AnimeSuki Forums

Bflip · 2004-09-22, 21:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tettsuo

You cannot increase efficiency if you haven't mastered something. First you have to be able to do it, before you can improve it. Naruto can do it, he just isn't as efficient at it as Jiraiya.

You're saying you have to master a technique to get efficient at it? So how do you master a technique without getting good at it?

Bflip · 2004-09-22, 22:00

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nub.Itachi

Okay lets put it like this. Naruto has obviously mastered it since all the sannins recongnized it, but its not quite as effiecent as Jiriaya's method under CERTAIN conditions, it has its weak spots but again it has its strong spots. We can't really say which would be more effective in what condition since there are so many possiblities.
I don't think he will try to master one hand, but thats just IMO. Certainly possible.

I thought the Sannins recognized that he could do it, not master it.

Sabaku no Gaara · 2004-09-22, 23:34

well....let's look at it this way.

Tsunade said she would give him the necklace if he mastered it in a week.

He did a powerful rasengan on Kabuto....

Everyone said "Wow, he actually did it..."

Tsunade gives him the necklace.....

In conclusion, he got the necklace because he won the bet. He mastered it within a week.

He used strategy, and everyone said he did it completely wrong. True he has to use a Kage Bunshin to pull it off, but everyone has their own ways of doing things. I'm sure he's no different.

Nub.Itachi · 2004-09-23, 00:04

exactly, and this thread is pretty pointless since the anime blatenly says it. If you keep arguing about it ur just being difficult. so stop and just accept the fact that he has infact mastered it, if he hadn't then he wouldn't have gotten the necklace end of story.

aptenergy · 2004-09-23, 00:58

Notice the title of this thread. Has Naruto actually mastered the Rasengan?

First of all, you should double check whether they actually say "master" in Japanese. I don't know whether or not that was said but someone should check.

Second, we're not deciding whether the anime says he mastered the thing, we're having a discussion about whether we think they did. We are evaluating Naruto for ourselves. Naturally people are going to be difficult about what this means.

In my opinion, strategy is one thing, and it's nice that he came up with that out of nowhere. It doesn't matter to me though, it's still inefficient. He can do it, but he needs more than the basic requirements - he needs a clone and he needs time to do Kage Bunshin. He can't do it with his left hand.

Like I've said, mastery means that you cannot get any better. You cannot become more efficient because you're already efficient. You cannot use generate more power per chakra input because you're already maxed it out. You're a master, no one's better than you.

Naruto clearly learned the technique. He is NOT a Rasengan master.

Sabaku no Gaara · 2004-09-23, 01:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by aptenergy

Notice the title of this thread. Has Naruto actually mastered the Rasengan?

First of all, you should double check whether they actually say "master" in Japanese. I don't know whether or not that was said but someone should check.

Second, we're not deciding whether the anime says he mastered the thing, we're having a discussion about whether we think they did. We are evaluating Naruto for ourselves. Naturally people are going to be difficult about what this means.

In my opinion, strategy is one thing, and it's nice that he came up with that out of nowhere. It doesn't matter to me though, it's still inefficient. He can do it, but he needs more than the basic requirements - he needs a clone and he needs time to do Kage Bunshin. He can't do it with his left hand.

Like I've said, mastery means that you cannot get any better. You cannot become more efficient because you're already efficient. You cannot use generate more power per chakra input because you're already maxed it out. You're a master, no one's better than you.

Naruto clearly learned the technique. He is NOT a Rasengan master.

My god, you people are tough little bastards aren't you?

He used a kage bunshin to do the rasengan, let's break it down to a couple of things. +'s and -'s

- he has to use it, therefore that could take up time while creating the bunshin, and actually pulling off the move.
- it consumes chakra to pull it off
- it could be considered inefficient because unable of doing it by himself.

+ Naruto seems to be the master of Kage Bunshin at his lvl, he is able to pull it off quickly and effectively. So timing shouldn't be too big of a problem.
+ he has his other hand free
+ all the while it does consume chakra, one thing we've learned about Naruto, 1 shadow clone will not nearly AT ALL deplete his chakra pool, what with having Kyuubi and all
+ It seems that having a bunshin to mold the rasengan has resulted in a more powerful attack, look at anime and the manga.
+ he had a handicap, and he found a way to get around it, no matter what he does, you guys are just gonna sit there with your arms crossed, pouting, and being stubborn.

If the three Legendary Sannin plus one very talented Jounin can recognize that he mastered it, what's the point in arguing. Quit looking for technicalities, he's able to perform a very powerful, very effective rasengan. If you guys don't think that it was powerful or effective, look at how Kabuto's ability to regenerate himself wasn't even able to stop the damage of the Rasengan.

There ya go.

EDIT: Oh and btw, the thread should be titled "I don't think he acutally mastered the rasengan...but that's just my opinion" Because that's all it is, YOU did not write the Story. you are not Tsunade, Jiraiya, or Orochimaru and if you think he didn't master it, to bad, it's just your opinion. Because in the story he did, if he didn't, he wouldn't be wearing that necklace, guarentee it. She even said.

"If you can master this in a week, I will give you this necklace"

when he masters it, she gives him the necklace

I know she didn't blatantly say that he mastered it she wasn't like "Oh btw, you mastered rasengan so here ya go champ!" that would've been tacky

so stop being a knucklehead and just deal with it, while you had a valiant effort and I know you will retort with some witty post saying that I'm completely out of my wazoo, you're wrong.

Dauthi · 2004-09-23, 01:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabaku no Gaara

My god, you people are tough little bastards aren't you?

He used a kage bunshin to do the rasengan, let's break it down to a couple of things. +'s and -'s

- he has to use it, therefore that could take up time while creating the bunshin, and actually pulling off the move.
- it consumes chakra to pull it off
- it could be considered inefficient because unable of doing it by himself.

+ Naruto seems to be the master of Kage Bunshin at his lvl, he is able to pull it off quickly and effectively. So timing shouldn't be too big of a problem.
+ he has his other hand free
+ all the while it does consume chakra, one thing we've learned about Naruto, 1 shadow clone will not nearly AT ALL deplete his chakra pool, what with having Kyuubi and all
+ It seems that having a bunshin to mold the rasengan has resulted in a more powerful attack, look at anime and the manga.
+ he had a handicap, and he found a way to get around it, no matter what he does, you guys are just gonna sit there with your arms crossed, pouting, and being stubborn.

If the three Legendary Sannin plus one very talented Jounin can recognize that he mastered it, what's the point in arguing. Quit looking for technicalities, he's able to perform a very powerful, very effective rasengan. If you guys don't think that it was powerful or effective, look at how Kabuto's ability to regenerate himself wasn't even able to stop the damage of the Rasengan.

There ya go.

Actually aptenergy has a point. For all you know the translators used "master" but could have also used another term, not meaning the exact same thing.

I have no idea what you are trying to prove by showing the postitives and negatives of him using a bushin. No matter what you say, it isnt as effective as having the chakra control to do it normally in one hand.

If naruto has to use a bushin, stand in one spot and take a lot of time to swirl chakra, and Jiraiya can run, jump.. whatever, while doing it faster and in one hand, who is the master of the technique and who is still learning?

Cort · 2004-09-23, 01:32

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sabaku no Gaara

+ It seems that having a bunshin to mold the rasengan has resulted in a more powerful attack, look at anime and the manga.
+ he had a handicap, and he found a way to get around it, no matter what he does, you guys are just gonna sit there with your arms crossed, pouting, and being stubborn.

There ya go.

No reason to take it to trying to degrade people. By the exact same thought train I could call you stubborn and pouting because you have a different point of view than I do.

Naruto doesn't have the same skill level with the Rasengan as Jiraiya does. Using Jiraiya as the example of someone who has "mastered" the Rasengan, I conclude that Naruto isn't as skillful at forming it as Jiraiya is (he is incapable of spinning the chakra with one hand,) thus he is not a "master" of it. Jiraiya can use it with the "flick of his wrist" so to speak, Naruto can't, he has to expend extra effort to create a work around.

Now, if you want to take it to a deeper level, Naruto hasn't mastered his chakra control enough to do it with one hand. Sadly, they go hand in hand, as the Rasengan relies heavily on chakra control, and without mastery of one, he doesn't have mastery of the other. While Naruto's sitting there taking up two or three hands, Jiraiya could've flipped out a shadow clone and popped 4 into someone assuming he had enough chakra to do so.

That is my point of view. Ah well thats enough, I disagree, there ya go

Sabaku no Gaara · 2004-09-23, 01:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dauthi

Actually aptenergy has a point. For all you know the translators used "master" but could have also used another term, not meaning the exact same thing.

I have no idea what you are trying to prove by showing the postitives and negatives of him using a bushin. No matter what you say, it isnt as effective as having the chakra control to do it normally in one hand.

If naruto has to use a bushin, stand in one spot and take a lot of time to swirl chakra, and Jiraiya can run, jump.. whatever, while doing it faster and in one hand, who is the master of the technique and who is still learning?

hmm...and who says that the bunshin can't jump with him. We don't know. I was trying to break it down so people just don't look at the negatives of him using bunshin you know?

Sabaku no Gaara · 2004-09-23, 01:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cort

No reason to take it to trying to degrade people. By the exact same thought train I could call you stubborn and pouting because you have a different point of view than I do.

Naruto doesn't have the same skill level with the Rasengan as Jiraiya does. Using Jiraiya as the example of someone who has "mastered" the Rasengan, I conclude that Naruto isn't as skillful at forming it as Jiraiya is (he is incapable of spinning the chakra with one hand,) thus he is not a "master" of it. Jiraiya can use it with the "flick of his wrist" so to speak, Naruto can't, he has to expend extra effort to create a work around. That is my point of view.

Yeah I know what you're saying. And I'm sorry that I degraded him, whatever. He said Naruto was NOT a master of rasengan. Right, and that's his opinion as it is mine.

But you would think that since Tsunade gave him that necklace, he was able to master it.

PLUS, we haven't seen the 4th do it either, which we might in a flashback scene. If Jiraiya says he mastered it, but he used a bunshin, you guys would still say he wasn't a master of it.

I know what you guys are saying, since Naruto's chakra control is crap, he possible couldn't be able to do it with one hand. But on the other, if he's able to pull of such a POWERFUL rasengan after a week of practice. even if isn't the mastered version, it's must be very close. Everyone was suprised he was able to do it. They weren't suprised at the fact that he could do it, because they already knew he could. But that he performed such a powerful rasengan with so little time, at being such a young age. Therefore, he MUST be doing something right.

aptenergy · 2004-09-23, 01:46

Yes, of course I wasn't trying to degrade anyone, sheesh. lol.

Cboi89 · 2004-09-23, 01:49

..hmmm i dont think he could use it now but he still need more time to get it down so id say not completly master yet. the first 2 step to his resengan is not all under his control yet, i dont think he could do them with out using his other hand to hit his chakra around.....funni guy wit all his lil techniuches and stragtecgies.

well newayz has ne1 here noticed the anime call Hunterxhunter(hxh) , that anime is the bomb also the fight is not as dramatic as naruto but it alright and u could deal wit it and the theme and characters, as well as plots are really good tho, it touched me so many tyme wit itz theme and story line.... and y'all should really go check it out itz tha bombz i say itz as good as naruto.... well iono i enjoyed this as much as i did naruto.

Tettsuo · 2004-09-23, 06:47

Where in the anime does it says Naruto's Rasengan isn't as strong as Jiraiya? If it's the same thing, but Naruto does the move differently, how is the end result not as good?

I have yet to see where Naruto version is any less powerful or effective. If it's the same, then he's mastered it.

Tautou · 2004-09-23, 08:45

No, not really. It's like trying to spin a plate on one of those sticks, not being able to do so, so using something to balance it out. Yes, the effect is the same. No, it isn't as impressive to watch from the outside. Your ass would get fired.

So until Naruto truly gains a mastery of the Rasengan, his ass is fired. No one cares.

The BASIS of the Rasengan is to spin chakra around... He cannot do that very well, so instead he "balanced" it out through using another hand and a Kage Bunshin to help him out. That isn't mastery, when he hasn't mastered how to "balance" the Rasengan, how to spin the chakra.

Tettsuo · 2004-09-23, 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tautou

No, not really. It's like trying to spin a plate on one of those sticks, not being able to do so, so using something to balance it out. Yes, the effect is the same. No, it isn't as impressive to watch from the outside. Your ass would get fired.

So until Naruto truly gains a mastery of the Rasengan, his ass is fired. No one cares.

The BASIS of the Rasengan is to spin chakra around... He cannot do that very well, so instead he "balanced" it out through using another hand and a Kage Bunshin to help him out. That isn't mastery, when he hasn't mastered how to "balance" the Rasengan, how to spin the chakra.

It's not like your stick analogy, because Naruto isn't getting any help, he's doing it all by himself. If Jiraiya is spinning a plate on a stick, so is Naruto (Naruto's Rasengan isn't different or assisted). He's just doing it a bit differently.

Unless you consider getting help from himself is getting help from someone else (that doesn't even sound like it makes sense).

eviljiraiya · 2004-09-23, 09:13

I swear his Kage Bunshin is wot gets him through everythinig. Its not a low level technique tho.

Well atm the moment none of the Genins or chuunins know how to use it as it is a jounin level jutsu right?

Imagine 1000 Narutos + 2000 Rasengans (1 in each hand) + Kyuuki Chakura.

Tha would fuck up Orochimaru, his snakes and his boy wonder Kabuto. .. if it actually hit them that is.

lol

Trax · 2004-09-23, 09:25

I think you could say he has mastered the basic form of Rasengan, but not actually mastered the ability itself. His execution is too slow and dependant on a workaround, nowhere near the way Jiraiya can use it.

Nub.Itachi · 2004-09-23, 09:28

lol yeah that would be pretty funny...

and i also agree with tettsuo, even if he use's kage bunshin its still him, you can't count his kage as ANOTHER person its ANOTHER naruto clone with physical abilities, its still naruto doing ALL the work not Jiriaya or someone else.

MASTERED!!!!

gruvy_qc · 2004-09-23, 09:49

It's not mastered. The fact he needs the help of his clones proves it. To master it, he must be able to do it one handed and ALONE. Just as Jiraya.

Nub.Itachi · 2004-09-23, 10:03

Quote:

originaly posted by qurvy_qc
It's not mastered. The fact he needs the help of his clones proves it. To master it, he must be able to do it one handed and ALONE. Just as Jiraya.

HMMM very intresting how you came up with that, must have made it up, cause it says no where in teh anime that he HAS to use one hand no where look all you want, if he hadn't masted it he couldn't do it simple, if he hadn't mastered it Tsunade wouldn't have given him the necklace, if he did master it the Sannin's wouldn't have recongnized him.

ALL the evidence points to him mastering it, how can you argue that, "OHH HE HAS TO USE A CLONE, HAX!!!!"

w/e turns your jelly i guess..

View Poll Results: Has Naruto actually mastered the Rasengan?
No shit he has. What a stupid question.	45	30.61%
No ... Using a Kage Bunshin is cheating.	81	55.10%
Not sure actually...	21	14.29%
Voters: 147. You may not vote on this poll

2004-09-22, 23:34	Link #63
Sabaku no Gaara OMG ****ing EMONINJA >< Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Mac Age: 38	well....let's look at it this way. Tsunade said she would give him the necklace if he mastered it in a week. He did a powerful rasengan on Kabuto.... Everyone said "Wow, he actually did it..." Tsunade gives him the necklace..... In conclusion, he got the necklace because he won the bet. He mastered it within a week. He used strategy, and everyone said he did it completely wrong. True he has to use a Kage Bunshin to pull it off, but everyone has their own ways of doing things. I'm sure he's no different.

2004-09-23, 00:04	Link #64
Nub.Itachi Uchiha Opposition Join Date: Sep 2004 Age: 37	exactly, and this thread is pretty pointless since the anime blatenly says it. If you keep arguing about it ur just being difficult. so stop and just accept the fact that he has infact mastered it, if he hadn't then he wouldn't have gotten the necklace end of story.

2004-09-23, 00:58	Link #65
aptenergy Member Join Date: Apr 2004	Notice the title of this thread. Has Naruto actually mastered the Rasengan? First of all, you should double check whether they actually say "master" in Japanese. I don't know whether or not that was said but someone should check. Second, we're not deciding whether the anime says he mastered the thing, we're having a discussion about whether we think they did. We are evaluating Naruto for ourselves. Naturally people are going to be difficult about what this means. In my opinion, strategy is one thing, and it's nice that he came up with that out of nowhere. It doesn't matter to me though, it's still inefficient. He can do it, but he needs more than the basic requirements - he needs a clone and he needs time to do Kage Bunshin. He can't do it with his left hand. Like I've said, mastery means that you cannot get any better. You cannot become more efficient because you're already efficient. You cannot use generate more power per chakra input because you're already maxed it out. You're a master, no one's better than you. Naruto clearly learned the technique. He is NOT a Rasengan master.

2004-09-23, 01:46	Link #71
aptenergy Member Join Date: Apr 2004	Yes, of course I wasn't trying to degrade anyone, sheesh. lol.

2004-09-23, 01:49	Link #72
Cboi89 Junior Member Join Date: Sep 2004	..hmmm i dont think he could use it now but he still need more time to get it down so id say not completly master yet. the first 2 step to his resengan is not all under his control yet, i dont think he could do them with out using his other hand to hit his chakra around.....funni guy wit all his lil techniuches and stragtecgies. well newayz has ne1 here noticed the anime call Hunterxhunter(hxh) , that anime is the bomb also the fight is not as dramatic as naruto but it alright and u could deal wit it and the theme and characters, as well as plots are really good tho, it touched me so many tyme wit itz theme and story line.... and y'all should really go check it out itz tha bombz i say itz as good as naruto.... well iono i enjoyed this as much as i did naruto.

2004-09-23, 06:47	Link #73
Tettsuo Yeah, I said that! Join Date: Sep 2004	Where in the anime does it says Naruto's Rasengan isn't as strong as Jiraiya? If it's the same thing, but Naruto does the move differently, how is the end result not as good? I have yet to see where Naruto version is any less powerful or effective. If it's the same, then he's mastered it.

2004-09-23, 08:45	Link #74
Tautou Member Join Date: Aug 2004	No, not really. It's like trying to spin a plate on one of those sticks, not being able to do so, so using something to balance it out. Yes, the effect is the same. No, it isn't as impressive to watch from the outside. Your ass would get fired. So until Naruto truly gains a mastery of the Rasengan, his ass is fired. No one cares. The BASIS of the Rasengan is to spin chakra around... He cannot do that very well, so instead he "balanced" it out through using another hand and a Kage Bunshin to help him out. That isn't mastery, when he hasn't mastered how to "balance" the Rasengan, how to spin the chakra.

2004-09-23, 09:13	Link #76
eviljiraiya Evil Perverted Sannin Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Melbourne.	I swear his Kage Bunshin is wot gets him through everythinig. Its not a low level technique tho. Well atm the moment none of the Genins or chuunins know how to use it as it is a jounin level jutsu right? Imagine 1000 Narutos + 2000 Rasengans (1 in each hand) + Kyuuki Chakura. Tha would fuck up Orochimaru, his snakes and his boy wonder Kabuto. .. if it actually hit them that is. lol

2004-09-23, 09:25	Link #77
Trax Rock beats scissors Join Date: Jul 2004	I think you could say he has mastered the basic form of Rasengan, but not actually mastered the ability itself. His execution is too slow and dependant on a workaround, nowhere near the way Jiraiya can use it.

2004-09-23, 09:28	Link #78
Nub.Itachi Uchiha Opposition Join Date: Sep 2004 Age: 37	lol yeah that would be pretty funny... and i also agree with tettsuo, even if he use's kage bunshin its still him, you can't count his kage as ANOTHER person its ANOTHER naruto clone with physical abilities, its still naruto doing ALL the work not Jiriaya or someone else. MASTERED!!!!

2004-09-23, 09:49	Link #79
gruvy_qc (: Ecchi guy :) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Québec Age: 39	It's not mastered. The fact he needs the help of his clones proves it. To master it, he must be able to do it one handed and ALONE. Just as Jiraya.