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quagmire · 2013-04-19, 13:03

I love how they put the new animation of the Strike's destruction in Destiny, but gave us the original scene in Seed's remaster( unless you bought the DVD set of course).

And that is the only goodie in this episode. Still just touching up the original scenes mostly with no new scenes......

S.Freedom · 2013-04-19, 14:58

After watching the episode I have one wish. That they do Luna's character some justice instead of dumbing her down. She had potential but they flushed her down the drain and had her hook up with Shin.

Skye629 · 2013-04-19, 19:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.Freedom

After watching the episode I have one wish. That they do Luna's character some justice instead of dumbing her down. She had potential but they flushed her down the drain and had her hook up with Shin.

They should have Athrun get both sisters by the ending XD

S.Freedom · 2013-04-19, 19:48

Now that would be an interesting development indeed.

Honestly I'd always secretly hoped they rebuilt the savior for Luna's use. And have a side character like Riika Shedder come in as the Impulse's new pilot. I mean it has the right color scheme and we could get some development with her removing the weakness with guns. Perhaps at the hands of Athrun so she doesn't get strangled by Shin's red string of fate.

Destined_Fate · 2013-04-19, 23:31

Spoiler:

The American Average · 2013-04-20, 01:20

Quote:

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

Spoiler:

what, i really don't get where you're going with this? what does Luna's love triangle with Shinn/Stella have to do with that?

S.Freedom · 2013-04-20, 11:53

As best I can tell it's either because I suggested Athrun would train Luna to remove her weakness with guns.* Or because I suggested I didn't like the LunaxShin pairing.

*Because heaven for bid the two characters be in the same room without Luna becoming a drooling mess over Athrun-sama right?

Gundamx · 2013-04-20, 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by S.Freedom

As best I can tell it's either because I suggested Athrun would train Luna to remove her weakness with guns.* Or because I suggested I didn't like the LunaxShin pairing.

*Because heaven for bid the two characters be in the same room without Luna becoming a drooling mess over Athrun-sama right?

http://kenkoudaa.sakura.ne.jp/page224.html
choose first choice for the lolz

Aquaman OS · 2013-04-20, 15:49

Funny thing is Cagalli isn't exactly wrong. It was because Zaft made the second stage Gundam's that Phantom Pain was able to steal them, and thus cause the lead in to the war again.

Junius 7 might still have happened, but no PP to take footage of it, and with the Minerva with all Gundam's on board intercepting they might have stopped it entirely.

Of course that might have been exactly why Durandal made them.

monster · 2013-04-20, 16:06

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Of course that might have been exactly why Durandal made them.

Hmm, you know, the fact that Phantom Pain didn't even know about the Impulse does make it seem like the other three mobile suits were "discovered" via a controlled leak of information.

Aquaman OS · 2013-04-20, 16:22

Yeah. People suspected that from day one of the original airing.

Washu-Chan · 2013-04-20, 17:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

Yeah. People suspected that from day one of the original airing.

What did the TSA found in Durandal's house:

Spoiler:

And Lacus's plan to use it against Durandal:

S.Freedom · 2013-04-20, 19:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gundamx

http://kenkoudaa.sakura.ne.jp/page224.html
choose first choice for the lolz

Oh god I needed that laugh.

Seriously Kira is such a pimp getting both of the Hawk sister while Shinn/Athrun get nothing. I suppose he's just that awesome to get three chicks like that.

@monster Like I said, the combination of the EA stealing the Abyss, Giaia, Chaos with Junius 7's fall happened way to close together for the two events to be completely coincidental.

Aquaman OS · 2013-04-20, 20:27

Oh there's more than enough hints that Durandal essentially orchestrated the entire war, to give a reason to get rid of Logos and force his Destiny Plan in place. The series just never confirmed any of it and instead forgot about most of these early plot hooks.

But since people hate Kira and want him to be evil, they use that as an excuse that Durandal must be innocent because there isn't enough evidence to try him in a court of law (which is freaking ridiculous because this isn't real life for one, and two there have been tons of Gundam villains that played people and got away with it. Stringing people along to do the dirty work for you isn't technically a crime.)

Like the team that first attacked Kira. Durandal is really the only possible culprit barring some unnamed other party that never made another move for the rest of the series, but they stubbornly insist that because the show never outright confirmed it, he therefore must be innocent.

I really hope the Remaster at least outright confirms whether Durandal did any of this so there can be no more hiding.

aeriolewinters · 2013-04-20, 20:41

the damage has been done already. if it was done on 2004, it would've been at least satisfying and would've set up things correctly.

Aquaman OS · 2013-04-20, 22:02

Then again the fact that they added Rey saying "Your service is no longer needed" before blowing Djbril away in the Special Edition kind of made that point clear already.

Skye629 · 2013-04-20, 23:14

Everything pointed towards Durandal as the puppet master behind the scenes

But I would say his plan was risky, he more or less was gambling on the fact that Logos and the Federation would act as he predicted, and of course Lacus and Co were wild cards (which he did obviously had multiple plans for)

Aquaman OS · 2013-04-20, 23:24

True, although Djbril was insanely easy to predict. He'd just keep on throwing out atrocity after atrocity and pretty much painted the perfect picture of Durandal being the good guy.

With Lacus, he seemed to try to immediately kill her with that hit squad, so that his fake Lacus would be unopposed. But even after they got away he knew that so long as he sent Minerva against Orb Kira would interfere regardless of how it would make him look, making it all the easier for him to order Freedom destroyed without looking like the bad guy. And Kira's intefering would make Shinn hate him all the more, so his own personal super Gundam pilot would get the drive to beat him.

As for Athrun, he clearly wanted Athrun on his side and did his best to play on his sympathy's and daddy issues (note in the latest ep how he gets Talia to mention they have no more MS pilots and then looks at Athrun afterwards.) But Athrun was too loyal to Kira and company. But by the time he had had enough it was seemingly too late and Athrun had nobody to help him, allowing Shinn to easily pick him off during his escape. And Athrun really in the end was a minor player while he was with Durandal.

His only really flaw was underestimating Kira and Athrun's Jesus skills that let them survive cockpit stabs. Kira survived, made it to save Lacus, got SF, and suddenly Durandal had a major thorn in his side.

RES-01 Perses Gundam · 2013-04-20, 23:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skye629

Everything pointed towards Durandal as the puppet master behind the scenes

But I would say his plan was risky, he more or less was gambling on the fact that Logos and the Federation would act as he predicted, and of course Lacus and Co were wild cards (which he did obviously had multiple plans for)

Well, it was harder for Logos/EF not to do what he had predicted of them to. Being extremists, there's a certain degree of predictability to their behaviour. It's as if Logos/EF were a monster run amok, and Durandal/ZAFT had the tranquilizer to stop it. By deliberating missing his shots, he only served to antagonise the monster further, and by controlling the number of shots he missed, he could affect the amount of devastation that the monster is about to unleash. And when Logos/EF served its purpose, all Durandal really had to do was to aim at its heart (Logos) and every bit of resistance the EF could summon falls apart.

Gundamx · 2013-04-21, 00:47

Djbril was sooo useless as final boss(or even mid boss) unlike Muruta Azrael...

2013-04-19, 14:58	Link #6482
S.Freedom Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: On the edge of insanity Age: 44	After watching the episode I have one wish. That they do Luna's character some justice instead of dumbing her down. She had potential but they flushed her down the drain and had her hook up with Shin. Last edited by S.Freedom; 2013-04-19 at 17:21.

2013-04-19, 19:48	Link #6484
S.Freedom Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: On the edge of insanity Age: 44	Now that would be an interesting development indeed. Honestly I'd always secretly hoped they rebuilt the savior for Luna's use. And have a side character like Riika Shedder come in as the Impulse's new pilot. I mean it has the right color scheme and we could get some development with her removing the weakness with guns. Perhaps at the hands of Athrun so she doesn't get strangled by Shin's red string of fate. Last edited by S.Freedom; 2013-04-19 at 21:46.

2013-04-19, 23:31	Link #6485
Destined_Fate Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2011 Location: "Sacrifice one to appease the few."	Spoiler: No it wouldn't. It was never there in the first place anyway and with the special edition material there's a high chance that there will be even less Lunamaria having a crush on Athrun and more scenes of her, from SD, being jealous of Stellar getting all of Shinn's attention. Besides, her hooking up with Shinn over halfway through the series has nothing to do with her potential being squandered by the guys in charge as she wasn't getting the star treatment anyway long before they became a couple. If anything her lowest moments in Destiny was when she was crushing on her idol Athrun whom she didn't even love as a person, only that he was her idol. That and she never had a chance at all considering that Cagalli exists and the fact that Athrun has never shown any romantic feelings for anyone but Cagalli. Hence why Athrun snapped so hard later in Destiny because of Cagalli's "betrayal" as he loved her and she hurt him so much as she didn't even feel that he had the right to know. It's as if she thought Athrun would take it better if he found out later that she's married and sleeping with Yuna and since she's married he would just let her go.

2013-04-20, 20:41	Link #6495
aeriolewinters Photomancy Experiments Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Balanga City, Bataan, Philippines	the damage has been done already. if it was done on 2004, it would've been at least satisfying and would've set up things correctly. __________________

2013-04-19, 13:03	Link #6481
quagmire Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2010	I love how they put the new animation of the Strike's destruction in Destiny, but gave us the original scene in Seed's remaster( unless you bought the DVD set of course). And that is the only goodie in this episode. Still just touching up the original scenes mostly with no new scenes......

2013-04-20, 11:53	Link #6487
S.Freedom Senior Member Join Date: Dec 2012 Location: On the edge of insanity Age: 44	As best I can tell it's either because I suggested Athrun would train Luna to remove her weakness with guns.* Or because I suggested I didn't like the LunaxShin pairing. *Because heaven for bid the two characters be in the same room without Luna becoming a drooling mess over Athrun-sama right?

2013-04-20, 15:49	Link #6489
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	Funny thing is Cagalli isn't exactly wrong. It was because Zaft made the second stage Gundam's that Phantom Pain was able to steal them, and thus cause the lead in to the war again. Junius 7 might still have happened, but no PP to take footage of it, and with the Minerva with all Gundam's on board intercepting they might have stopped it entirely. Of course that might have been exactly why Durandal made them.

2013-04-20, 16:22	Link #6491
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	Yeah. People suspected that from day one of the original airing.

2013-04-20, 20:27	Link #6494
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	Oh there's more than enough hints that Durandal essentially orchestrated the entire war, to give a reason to get rid of Logos and force his Destiny Plan in place. The series just never confirmed any of it and instead forgot about most of these early plot hooks. But since people hate Kira and want him to be evil, they use that as an excuse that Durandal must be innocent because there isn't enough evidence to try him in a court of law (which is freaking ridiculous because this isn't real life for one, and two there have been tons of Gundam villains that played people and got away with it. Stringing people along to do the dirty work for you isn't technically a crime.) Like the team that first attacked Kira. Durandal is really the only possible culprit barring some unnamed other party that never made another move for the rest of the series, but they stubbornly insist that because the show never outright confirmed it, he therefore must be innocent. I really hope the Remaster at least outright confirms whether Durandal did any of this so there can be no more hiding.

2013-04-20, 22:02	Link #6496
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	Then again the fact that they added Rey saying "Your service is no longer needed" before blowing Djbril away in the Special Edition kind of made that point clear already.

2013-04-20, 23:14	Link #6497
Skye629 Senior Member Join Date: Sep 2011	Everything pointed towards Durandal as the puppet master behind the scenes But I would say his plan was risky, he more or less was gambling on the fact that Logos and the Federation would act as he predicted, and of course Lacus and Co were wild cards (which he did obviously had multiple plans for)

2013-04-20, 23:24	Link #6498
Aquaman OS Senior Member Join Date: Feb 2008	True, although Djbril was insanely easy to predict. He'd just keep on throwing out atrocity after atrocity and pretty much painted the perfect picture of Durandal being the good guy. With Lacus, he seemed to try to immediately kill her with that hit squad, so that his fake Lacus would be unopposed. But even after they got away he knew that so long as he sent Minerva against Orb Kira would interfere regardless of how it would make him look, making it all the easier for him to order Freedom destroyed without looking like the bad guy. And Kira's intefering would make Shinn hate him all the more, so his own personal super Gundam pilot would get the drive to beat him. As for Athrun, he clearly wanted Athrun on his side and did his best to play on his sympathy's and daddy issues (note in the latest ep how he gets Talia to mention they have no more MS pilots and then looks at Athrun afterwards.) But Athrun was too loyal to Kira and company. But by the time he had had enough it was seemingly too late and Athrun had nobody to help him, allowing Shinn to easily pick him off during his escape. And Athrun really in the end was a minor player while he was with Durandal. His only really flaw was underestimating Kira and Athrun's Jesus skills that let them survive cockpit stabs. Kira survived, made it to save Lacus, got SF, and suddenly Durandal had a major thorn in his side.

2013-04-21, 00:47	Link #6500
Gundamx Senior Member Join Date: Mar 2010	Djbril was sooo useless as final boss(or even mid boss) unlike Muruta Azrael...