Little Busters - Episode 18 Discussion / Poll

[Marcus H.]

Like someone said in this thread,people took that statement to literally. LOL

Can you blame us? We anime-only people can only cling to the words said in the anime series to base our judgment.

[Zankoku12]

Originally Posted by Marcus H.

Can you blame us? We anime-only people can only cling to the words said in the anime series to base our judgment.

When it come to anime original that isn't even in the VN,I'm as much as a anime-only watcher as you're

Anyway,what I want to say is there're plenty of way to intercept Haruka's words rather than just "Oh I'm so happy right now so the world is also full of fluffy stuffs,flowers and rainbows".

[Reckoner]

Originally Posted by Tempester

On another note, it's interesting to see how the post numbers of Little Busters's episode threads have spiked for Haruka's route compared to the previous episodes. Whatever opinion you may have of this route, the insane melodrama certainly makes it entertaining in a way.

I honestly think Haruka may have the best route in the VN barring Rin + Refrain. Think the anime did mostly fine in getting it adapted too, though I guess it could've used another episode.

[Enternal]

Originally Posted by Tempester

And so ends the worst route of the VN and by far the absolute worst part of the anime. Klash has already elaborated quite well on how much the anime staff screwed up on this route. I'm looking forward to Kud's route; whether it is done well or not, reading Animesuki's reactions will be very entertaining.

One thing about Haruka's route that really grated on me in the VN, and was pretty much the same here, was Haruka's life-changing statement: "There are no bad people in this world." Oh, really? What about the extended family members who made your childhood (and your sister's too) a living hell and possibly scarred you psychologically for life? Just because that one sister wasn't quite as much of a bitch as you thought she was (she was still a terrible person, though), doesn't make the world a nice place filled with well-meaning people. I realize that it's important for Haruka to move on with her life and not dwell on the past, and that taking revenge on her family may be overkill, but completely disregarding everything is just jarring.

On another note, it's interesting to see how the post numbers of Little Busters's episode threads have spiked for Haruka's route compared to the previous episodes. Whatever opinion you may have of this route, the insane melodrama certainly makes it entertaining in a way.

I'm very interested in this. How so? Why is she still a terrible person? Her actions are explained. Klash even explained it further what her intentions was so how come she's still a terrible person? What do you think she should have done? It seems that I'm willing to hurt myself and act evil just so that I can protect my important sister seems to be lost along the way to some, even though it was explicitly stated.

Originally Posted by Zankoku12

When it come to anime original that isn't even in the VN,I'm as much as a anime-only watcher as you're

Anyway,what I want to say is there're plenty of way to intercept Haruka's words rather than just "Oh I'm so happy right now so the world is also full of fluffy stuffs,flowers and rainbows".

This. If you're saying that because you're an anime watcher, you took that literally. So what does the VN player do when they read that on the screen? Took it literally as well? The only difference is the medium. When a character in a book say "The stars have fell done on this day..." do you take it literally or think about it? Now if there's an adaptation and the character said the same thing, are you going to expect to see stars falling down? Of course not!

[Triple_R]

Klash and Tempester - I'm kind of relieved that you guys have picked apart this episode/arc yourselves, because I was starting to wonder if there was something wrong with me for being the only person on this thread (for the first three or four pages) to have major issues with this episode.

Originally Posted by Tempester

One thing about Haruka's route that really grated on me in the VN, and was pretty much the same here, was Haruka's life-changing statement: "There are no bad people in this world." Oh, really? What about the extended family members who made your childhood (and your sister's too) a living hell and possibly scarred you psychologically for life?

Yeah, I brought that up earlier on this thread myself.

Just to be clear, I'm not saying that "There are no evil people in the world" is entirely without philosophical merit. I also think this idea would work as a reasonably good theme for a certain type of narrative.

... But a narrative in which you have an almost cartoonishly evil family viciously abusing the person who comes to that thematic conclusion? That's pretty self-defeating if you ask me, lol.

Just because that one sister wasn't quite as much of a bitch as you thought she was (she was still a terrible person, though),

It's interesting to see how polarized opinions on Kanata are.

Morally speaking, I think she's somewhat similar to a person who steals a loaf of bread to feed his/her starving family.

On the one hand, what practical choice did she have? Like the bread-stealer, it's either commit a bad deed or risk a family member dying.

But then, there is the principle of the thing. Stealing harms someone, and what Kanata repeatedly did to Haruka clearly harmed her, and I think there was some collateral fallout from it to (in other words, there were innocent victims caught in the crossfire between Kanata and Haruka).

Kanata should feel sorry for hurting her sister, even if it was for a good cause. If Kanata just flippantly went, "Well, of course I was a bitch to you. Otherwise you would have been killed, girl!", I would see her in a more negative light.

But since she was sincerely apologetic about it, I don't think she's a terrible person. I think she's a good person at heart.

On another note, it's interesting to see how the post numbers of Little Busters's episode threads have spiked for Haruka's route compared to the previous episodes. Whatever opinion you may have of this route, the insane melodrama certainly makes it entertaining in a way.

Kanata is a very entertaining character. Haruka is equally entertaining when she's feuding with her sister. It makes for gloriously hammy acting.

Kanata is also more interesting to me than any of the main heroines. Kyousuke is probably the only character in this show that I find more interesting than Kanata, at least at this juncture.

But I will admit that Kanata's emotional breakdown in this episode was a touch more melodramatic than what I'd like.

[Enternal]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

Klash and Tempester - I'm kind of relieved that you guys have picked apart this episode/arc yourselves, because I was starting to wonder if there was something wrong with me for being the only person on this thread (for the first three or four pages) to have major issues with this episode.

Hehe I thought the same thing. There were major issues but... I still end up loving the episode. The weather thing though... still bothers me lol.

Morally speaking, I think she's somewhat similar to a person who steals a loaf of bread to feed his/her starving family.

On the one hand, what practical choice did she have? Like the bread-stealer, it's either commit a bad deed or risk a family member dying.

But then, there is the principle of the thing. Stealing harms someone, and what Kanata repeatedly did to Haruka clearly harmed her, and I think there was some collateral fallout from it to (in other words, there were innocent victims caught in the crossfire between Kanata and Haruka).

Kanata should feel sorry for hurting her sister, even if it was for a good cause. If Kanata just flippantly went, "Well, of course I was a bitch to you. Otherwise you would have been killed, girl!", I would see her in a more negative light.

But since she was sincerely apologetic about it, I don't think she's a terrible person. I think she's a good person at heart.

Exactly this. She did not expect any forgiveness from Haruka. She just pretty much cries her eyes out expecting that Haruka will continue to hate her but it's fine as long as Haruka lives. But Haruka does forgive her. Such strong bonds...

Kanata is a very entertaining character. Haruka is equally entertaining when she's feuding with her sister. It makes for gloriously hammy acting.

Kanata is also more interesting to me than any of the main heroines. Kyousuke is probably the only character in this show that I find more interesting than Kanata, at least at this juncture.

But I will admit that Kanata's emotional breakdown in this episode was a touch more melodramatic than what I'd like.

It was a bit melodramatic but I think it's reasonable since it's something she's been holding for how long? She's clearly not the type that expresses her emotions easily and instead holds them in unlike Haruka who's like a torrent at times lol!

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Enternal

Exactly this. She did not expect any forgiveness from Haruka. She just pretty much cries her eyes out expecting that Haruka will continue to hate her but it's fine as long as Haruka lives. But Haruka does forgive her. Such strong bonds...

I thought that much was very well-handled. Kanata not expecting any forgiveness from Haruka, and Haruka surprising her by hugging her from behind and forgiving her.

That much was genuinely beautiful. It's for that bit alone that I can understand people loving this episode.

[Zankoku12]

I've issues with pretty much every episodes but I'm too fed up to pick on every little thing and compared it to the VN. I guess I've already gave up on the show mentally and now just trying to be optimistic while watching it

But I'm happy people talking about its story and characters here with depth unlike other places where they just "Okay,decent arc...NOW BRING KUD ON ALREADY" .......

Also,I wonder if Kanata being a tsundere have crossed anyone's mind

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Zankoku12

Also,I wonder if Kanata being a tsundere have crossed anyone's mind

I thought she was tsundere for Riki, lol.

[Enternal]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I thought she was tsundere for Riki, lol.

I was somewhat getting that feeling too but I'm not sure. Although if I'm reading Klash's post right, Klash seems to imply something about Kanata feeling good talking to Riki? Well I don't know but it's quite possible in EX since there's even a route for her.

Either way, are we expecting to see Kanata going full dere with Haruka?
Haruka: Onee-san!
Kanata: *faints with happiness

[Zankoku12]

Originally Posted by Enternal

Although if I'm reading Klash's post right, Klash seems to imply something about Kanata feeling good talking to Riki?

I know you didn't really mean anything but still

Spoiler for Kanata's route:

It's "onee-chan" actually,and then there's Kana-chan...

And faint with happiness is just overreacting it...

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

I thought she was tsundere for Riki, lol.

Not really. She has absolutely no attraction towards Riki whatsoever in Haruka's route. The main point with Kanata regarding Riki was how "conveniently" he shows up like Haruka's saviour, despite being an outsider.
It isn't like Kanata didn't want anyone else to be the one who helps Haruka, but she was afraid that Haruka would get an even worse mental unstability if a sliver of hope would shatter like that (as in Riki utterly failing despite "talking big").

Originally Posted by Enternal

I was somewhat getting that feeling too but I'm not sure. Although if I'm reading Klash's post right, Klash seems to imply something about Kanata feeling good talking to Riki? Well I don't know but it's quite possible in EX since there's even a route for her.

Kanata mentioned that herself in Haruka's route, and the context was based on the fact Kanata appreciate talking normally to Riki regarding serious stuff, instead of always staying on the sarcastic tangent.


I personally think Haruka's route was the a bit better than the majority of the heroine route in LB, specifically because you had interesting perspective regarding conflict and characters being not so polarized in black or white (although Haruka was sort of a simpleton for the majority of the original route).
The problem of the route was how the VN conclusion was nearly non existent, and you had a somewhat "rushed" acceptance for Haruka regarding Kanata, despite it took ages for her before regarding her quest to know more about Shou (which was drastically cut in the anime).

I think thoug that her conclusion doesn't need to be similar to Kanata's route (not be discussed here, of course), as they could potentially expand the route for a believable branching result.
However, the "best" conclusion would have been Kanata's instead, which might show up later, who knows.

[kitten320]

For me it was the bast route so far. The Mio one left a complete blank impression on me. Had no effect what so ever while this one, despite being handled slightly poorly, made me care and be interested.

[Ceral]

Originally Posted by Dr. Casey

Damn, the twins' mom was busy that day. So why did Jailtime Dad think the mom wasn't in love with him?

That whole shakespearean tragedy for jailtime dad got me interested in Haruka's route again, more specifically the parents roles and what happened in the past. That story of two husbands and one wife, one husband sacrificing 10+ years of his life and then the daughters falling into the wrong hands despite their efforts... I was curious about knowing more details and trying to understand the parents feelings during such a bizzare journey and maybe learn why things had to turn out so tragically. So I did some reading and for anyone interested, here's a summary to share:

Spoiler for Harukas Route in the VN:

I ctrl'ed through most of the route, so this isn't as detailed as it should be, but I focused on scenes with any of the parents involved, which I figure might have all of their background story. Almost everything here is literal translation of the dialogue / narration with minimal fluff and organization too, but maybe it'll satisfy your curiousity. Much like the anime the parents don't spill any of the very few beans that they do spill until the very end. So this summary describes key points from Haruka's argument for when she inquires about being born. And then about next scene with prison dad. Both at the very end of the route...

Feel free to add anything or correct any discrepancies.

So Haruka asks about the circumstances of her birth. The first key point is the Mother says that she loved both husbands, and that, "She couldn't even bear thinking about having to choose over either one of them." The mother says both of the husbands were able to show that they loved her in their own ways as well. (So pretty clearly it says that the the love with both husbands was mutual and nothing that I read suggests the mother favored Futaki over prison dad, unlike the anime.) But "after" (She says this in the context of after talking about the twins being born.) she came to a realization about her situation, that they (The parents.) were nothing else but "objects", in the palms of someone elses hands. When she first realized this she felt pain and regret. The person that taught them their living arrangement was not normal was "prison dad", the mother lived a sheltered life, and Father Futaki did not have any grievances with the arrangement either as he had an agreement within his own family (And was possibly sheltered too.) so these two, at least at first, didn't feel anything was off. However from prison dads influence, they truly realized how abnormal their lives were, so they decided they'd run away from that mess. What happened after that - the parents won't say anymore. Just that they want Haruka to know one thing, that her birth wasn't forced on them, that both pairs of parents loved eachother and she was the result of that love. After Haruka throws a fit about wanting to know what happens afterwards the mother says she cannot say anymore, just that there were an innumerable amount of times that they tried to save the girls but in the end they weren't able to do anything. <Cut to black> Narration talks about how the family kicks out it's "shame", that they leave it to die in the fields, to become bones withering on the dirt. The family thought of people as tools. In order to learn more the mother tells Haruka to ask prison dad along with Kanata.

So finally Haruka and Kanata make up and go visit prison dad. After some "pleasantries" prison dad is asked why the "incident occured"? Prison dad says that "Your mom was a brat who didn't know anything. After the "thing" ended, she cried and left, realizing the situation she was placed in was strange." (Given the context, earlier the mother made it sound like she realized something was wrong after they were born. Prison dad makes it clear that it was after the deed. Which is strange because it seems they wait quite awhile until after the twins are born before the incident occurs.) He goes on to say that both of them never had the intention to take any responsibility for what they were doing (I assume he means as far as marrying and having kids.) But they both loved the mother, and "Couldn't leave her alone with that piece of shit traditional family". But he explains there was no safe way out of their situation and that they felt cornered, so there was no other choice. Prison dad says it was he who came up with the plan. And, just as according to plan they were disinherited and subsequently he was locked up (Doesn't specifically say it was part of the plan to sacrifice himself and get locked up, by my observation he doesn't come off as the altruistic type, but nor does he seem to be the type to want to toot his own horn in order to receive pity.). Also I didn't catch any mention of them being childhood friends in the VN. All he mentions is, in this "warped world" there are important things, and that, "The daughters born from two husbands and one wife were what was important.", but that they made one grave miscalculation, and that was that the relatives would adopt them. Unlike the anime, the prison dad seems to be a really ill-mannered person the whole time, calling Riki and the girls idiots even in the very last scene. I may have missed something, but his character in the VN doesn't make it sound as if he had sacrificed himself for the woman he loved and was giving her away to another man just for her happiness (And his unhappiness.), the man she truly loves. I got the impression that a big part of his motive was that he was pissed off with the family and didn't want the daughters to have to grow up with those traditions. I may have missed something because I ctrl'ed through a lot of the route. Anyhow the anime makes the father seem so pitiable!

Why they kept it a secret - Prison dad explains that if they told them, one of the daughters would be able to make themselves a (metaphorical) "ditch" (to lay in). So if they didn't tell them, then at least whenever one of them would become depressed about their poor situation, they could at least have some hope that maybe their whole situation is incorrect (Because they might actually not be prison dads daughter.) Also for that reason, the other "two" moved around a lot, so they couldn't be found and asked.

Also father laments, that his story is an idiotic one, one without any semblance of actually trying to save the girls.

So that's that, from what I gather, the anime embellished the story of their past quite a bit, prison dad made it sound like he only entered the marriage at first for reasons other than true love, but ended up loving her and caring for the children and disliking his situation, all of which culminated in the incident. Unlike the story about a love that existed from childhood which would never die, which was a much more depressing story... so if you'd rather follow the original story, I don't think you have to be so depressed! I guess the plotholes about what the parents were doing were somewhat addressed in the VN... If you're not satisfied, I suggest reading the VN, as just putting in the time even if you don't find something new,still helps when you're really interested and want to know more about a story/characters.

About the route, IMO it really is long-winded, and despite any pity points Haruka has earned, I still don't find her personality all that interesting. So with really not a whole lot happenining outside of time with Haruka, in order to find the route consistently interesting, I think you'd have to find the long anecdotes that consist almost solely of Haruka's antics and the aftermath funny or interesting. Strange, because on paper it's probably the route with the most twists, bizzare plotlines and unexpected motives, but there's just not enough of that. E.G. I got interested in the plotline about the past, but juicy tidbits about the story of two husbands and one wife makes up barely a perctange of the actual dialogue... It's a galge though, so it should be about the heroine, it's for those who like Haruka and not just the plot in her arc. Imo that's the way it should be!

[blakstealth]

goddammit, Haruka. WHO IS THE FATHER!

We need to get Maury up in here.

[egnaro315]

I don't think the fact that Kanata's right arm containing no scars is a mistake.
If you re-watch the opening and the episode, only her left arm is revealed to be covered with scars.
In the previous episode, during her conversation with Riki about the level of happiness being constant in the world you can see her holding her left arm with her right hand as if it was injured.
In this episode she is also holding her left arm as she confesses to Haruka. I know many Asian parents who hit their child's left arm when they see them use it to eat etc and scarring a child in one place is definitely more effective (and more painful) if they don't want to be caught instead of whipping them everywhere.

[s07195]

Good episode. Though I wasn't sure why Kanata was pretending at the start of the episode (and even thought it was one big conspiracy), it's nice to see things end well. (I don't even want to read how the route was butchered any more... )

Hopefully they start interacting normally even in school now. And I support Mio going to take care of the family!

[~Yami~]

just can't resist to bump this thread

Haruka's arc is simply the most beautiful so far

I just want to hug Haruka during whole episode.... while slapping and hugging Kanata as well

their story is just wonderful... too bad that Riki is only acts as good counselor in here
the one who is in active part actually only Haruka and Kanata

don't really care about the adaptation stuff since I'm anime-only viewer
this episode is enough to touch my heart

last thing I want to know is...
is there much differences between Haruka's arc and Kanata's arc (in Little Busters! Ecstasy)??? or is it the same but from different point of view?

[Archon_Wing]

Well, this arc was oddly subtle for Little Busters.
It was oddly subtle for Key.
Hell, I'd say something about JC Staff, but whatever. It was very good and more suited for my sensibilities.

But yea, part of why I felt a disconnect and couldn't finish this anime was that I felt the characters were way too cartoonish and their antics were pretty ridiculous. On the other hand Haruka's arc offers some more down to earth storytelling. The complex family situation was kind of a stretch to grab but it doesn't really matter, as we explore the humanity of two characters that were previously so emotionally distant. Haruka, someone that's been treated so unfairly throughout her life, and constantly having her actions criticized just no longer gave a damn about right and wrong, thus resorting to trolling people. I mean if you just get shit upon for whatever you do, then you tend to become more distrusting of authority and rules. Meanwhile, Kanata had to always "win" in that stupid rat race and bear the burden of having to always perform and put down Haruka.

The whole imposter arc was kinda disturbing and didn't seem to go anywhere, though it does bring upon a new side to Kanata that I am more interested than I really should be. But hey, they really care for each other and fuck those assholes already. Life after will be tough, but it's good to be able to live life on your own anyways. And the people involved sacrificed much to get to this point.

Also, Haruka looks pretty hot in the end; I mean I know she likes to draw attention, but still, lol. And did I just compliment JC on this kind of thing? Oh god.

Next up is Menma Kud. Ah, fuck.