Dies Irae/Kajiri Kamui Kagura/Paradise Lost/Senshinkan series

[Cosmic Eagle]

Yeah he is natural Atziluth user

And I don't think he was actually aware of anything other than himself throughout since he can't actually recognize anything else...

[Kirayuki]

Which is all fine until he recognized the Godly Touch of Tumor, Chuuni level increased into extremity, and recognized your Touch too.

Only Disaster was left after that.

[Reality Breaker]

So like, he just went in there, fodderized Marie and the hadou crew and took the throne for himself. Damn Hajun, you scary.

Does Zarathustra boast a human appearance in KKK like the members of his legion? I can see that after eons of growth and battle, he has gained an adult and very demonized look to him. But I wondering if he has been shown with a more human look.

[Kirayuki]

His form is just like that originally in KKK.

[shmaster]

And I am pretty sure Narak shrieked when he finds out what happened to the rest of the universe when Hajun made it on to the Throne.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by shmaster

And I am pretty sure Narak shrieked when he finds out what happened to the rest of the universe when Hajun made it on to the Throne.

Like realize for the first time ever, he could actually die...

[erneiz_hyde]

HAAAAAAHHHH, finally finished all of it!

uhm...now that it's finished I can't really find the words. Actually, I'm a bit too spent to write any detailed expressions for now. That took...what, 3 weeks? If I only count the actual days I play it, then perhaps a week and a half at most, not sure. Anyways, maybe I'll take some time to let it all sink a little bit more.

Though, maybe I'll ask this:

Spoiler:

If in Marie's route she ascended to the throne, shouldn't that mean the Eternal Recurrence is no more? How come Ren and some others can remember things from Marie's route in Rea's route (which at the time the throne is still the Snake's)?

Also, do I understand Marie's world right: it's actually quite similar to Eternal Recurrence, only this time the Goddess' embrace make it so that everyone will eventually achieve happiness. (look at how happy Anna is at Rea's route T^T)

EDIT: Also, another thing, was "Three Colors" the correct subtitle for that last route? I know it's foolish to question how a chuuni writer uses their kanjis, but, are we sure it's not a mistranslation of 三つ巴? Because if that is the original title, that doesn't translate to "three colors" but "three commas".

[Kirayuki]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

Spoiler:

If in Marie's route she ascended to the throne, shouldn't that mean the Eternal Recurrence is no more? How come Ren and some others can remember things from Marie's route in Rea's route (which at the time the throne is still the Snake's)?

Snake rewind back the time, which lead to Rea's route. You need to play KKK (Kajiri Kamui Kagura) for more info about this.

And the dejavu came back along.

Spoiler:

Also, do I understand Marie's world right: it's actually quite similar to Eternal Recurrence, only this time the Goddess' embrace make it so that everyone will eventually achieve happiness. (look at how happy Anna is at Rea's route T^T)

Not the same.

You don't repeat the same life in Goddess world. Every soul get transferred into another path of life after their life end.

For example : I think Red Anna still suffer and die instead during the "Witch Hunt", which then get reincarnated as the little Anna you see in the epilogue (She did say she felt like having more life than the others).

EDIT: Also, another thing, was "Three Colors" the correct subtitle for that last route? I know it's foolish to question how a chuuni writer uses their kanjis, but, are we sure it's not a mistranslation of 三つ巴? Because if that is the original title, that doesn't translate to "three colors" but "three commas".

I personally just call it Three Colors because of the 3 Colors = Hadou Gods fight in the end of the route. The "Mitsudomoe" can refer to "3-way struggle", and not personally fond of the name. I see some people refer to it as Machina's route instead.

[Reality Breaker]

So wait, does KKK start from Marie's route or Rea's route?

[Kirayuki]

Spoiler for Answer above:

Marie's route ---> Marie's after ---> Battle with Hajun

-Draw ? lead to Rea's route
-Lose ? lead to KKK

BTW, the official timeline of Dies is the Rea's route. KKK is treated more as an IF story.

[Reality Breaker]

Ah. And what happens during the afterstory?

[Kirayuki]

Nothing, it's pretty much Goddess's reign with Ren reuniting with the others on the rooftop of the school building.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

HAAAAAAHHHH, finally finished all of it!

uhm...now that it's finished I can't really find the words. Actually, I'm a bit too spent to write any detailed expressions for now. That took...what, 3 weeks? If I only count the actual days I play it, then perhaps a week and a half at most, not sure. Anyways, maybe I'll take some time to let it all sink a little bit more.

Though, maybe I'll ask this:

Spoiler:

If in Marie's route she ascended to the throne, shouldn't that mean the Eternal Recurrence is no more? How come Ren and some others can remember things from Marie's route in Rea's route (which at the time the throne is still the Snake's)?

Also, do I understand Marie's world right: it's actually quite similar to Eternal Recurrence, only this time the Goddess' embrace make it so that everyone will eventually achieve happiness. (look at how happy Anna is at Rea's route T^T)

EDIT: Also, another thing, was "Three Colors" the correct subtitle for that last route? I know it's foolish to question how a chuuni writer uses their kanjis, but, are we sure it's not a mistranslation of 三つ巴? Because if that is the original title, that doesn't translate to "three colors" but "three commas".

Also note that in Rea's route?

Snake just fresh from the literal battle against the most terrifying thing to ever exist in Masada-verse

[erneiz_hyde]

Okay, now that I had some time to think, I guess I'll just start with some reviews and a few questions in succession rather than writing them all at once.

Spoiler for review and questions:

So, my understanding is Marie was able to overcome Mercury's Recurrence ("overcome" means she didn't return straight to the start line after death but continues to linger) because she has a Gudou Atziluth (it can't be mere Briah if it beats Mercury's Atziluth right? And since it was Gudou, Marie didn't ascend to the throne and didn't overwrite Mercury's law). But, why exactly was Ren unaffected by this, while even the Snake got chopped off?

And in Marie's and Rea's route, Marie gradually changed into Hadou because she's pierced by Reinhart's spear right? (omg that sounds wrong ). Speaking of that spear, what exactly does it do? I can't seem to remember anyone dying a gruesome and horrible death after being pierced by it.

Also, why exactly was Ren able to access Finale, and the form after that? Am I right in thinking that Overture was actually Marie's artifact ability (since I think it was also mentioned that Overture is more Gudou than Hadou), while Finale is his own original Hadou power? And then, what exactly caused the crumbling of Valhalla during Kei's route?

Heh, that was longer than I thought

[Cosmic Eagle]

Do you mean why Ren did not ascend to the Throne?

Being stabbed allows her to feel Ren's feelings...literally it opened up her soul thus, facilitated change to Hadou.

Finale and Also Sprach Zarathustra are Hadou in nature, yes.

Crumbling of Valhalla....wasn't it from Eine Faust Scherzo? It's law is to make the dead stay dead and of course that is in opposition to Kemono's Briah

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Do you mean why Ren did not ascend to the Throne?

I meant why Ren's the only one to be immune to Marie's guillotine.

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Being stabbed allows her to feel Ren's feelings...literally it opened up her soul thus, facilitated change to Hadou.

Okay, so does the spear itself have any other use than for stabbing things with? The spear is a Briah when used by Valeria but seems to be mere Yetzirah when Reinhart uses it. Is this the only case when a Yetzirah is actually stronger than Briah? What exactly is that spear's ability?

Originally Posted by Cosmic Eagle

Crumbling of Valhalla....wasn't it from Eine Faust Scherzo? It's law is to make the dead stay dead and of course that is in opposition to Kemono's Briah

Did he change his own real Briah or did that come from Beatrice's sword?

[Kirayuki]

The "Desire" that function as the fuel and type of power unleashed during Briah or Atziluth is actually not affected by their Holy Relic. They are just a weapon and a tool to stock up the soul eaten.

Valeria's Briah basically borrow Longinuz for a temporary time, it was originally Reinhard's Holy Relic (and only him who can use it).

Reinhard's Castle crumbled due to Eine Faust Scherzo because it doesn't acknowledge dead people (which is what Reinhard's castle is all about). Came from Ren itself, not because of Beatrice's sword.

Ren is immune to guillotine because he was created as Holy Relic in the first place. He was designed to be Holy Relic that can use any Holy Relic except Longinuz. Overture and Finale both came from Ren's desire. Marie is already Atziluth by the time Dies start, it's just unknown though what is her desire that make her into a Gudou type. Also, her "curse" is not a result of her desire. She was just born with it.

And actually, I do think Marie still return to start line whenever Mercurius enact the rewind. It just after she was executed, she stayed still in the Twilight Beach until the event of Dies happening again. Note that Mercurius did mention about meeting her again is the only dejavu he loved.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

Okay, so does the spear itself have any other use than for stabbing things with? The spear is a Briah when used by Valeria but seems to be mere Yetzirah when Reinhart uses it. Is this the only case when a Yetzirah is actually stronger than Briah? What exactly is that spear's ability?

About weapons....They are scaled with the Atziluth

Ren's guilotine became universe-killing in KKK.


When Kemono uses it, it is certainly not a mere Yetzirah level thing. The only reason why it doesn't kill is only because he didn't want to.

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

And actually, I do think Marie still return to start line whenever Mercurius enact the rewind. It just after she was executed, she stayed still in the Twilight Beach until the event of Dies happening again. Note that Mercurius did mention about meeting her again is the only dejavu he loved.

Actually, I think Snake can completely override and rewind that if he wanted too, higher Taikyouku rank and all...

In fact, his rewind is the only thing that can so greatly screw with the Throne besides Naraka...

[erneiz_hyde]

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

Ren is immune to guillotine because he was created as Holy Relic in the first place.

Ah right...then, I wonder would the holy grail be affected by Marie's guillotine?

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

Marie is already Atziluth by the time Dies start, it's just unknown though what is her desire that make him into a Gudou type.

I don't quite understand this statement. Him? her? So Overture really was Gudou?
Marie seemed to achieve Atziluth right after she's born. Her desire or rather the origin of her Atziluth is the guillotine, right? She's always bound to the guillotine and to the moment it cuts heads, thus everyone touching her got sucked to that moment and got their head chopped. It's also another reason aside from her achieving Atziluth that she remains in that twilight.

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

And actually, I do think Marie still return to start line whenever Mercurius enact the rewind. It just after she was executed, she stayed still in the Twilight Beach until the event of Dies happening again.

Just what I was saying. Normally every soul returns to the start line immediately after death, but Marie's doesn't. Speaking of Rewinds, Mercurius can choose when to do that instead of automatically after his destruction like he meant to do in Rea's route?

EDIT:
wait, I just remembered something

Originally Posted by Kirayuki

The "Desire" that function as the fuel and type of power unleashed during Briah or Atziluth is actually not affected by their Holy Relic. They are just a weapon and a tool to stock up the soul eaten.

I'm quite sure it said somewhere that Briah is both the realization of the user's most inner wish and the most fitting to the Relic's.

[Cosmic Eagle]

Originally Posted by erneiz_hyde

Ah right...then, I wonder would the holy grail be affected by Marie's guillotine?


I don't quite understand this statement. Him? her? So Overture really was Gudou?
Marie seemed to achieve Atziluth right after she's born. Her desire or rather the origin of her Atziluth is the guillotine, right? She's always bound to the guillotine and to the moment it cuts heads, thus everyone touching her got sucked to that moment and got their head chopped. It's also another reason aside from her achieving Atziluth that she remains in that twilight.


Just what I was saying. Normally every soul returns to the start line immediately after death, but Marie's doesn't. Speaking of Rewinds, Mercurius can choose when to do that instead of automatically after his destruction like he meant to do in Rea's route?

Yes he can...He rewound Hajun from existence at the start of Rea route.

Overture is Gudou.

But origin of Atziluth? She is Atziluth user from the start....not anything to do with the guilotine