Dating

[ChainLegacy]

You might not be bad but I doubt you'll be... proficient first time around. Like everything else, takes a little practice. So if you goof up don't feel bad about it imo.

[Samari]

I chuckle when I think of my first time. Everyone is different of course. But I would assume that most folks don't know what they're doing completely/are nervous regardless of how much research both partners may have done previous to the experience. It is what it is though.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by Moczo

And my experiences have told me that I've had any number of female friends and there sure weren't any sparks (or at least not any reciprocated ones) so maybe actively seeking for once isn't all that bad an idea. I'm glad that your approach has worked out well for you, but thus far it's left me awfully dateless.

Though I'll admit, it could just be that I'm getting to the point where a toss around the sheets for a few weeks is starting to sound pretty appealing.

This is an experience echoed by a number of guys. Perhaps it's different between men and women, as women (like Syn and RB) are solely motivated by whether there is a spark. Men are more of a "Hmm, could possibly be something, but we won't know until we date." Whereas women don't tend to date unless they feel something first.

And generally speaking, waiting around works better for women, as I'd bet the number of women that get men approaching them is higher than the number of men that get women approaching them.

Edit for something amusing:

Hickey Partially Paralyzes Woman

Be careful, guys!

[synaesthetic]

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a toss in the sheets that only last a few weeks! Some of those ended up becoming good friends!

... that I, alas, no longer have sex with.

Also, I give up on trying to get you guys to understand what I'm saying. You're acting like we do nothing but stand around and look hot, beating off mobs of men with sticks!

Nothing could be further than the truth, and you know, I am gay. Automatically I have a harder time finding a partner than every man on here simply due to the fact that only 10% (15% if you're really optimistic) of the women out there would even be receptive in the first place! You dudes could potentially date 9 out of 10 women, while I get (at the very best) that remaining one. *facepalm*

Fortunately I am no longer on the market.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

You're acting like we do nothing but stand around and look hot, beating off mobs of men with sticks!

You mean that's not why women carry around such huge purses?

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Whereas women don't tend to date unless they feel something first.

Speaking personally on this point...

All I can say is I very rarely make a move unless I feel something because to me, agreeing to go out with someone when you know you don't feel anything romantic for them is, in a way, a little cruel. I know my feelings and my thoughts, and I know that once I feel a certain way about someone, there's very little that can be done to change my feelings for them. Hence why I, personally, never acted on something unless I had feelings already: because to me, taking that risk only for it to fall flat could be even worse than staying strictly friends.

Just my two cents on it.

[Tsuyoshi]

Originally Posted by Zaseka

I'm more baffled as to why you'd even tell them, it's a personal thing, so unless you are best buddies with your parents I wouldn't go there. I may be biased though, 15 year olds having sex is nothing out of the ordinary here.

There's really no use in her keeping it a secret if you ask me. Word gets out. Word always gets out. I would guess her parents would appreciate it a lot more if word came from her mouth before anyone else's. Whether they will be disappointed by the fact or go "meh" doesn't matter. What matters is that their daughter is open, and ideally, a family shouldn't hide things from each other.

[Nightbat®]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Nothing could be further than the truth, and you know, I am gay. Automatically I have a harder time finding a partner than every man on here simply due to the fact that only 10% (15% if you're really optimistic) of the women out there would even be receptive in the first place! You dudes could potentially date 9 out of 10 women, while I get (at the very best) that remaining one. *facepalm*

Ok a challenge:
we both stand in a public location where people of our prefered sexual preference come
and at the end of the evening we'll compare who had the most people 'come on' to them
-No, waiters don't count

You apparently missed that the male/female ratio in 'Hotspots' is about 25-3
2 of those ladies already involved with someone
Perhaps if I shave, put on lipstick and try to trick the bouncer by blowing a kiss
I could go to "Ladies night" where the ratio would be much more in my favor

[Flinch]

Originally Posted by Tsuyoshi

There's really no use in her keeping it a secret if you ask me. Word gets out. Word always gets out. I would guess her parents would appreciate it a lot more if word came from her mouth before anyone else's. Whether they will be disappointed by the fact or go "meh" doesn't matter. What matters is that their daughter is open, and ideally, a family shouldn't hide things from each other.

And the ideal family is a myth, which all families usually try to live up to. But that's me being pessimistic. I completely agree with Tsuyoshi's point, here. You try and keep it a secret, it will work its way out, one way or another. And the more open a family is, the stronger the bonds and more accepting they are of each other.

[Irkalla]

Originally Posted by Tsuyoshi

There's really no use in her keeping it a secret if you ask me. Word gets out. Word always gets out. I would guess her parents would appreciate it a lot more if word came from her mouth before anyone else's. Whether they will be disappointed by the fact or go "meh" doesn't matter. What matters is that their daughter is open, and ideally, a family shouldn't hide things from each other.

As there is no need to tell them. She shouldn't feel compelled to tell them, that is like seeking their permission to have sex from now on. That spells insecurity for me personally. If you wanna show your parents that you are old and mature enough for sex, don't ask for their opinion before taking steps/progressing. If you wanna tell them, tell them casually, don't start like, "omg I have something to confess that you might not like." It's not about keeping secrets, it's about having some privacy for sanity's sake. Be mature, be responsible, don't seek your parents guidance on sex, it will just make them think you are still a clueless baby. The best thing would just be for them to come to you when they start to notice things like a bf for an example. And before somebody goes smartass on me, no that does not go for things like drugs or anything of the sort. Sex drive comes natural to us.

[TWWK]

Originally Posted by cheyannew

Nope; didn't miss a thing I'm married and have a gf (who is also my ex bf's wife); we ended up having to make a topic to clear the confusion LOL that's over here. I think most people who post in this thread're just used to it by now

:O

Thanks for the link...very interesting. :P

[Neat Hedgehog]

Originally Posted by Zaseka

Be mature, be responsible, don't seek your parents guidance on sex, it will just make them think you are still a clueless baby. The best thing would just be for them to come to you when they start to notice things like a bf for an example..

Yeah, because at the age of 15, everyone already knows everything about sex and relationships, and obviously needs no advice from their parents who have probably never even had sex and therefore obviously have nothing to contribute in the way of advice.

-_-

[Irkalla]

Originally Posted by Neat Hedgehog

Yeah, because at the age of 15, everyone already knows everything about sex and relationships, and obviously needs no advice from their parents who have probably never even had sex and therefore obviously have nothing to contribute in the way of advice.

-_-

You are so not getting the point. Going for sex advices to your parents after actually having sex is a really bad idea, they will think you weren't ready and bitch to no end. Do you really want to put the girl through that? She just wants to be honest with them, sure, she can tell them casually, but not in a manner that would indicate that she went into it unprepared. Besides that, parents are not the only place you can get sex intel from, heck google is a much better bet, friends, even your teachers. Don't they teach you sex ed in school?

[Simon]

Originally Posted by Zaseka

Going for sex advices to your parents after actually having sex is a really bad idea, they will think you weren't ready and bitch to no end. Do you really want to put the girl through that? She just wants to be honest with them, sure, she can tell them casually, but not in a manner that would indicate that she went into it unprepared.

I don't have kids of my own, but enough of my mates have teenage daughters that I think I can see things from a parent's perspective. Unless her parents are religious (in which case all bets are off), it's not sex per se that's the issue - it's their child's well-being. I'd want to know that my daughter wasn't putting her health at risk and that she could handle the emotional aspects of a sexual relationship. In particular, having been a teenage boy myself and knowing all the sleazy tricks they try, I'd want to be confident that she was having sex by choice and not because her bf or peers had pressured her into it.

But even if her situation wasn't ideal, I'd certainly rather that she talked to me than kept it hidden and struggled to deal with the consequences. Better "dad, I know you don't want to hear this but I've started having sex and I want to go on the pill" than "dad, I know you don't want to hear this but I'm pregnant."

There's also another issue: isn't sex supposed to be a good thing, and finding someone to share it with a happy occasion? If I was a parent I'd want to earn my kids' trust so they felt they could tell me what was going on in their lives - sure, I wouldn't want to know the details, but I wouldn't want them to tip-toe round the issue feeling needless guilt either.

Of course I have no idea what OP's family situation is, so none of this may apply in her case.

[cheyannew]

Who on earth is saying the parents ought be told to be asking for guidance? It's more in the spirit of letting your folks know what's going on in your life, especially at a young age when THEY are legally responsible for you, should something happen.

By no means do I require my kids to tell me EVERYTHING, but I certainly hope when they're ready to take the plunge into a sexual relationship, they'll let me know. They don't need permission (they'll do it anyway whether or not they have it, I wasn't 15 THAT long ago ffs), but we do have a rapport that I enjoy; they have yet to NOT come to me with issues or just a "Hey here's what's going on right now", and I hope that doesn't change when they take the step to become sexually active. I've given them the talks, they have access to computers, and I've flat out said I'm happy to nab pills/condoms/whatever for them, if they would like (however if it's cause they're embarrassed, I maintain they shouldn't be having sex. I meant more of a to avoid the pharmacist refusing them or whatever cause they're a kid, etc).

Having sex is no reason to be embarrassed. However, giving your folks a heads up to say "Hey, fyi I'm sexually active", while not required, is considered a considerate thing to do. Goddess forbid something happen, you catch some STD (which can happen even if condoms are used) and then you'd have to tell them anyway. Most parents would end up being more disappointed you didn't tell them you were active in the first place.

I say the above realizing I am *NOT* a typical parent, and my kids have NOT had a typical upbringing, though.

[Neat Hedgehog]

Originally Posted by Zaseka

You are so not getting the point. Going for sex advices to your parents after actually having sex is a really bad idea, they will think you weren't ready and bitch to no end. Do you really want to put the girl through that? She just wants to be honest with them, sure, she can tell them casually, but not in a manner that would indicate that she went into it unprepared. Besides that, parents are not the only place you can get sex intel from, heck google is a much better bet, friends, even your teachers. Don't they teach you sex ed in school?

So, it's somehow wrong to admit that you don't know everything, and that maybe you could use a little advice? Have you never done anything and then sought advice on it after the fact because maybe, just maybe, you thought you might be able to do it better next time if you get as much input on the matter as you can (or care to)?

The attitude which you are presenting here of "show no weakness" indicates fear, much like a deer who cannot afford to lose step with the herd for fear of being singled out and killed. This is not the kind of relationship you should have with your parents, or anyone. You should not be afraid to admit inexperience because you think the people you're telling will lay into you like a mack truck.

If you can't ask for advice, or even just talk openly, about things like sex, then either you, or the people you are talking to, are mentally and emotionally immature. Period.

Do you really want to put the girl through that?

I'm not putting anyone through anything. I'm just some guy writing on a forum.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

Also, I give up on trying to get you guys to understand what I'm saying. You're acting like we do nothing but stand around and look hot, beating off mobs of men with sticks!

Calm down, Syn, we actually do understand, heh. No, not all women get men coming up to (or onto) them. It's not like [heterosexual] women turn dates down 5 times a day. It's just that women, in general, don't tend to make the move first unless they feel a spark. Whereas men will make a move if they feel even the slightest inclination of a possibility, since they don't know where the relationship could end up going.

It's just a difference between the sexes on a general level.

And yes, we understand that you, Syn, as a primarily lesbian, would have more issues finding someone because your dating pool is small. I probably shouldn't have specifically named you in my last post, since I was going more towards women in general who are also generally more attracted to men, heh.

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

Speaking personally on this point...

All I can say is I very rarely make a move unless I feel something because to me, agreeing to go out with someone when you know you don't feel anything romantic for them is, in a way, a little cruel. I know my feelings and my thoughts, and I know that once I feel a certain way about someone, there's very little that can be done to change my feelings for them. Hence why I, personally, never acted on something unless I had feelings already: because to me, taking that risk only for it to fall flat could be even worse than staying strictly friends.

Just my two cents on it.

There is a risk in anything we do. As I said, the difference between the sexes is that men are generally more willing to take that risk, even if it ends badly. From our perspective, we don't know how things will end up unless we try, and not even taking the chance to see, is dooming things to fail right from the start. Maybe the feelings will grow, and maybe they will fade; who knows?

That's where the general male feelings come from. And if they don't act on those small feelings, then you get the nice guys that some people were complaining about earlier. The ones who never take a chance, never ask someone out, and just hope she comes to love them. That's someone zebra complained about, wishing they'd at least ask her out to coffee and/or a movie. And I think, deep down, most women want the man to make the move. I think most people who find themselves loving someone in secret, wish that person would make the move.

For better or worse, that's how our society has developed, with the men assuming most of the risk of making the first move. Or at least, the pressure to do so.

And speaking for myself, I am capable of remaining friends with someone I dated, so it's purely a personal emotional issue. There have been a few I ended on good terms with, mostly because they were willing to keep being friends with me. So it's entirely possible to do, depending on where the two people are on an emotional maturity level. I already do continue to talk to people I have been intimate with on varying levels. All it takes is a "Okay, so we didn't work out; we know that now. But we don't need to let that stop us from being friends."

And sometimes, the intimacy leads to a better friendship. Once two people have been intimate (and not just in the physical sense), that carries over to a level of emotional trust, because the barriers have been broken down. Thus, they can at least share things with each other, knowing they won't get back together.

Unless one subscribes to the "Men and women can't be friends, because the sex part always gets in the way" thing that I think Billy Crystal said in the movie When Harry Met Sally, heh.

[cheyannew]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

And speaking for myself, I am capable of remaining friends with someone I dated, so it's purely a personal emotional issue. There have been a few I ended on good terms with, mostly because they were willing to keep being friends with me. So it's entirely possible to do, depending on where the two people are on an emotional maturity level. I already do continue to talk to people I have been intimate with on varying levels. All it takes is a "Okay, so we didn't work out; we know that now. But we don't need to let that stop us from being friends."

And sometimes, the intimacy leads to a better friendship. Once two people have been intimate (and not just in the physical sense), that carries over to a level of emotional trust, because the barriers have been broken down. Thus, they can at least share things with each other, knowing they won't get back together.

Actually, I agree with this.. I'm actually friends with a number of my exes, though for most of us, the rekindling of friendship happened years after the breakup (as the breakups were usually pretty bad, the worst made me go into therapy, and him become a hermit for nearly 2 years, that's my "bf in law", aka my gf's hubby).
We all learned that while being a couple was a bad idea (tm), being friends is great, and we should've STAYED friends hehe.
I do know that for many, myself included, becoming intimate with someone does tend to change things; even if you're just friends, it becomes a... deeper level? of friendship? for lack of a better term. And I don't mean just having sex, either; there's some things you share with a partner you dont' share with regular friends.

[Moczo]

Originally Posted by synaesthetic

There's absolutely nothing wrong with a toss in the sheets that only last a few weeks! Some of those ended up becoming good friends!

... that I, alas, no longer have sex with.

Also, I give up on trying to get you guys to understand what I'm saying. You're acting like we do nothing but stand around and look hot, beating off mobs of men with sticks!

Nothing could be further than the truth, and you know, I am gay. Automatically I have a harder time finding a partner than every man on here simply due to the fact that only 10% (15% if you're really optimistic) of the women out there would even be receptive in the first place! You dudes could potentially date 9 out of 10 women, while I get (at the very best) that remaining one. *facepalm*

Fortunately I am no longer on the market.

*sigh* Maybe I didn't explain myself properly. I understand what you are saying: it's best to just go out, make friends, and let romance happen once you've befriended the girl and gotten to know her. And intellectually, I completely agree with that. I think it sounds really nice.

But what I'm saying is that it doesn't work for everyone, y'know? All people are unique. I personally take longer than most people to warm up to others to the point I call them 'friends'. And by the time that a girl is a 'friend', it seems almost universally that either she no longer considers me a romantic option, or I consider her almost too much like family to pursue. Whatever the case, any spark that might have been there is long extinguished.

I'm not saying I intend to go out on the town, walk up to random women, and cheerfully ask for sex in the first three minutes. I'm saying that maybe in my case, after I meet someone and have a good initial conversation with them, the next thing I say needs to be less, 'we should talk again', and more 'hey, are you free this weekend? Let's grab dinner'. Ignite that spark into something before it goes out, and become her lover and friend simultaneously, rather than one at a time.

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by cheyannew

I do know that for many, myself included, becoming intimate with someone does tend to change things; even if you're just friends, it becomes a... deeper level? of friendship? for lack of a better term. And I don't mean just having sex, either; there's some things you share with a partner you dont' share with regular friends.

Yeah, this pretty much. Once I have shared some intimate things with someone, which takes a level of trust to do, I'm more apt to share with them other things in the future that I wouldn't even tell a best friend. Once you've already crossed the threshold, there is less fear about holding things back. You two have already shared practically everything anyway, so what is there to fear?

So I suppose that's a large reason why I don't see too many issues with dating a friend. Even if it doesn't work out, it can at least lead to a more fulfilling friendship, if they are emotionally mature enough to handle it.

Originally Posted by Moczo

I'm not saying I intend to go out on the town, walk up to random women, and cheerfully ask for sex in the first three minutes. I'm saying that maybe in my case, after I meet someone and have a good initial conversation with them, the next thing I say needs to be less, 'we should talk again', and more 'hey, are you free this weekend? Let's grab dinner'. Ignite that spark into something before it goes out, and become her lover and friend simultaneously, rather than one at a time.

The problem between men and women, are the different ways they approach this. Women make up their minds very early on, as to whether someone will be a friend or a potential lover. To a man, every women is a potential friend *and* a potential lover. So society has shaped men to pretty much hit on a new woman from the get go, because society has shown them they don't have a chance otherwise. If women find it irritating that men they hardly know keep hitting on them, this is why.