Romance in Macross (Take 2)

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by Tak

VF-25 Master Files (Post TV series) - Sheryl & Alto touring various human colonies throughout the galaxy. Ranka not present.

...with, again, a note added to the book that it is NOT a "canonical source," specifically pointing out that that very story isn't canonical.

And, uh...movie ending? You might want to put it in spoiler tags.

Incidentally, I just put the finishing touches on my LMK fanfic, in which I reveal that LMK is actually a 67-year-old retired shoe salesman from Vancouver.

Surprised? I know I was! Who would have thought it, huh!?

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

...with, again, a note added to the book that it is NOT a "canonical source," specifically pointing out that that very story isn't canonical.

I know that, but since she was kind enough to use Kiss in the Galaxy as OFFICIAL/CANON source... then that makes Master Files fair game.

- Tak

[Yot-chan]

Originally Posted by Tak

I know that, but since she was kind enough to use Kiss in the Galaxy as OFFICIAL/CANON source... then that makes Master Files fair game.

- Tak

Just because she doesn't know any better doesn't mean you should go and be deliberately dishonest...

Just sayin'.

[Tak]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

Just because she doesn't know any better doesn't mean you should go and be deliberately dishonest...

Just sayin'.

Well, it doesn't really matter anyway, because I was just showing her none of the endings of the said materials showed any vanishing.

- Tak

[karice67]

Originally Posted by Yot-chan

...with, again, a note added to the book that it is NOT a "canonical source," specifically pointing out that that very story isn't canonical.

Hm...the way I understood that line of interviews and thoughts from Kawamori was that nothing presented in any series is 'canon' - or rather, history - in the Macross universe unless it's confirmed by official chronology, i.e. the official history first compiled in Macross Perfect Memory and updated in the Macross 7 Memorials Material Book...

=======

Originally Posted by Tak

So Yot-Chan is a her now, Karice is a he...

She really said that? (Well...I'd be blissfully ignoring all of that anyway if you weren't quoting it, Tak...)

[CrowKenobi]

Before more point/counterpoint posts get created, how about moving ALL fanfiction discussion to the Macross Fan Fiction Thread where it belongs?

[LoveMeKags]

Originally Posted by CrowKenobi

Before more point/counterpoint posts get created, how about moving ALL fanfiction discussion to the Macross Fan Fiction Thread where it belongs?

Will do in future posts.

[Darthtabby]

Just wanted to say quickly that I suspect that the changes to Sheryl's character in the movie had little to do with dissatisfaction with her TV series character and a lot to do with serving the movie's needs. A lot of her personality flaws were toned down for instance because the movie version of events simply doesn't have the time to deal with them effectively. Besides, she was hardly the only character who was changed for the film version.

As for Kiss in the Galaxy -Kawamori approved of the project but I doubt he was involved in it all that deeply.

[usspaul]

can we please move the whole changeing of sheryl past to her charater thread instead of spaming it here?

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by wisteria233

Actually that has been pointed out multiple times by various members in this forums.

Doesn't hurt putting up a reminder from time to time.

Originally Posted by karice67

Hm...the way I understood that line of interviews and thoughts from Kawamori was that nothing presented in any series is 'canon' - or rather, history - in the Macross universe unless it's confirmed by official chronology, i.e. the official history first compiled in Macross Perfect Memory and updated in the Macross 7 Memorials Material Book...

"Official canon" for the series will probably only be established at this point by the oblique references we'll get in the next project.

[karice67]

OMG! Peace! Will it last until the 2nd movie is out?

Originally Posted by magnuskn

"Official canon" for the series will probably only be established at this point by the oblique references we'll get in the next project.

I'm hoping they (eventually) update the official chronology again. Though I don't expect it to confirm much more than years of birth, the dates of concerts and the release of the "Bird Human" movie, the fact that Leon Mishima became the 5th president of the Frontier Fleet, the colonization of the Vajra planet...

According to the Japanese Macross wikia, some of this was already confirmed in an article in the Ranka Lee Official Book...

[raile]

I will miss, Takky...

And to keep this relevant to the thread...

ALTO/SHERYL~ deliciously canon.

[Qwib]

Sorry if I seem like some random new guy that is just throwing in opinions in an already heated debate.

I guess I'll start off by saying that the love triangle of Macross Frontier is perfect. The fact that I felt like i was going on an emotional roller-coaster ride throughout the series due to the way the triangle played out really demonstrates how good this show was.

Being a huge Ranka fan, I was always cringing when Ranka would see Sheryl Alto together which ultimately lead to her heart being crushed. The best example of this is in episode 19 where Ranka finally gathers the mental courage to confront Alto about her feelings but then she sees Alto and Sheryl together.
In this scene I could honestly feel her despair. The way it all played out was absolutely terrific.

Although as much as I want Ranka and Alto to be the official pairing for Macross Frontier, I feel that if this was the case moments like I mentioned just before wouldn't of had the same impact.

Anyway that's my opinion on the love triangle. Hopefully it all makes sense
Feel free to challenge me on anything (Not that you guys need permission )

On another note Michael and Klan Klang are so cute together!

[raile]

Well, it's no problem supporting your pairing that didn't win the end game, believe me I have a long list of that , as long as one does not spend walls after walls of text explaining behind-the-scenes propaganda and such (like a certain someone).

Imo, the Frontier triangle wasn't perfect. It was lopsided to me. Now, the first Macross series with Misa, Hikaru, and Minmay...now that was a triangle!

@vansonbee, are you being serious or sarcastic? I really can't tell. lol. XD

[Lancel]

Hikaru/Misa/Minmei was pretty close to the end. Misa was good to him but Hikaru just couldn't get over his infatuation with Minmei until the very end. It's entirely possible he never will entirely, but he at least finally moved on.

Alto/Sheryl/Ranka was a pretty massive construct, but it certainly had its own character. The triangle touches on Frontier's theme on communication. Notably Sheryl/Alto never really expressed their feelings to one another straight up. Ranka does, but it seems like she does it too late, even though she came out before Sheryl did. I believe this to be important to the overall theme, maybe that communication can come in many ways, like maybe just feeling. I hypothesize that Ranka slowly lost, but Alto never moved away from her, it felt more that Ranka mostly stayed the same friendly distance away while Sheryl took little steps closer. I really think Ranka lost in Episode 21.

Communicating those feelings was probably what Ranka had to learn, it was something perhaps Sheryl already knew from singing, and Alto knew from Kabuki, and in the end they just didn't need to say the words. At the end of the series I'd say Ranka still had a chance, but Sheryl was quite a ways ahead in that.

As a possible extension, one could hypothesize that this may have contributed to why we don't get the Love Triangle Winner Declaration. Sheryl and Alto may have never needed to communicate it point blank before, so why change that now?

Alto does really like Ranka though, but I feel like Sheryl just got further along. I think the key spot to this was around ep 18. Alto goes to great lengths to see Ranka that one time, probably because he said he would and security was being tight around her. He can be stubborn. Somehow though it felt like Alto going to see Sheryl at his old home was more meaningful, even though generally it was the same thing, guy sneaking in to see the girl.

And to be frankly honest, Alto got angry with Sheryl, and later on, particularly earlier in episode 19 before the rooftop scene, it suggest to me of an anger brought from pain. We see Sheryl make a decision about her own life, and Alto pretty well gets pissed about it, be it from his own morals or just really caring about Sheryl, but for a Hime who always told Ranka to believe in herself and not let others tell her what she can and can't do, this kinda makes one think. Alto got angry at her like he gets angry when someone is trying to tell him what to do and how to be, just like when his brother told him to come back to Kabuki and questioned his reason for being a pilot. I can think of no other time he gets angry like that that isn't related to himself. Even when Ranka leaves in Ep 21, it's not the same anger. There Alto was more like a "WTF are you doing, Ranka?!" sort of anger, but whenever Hime got his personality questioned or called a Hime it was more of a "How dare you!" sort of anger, and that was the kind of anger he showed Sheryl.

Amusingly, Sheryl responds in kind, which leads to my final observation: Alto really has more in common with Sheryl than he does with Ranka. That may, however, be my opinion. I'm probably missing things/getting stuff wrong though.

Babble! Why do I babble?!

[raile]

I do think both (Alto/Sheryl) have more in common.
From the hatred they harbored towards their own home (even though towards the end, they still want to protect it) to their sense of duty or professionalism. They're also a couple of tsunderes too.

Oh and as Lancel pointed out, they both had issues communicating their feelings. But I do think Alto accomplished this finally..(in episode 24 and the end of the 2nd movie).

[raile]

I'll reply later to that.

All I know is that the hatred to their own homes that Alto and Sheryl have are not really genuine as it seems, I'll elaborate later.

For now, I am reveling in the soon-to-be-released antology doujin of various Alto/Sheryl doujinkas.

Oh and there's a Brera/Ranka one too..incest....eek..

[magnuskn]

Originally Posted by raile

I'll reply later to that.

All I know is that the hatred to their own homes that Alto and Sheryl have are not really genuine as it seems, I'll elaborate later.

For now, I am reveling in the soon-to-be-released antology doujin of various Alto/Sheryl doujinkas.

Oh and there's a Brera/Ranka one too..incest....eek..

Hm, the SxA sound interesting. I wonder where you can get them. ^^

[Swampstorm]

Home is an abstract concept. In Alto and Sheryl's case, it's not a question of where, but rather a question of how it's perceived. I would recommend looking to episode 23 to get a sense of what "home" truly means to them.

[Darthtabby]

Originally Posted by raile

All I know is that the hatred to their own homes that Alto and Sheryl have are not really genuine as it seems, I'll elaborate later.

It's fairly obvious that Alto's hatred of Frontier isn't very genuine, seeing as how he vomits when he sees it devastated, gets really into showing it to Sheryl, and eventually commits to defending it. I'm less convinced that Sheryl's negative feelings towards Galaxy are fake though. Her body language when she and Alto are discussing their home fleets in Episode Six is indicative of some pretty painful memories. I think she feels she has a duty to the people of Galaxy, but I don't think she loves that place the way she ends up loving Frontier.

Originally Posted by Swampstorm

Home is an abstract concept. In Alto and Sheryl's case, it's not a question of where, but rather a question of how it's perceived. I would recommend looking to episode 23 to get a sense of what "home" truly means to them.

Hmmm... Sheryl seems to feel that the important thing about home is having a special person (or possibly people) there with you. Alto's view seems broader -he places great importance on the people of Frontier as a whole (though then again when Sheryl chose to sing in Episode 22, it was for the people of Frontier in a broad sense). Am I on the right track here?