed that those things weren't banned. I mean any product that ends up killing thousands of users would probably get the recall . I mean sure it was more a software issue, but come on those things killed a damn lot of people.

That's probably the biggest thing that requires suspension of disbelief. Though makes me worry about people, when after the SAO incident people still ran out to buy this game. Regardless of flying, you'd have thought they'd ban any game similar to SAO.

On the positive Kirito can just blow everyone away with his stats carrying. No matter how hardcore the fan of this game they aren't going to be able to equal someone who had to spend most of 2+ years fighting for his very life inside of SAO.

I'll apologize beforehand but I strongly disagree with your opinion. what killed people in SAO was the creator's intent and the software programing, not Nervegear or VRMMO games. it's essentially the same as saying knives should be banned because they've been used to kill people on multiple occasions, the murder is the person, not the tool.

Thus, I actually find the people in SAO quite forward thinking in willing to give the genre of VRMMO and virtual reality in general another shot after the SAO incident. society can never move forward if we get too hung up on past mistakes

[EroKing]

No dual-sword wielding skill? Maybe we'll see him go TRANS-AM where his wings go red