Higurashi Kai Episode 18 Discussion / Poll

[Kisuke06]

Incredible, it looks like Oryou knew what Keiichi would do for the village. Hearing her saying what she said made me think that she was waiting some kind of prophet. And I guess Keiichi can be described with that word, somewhat.

[FlareKnight]

Seems like a smart move by Rika and Hanyuu. After all they can't afford to have things go worst case like Keiichi not showing up period. Nothing wrong with making sure that goes well. If it means luring in Keiichi's father, can't hurt.

Oryou did seem almost prophetic right there that's for sure. Guess even she lucked out with someone like Keiichi showing up. Someone who could step up and help change the village and break the problems in the village. Though of course not even she realized the dangerous times that were ahead.

[kingsky123]

Originally Posted by ferthepoet

I´m surprised nobody has asked this yet so can anyone explain the timeline of this pieces with regard to Rika and Hanyuu (as oposed to the chronology in regard of people who does not live outside time)..... Hanyuu apeared in flesh to Keichis Father, but was seen as a ghost when Keichi arrived, when Keichi arrived Hanyuu and Rika had their memories from last arc, however they were supposed not to be able to go so back in time.... Are we supposed to deduce Rika told Onibaba about the importance of getting a new wind from the city and if so how did they get Keichi to move in the worlds before they knew that he was the one that could break fate........ for instance how did they met Keichi if his father was only convinced to move to hinamizawa because of them....

sorry for the long post but I´m strictly confused

no rika didnt tell onibaba about anything she wanted change herself as she was awoken by the ill treatment of the houjou children. as for how rika and hanyuu appearing with the father... i have no idea lol

[Rias]

The only good explaination for Hanyuu's "materialization" is that...well she had the power to do it, and just did it. Either that, or Ichiro was L5. (It's pretty much impossible for Ichiro to be in L5, then miracously recovered when he went away...)

From Hanyuu and Rika's conversation we know that Keiichi moving to the village isn't a set event, and thus they have been playing in the fields to attract Ichiro's attention, which proved to greatly improve the chances of Keiichi appearing. Thus we can assume (?) that in the worlds where Keiichi showed up, Hanyuu and Rika played in the fields, and this is not limited to only to Matsuribayashi-hen. Also, Rika has expressed that the worlds in which Keiichi doesn't appear are the ones that are the most boring, and if that view is also shared by our spectator god Hanyuu, then it makes sense for Hanyuu to help out.

As to why Hanyuu doesn't stay "materialized"...is another mystery. Perhaps there's a time limit, or maybe she enjoyed floating around more.

[FlareKnight]

Well I'm thinking that Hanyuu can materialize now, because she's gotten together her fighting spirit. Maybe looking at it in a mind over matter situation. She really believed that she was just an observer that couldn't do anything, but send Rika back over and over again. Her resolve to fight against Takano with the others may have been what it took to pull that off. Could also be that she is using the last of the energy to throw them back all this way and to materialize in order help.

Think the arrival of Keiichi is usually pretty set. But Rika has mentioned the odd time when he didn't show up. So in order to make sure that happened she and Hanyuu went where from previous experience she knew Ichiro would be. Knowing what she would have to say in order to make it a guarantee.

It's not just that the world's without Keiichi are boring. It's that they are the worst case scenario. Far beyond Satoko's Uncle returning in terms of disaster rating. Because Keiichi is the key to miracles happening. Without him there is no hope of accomplishing anything. As we know a 'new wind' was required to change things. Keiichi can change things there as he did when he got Oryou to help Satoko. So getting Keiichi there is one of the most important things that must be done for success.

[Davidj]

Originally Posted by Rias

The only good explaination for Hanyuu's "materialization" is that...well she had the power to do it, and just did it. Either that, or Ichiro was L5. (It's pretty much impossible for Ichiro to be in L5, then miracously recovered when he went away...)

From Hanyuu and Rika's conversation we know that Keiichi moving to the village isn't a set event, and thus they have been playing in the fields to attract Ichiro's attention, which proved to greatly improve the chances of Keiichi appearing. Thus we can assume (?) that in the worlds where Keiichi showed up, Hanyuu and Rika played in the fields, and this is not limited to only to Matsuribayashi-hen.

They'd have to know about Keiichi before they'd bother to ply his father with their loliness, so I conclude that even without them, he probably would have come anyway.

[Rias]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Well I'm thinking that Hanyuu can materialize now, because she's gotten together her fighting spirit. Maybe looking at it in a mind over matter situation. She really believed that she was just an observer that couldn't do anything, but send Rika back over and over again. Her resolve to fight against Takano with the others may have been what it took to pull that off. Could also be that she is using the last of the energy to throw them back all this way and to materialize in order help.

Think the arrival of Keiichi is usually pretty set. But Rika has mentioned the odd time when he didn't show up. So in order to make sure that happened she and Hanyuu went where from previous experience she knew Ichiro would be. Knowing what she would have to say in order to make it a guarantee.

It's not just that the world's without Keiichi are boring. It's that they are the worst case scenario. Far beyond Satoko's Uncle returning in terms of disaster rating. Because Keiichi is the key to miracles happening. Without him there is no hope of accomplishing anything. As we know a 'new wind' was required to change things. Keiichi can change things there as he did when he got Oryou to help Satoko. So getting Keiichi there is one of the most important things that must be done for success.

It's true that Hanyuu's resolve has something to do with the materialization (preview of ep19), but it doesn't explain why she would appear in the previous worlds that she also materialized just to get Keiichi to help out

If you are considering that this event ONLY happened in Matsuribayashi-hen, since the game text never stated if this was a one time only event or happened many times, then it's weird that Rika looped back to a time before the Maebara moved in, as we know that her loopback time gets closer to the festival everytime. So in the end, it's really a mystery why Ichiro was able to see Hanyuu.

As to Keiichi not showing = worse case scenario...that's a bit extreme. It's true that he plays a crucial role, as demostarted in Minagoroshi-hen; he is also the much needed "new wind". However, think about all the times he didn't do much, as he only started to affect the 3 rules starting the end of Tsumihoroboshi-hen. Rika has also expressed her suprise that Keiichi was able to convince Rena in Tsumihoroboshi-hen, as she always thought that he was kinda useless (Minagoroshi-hen intro)

If Keiichi didn't show up, Onikakushi-hen and Watanagashi/Meakashi would not occur. Things could just go quietly until Rule Y kicks in, or maybe Satoko/Rena would succumb to Rule X. Think Yakusamashi-hen but take away all the parts with Keiichi in it. Either way, Rika gets killed "as usual". The difference is of course, the club activities wouldn't be as fun, and many events like the dessert festival battle wouldn't occur.

[Proto]

They'd have to know about Keiichi before they'd bother to ply his father with their loliness, so I conclude that even without them, he probably would have come anyway.

Check ´piece #33 and piece #41 in the putting the pieces together thread. In the case off #41, you may only want to read the first half.

[Liddo-kun]

Originally Posted by FlareKnight

Yeah figured that woman was the one who gave Takano the idea to kill off Rika and cause the slaughter. Sad to see so many lives being lost due to a power struggle all the way out there. Of course killing a village for her grandfather and his research isn't a big deal so works out for the both of them.

Interesting now that Hanyuu's serious she can go solid and phase out as necessary. Will be a big piece now in solving this situation. Just hope Rika doesn't have huge problems getting everyone on side. Hard to predict how things will turn out, but with this being the final battle they need to focus on stopping Takano from accomplishing her plans.

Agree the story of this series has been excellent. Always did a good job of keeping one wondering what was going on and changing theories on the source of all the problems going on here. Not much further to go in order to reach the finish line. But some hurdles still going to be in the way.

Agreed, the series has been excellent since last year.
Though now that it's drawing to a close and mysteries being solved one after another.
It's a bit sad Higurashi is nearing the final episode.

@Episode 18

They won't need to stop only Takano, that mystery woman might have a backup plan in case Takano fails her.

[Eryops]

Originally Posted by -boiledliddo-

They won't need to stop only Takano, that mystery woman might have a backup plan in case Takano fails her.

I think that's doubtful. Her faction has lost most of its power. The only person that was willing to ally with her from within the Irie Institution is Takano (and by extension the Yamainu). If Takano's plan is exposed, then the group that succeeded Koizumi's faction will have both the means and the desire to stop them.

[theacefrehley]

In Hanyuu and Rika's talk in the end of this episode, they talk about "smashing takano's will"

So, we can assume that it's after Minagoroshi-hen world, since they already know who is the mastermind

But at the time of that talk, Keiichi was just entering the school in Hinamizawa

Did Hanyuu's loopback powers got recharged so that she could go back in time longer than in Minagoroshi?

Or in Matsuribayashi-hen world, Keiichi moves to Hinamizawa around the time of the festival?

[CelestialShadow]

Hmm i'm a bit confused.

i understand that the last 3 episodes were based on the puzzle minigame (kakera musubi) in the original sound novel, but are ALL the "pieces" viewed in hanyuu's eyes or just some of them and the rest are just facts presented to us? if it is the former, i would have thought rika would be optimistic enough in her first few "tries" in the first few "worlds" to get hanyuu to find the culprit - unless hanyuu was already pessimistic even then.

If rika and hanyuu had the opportunity to travel back to several yrs b4 1983, why didn't they try to change certain events (such as but not limited to averting satoshi's fate). Granted they did certain things such as raising the chances of maebara moving over. My guess is that they didn't want to screw up things for their battle in 1983 and the fact rika is just a kid physically but i just have a feeling that they could have done more. in some sense, it's as if she gave up saving her parents, satoko's parents, satoshi etc.

Also, why did hanyuu still insist on apologising to rena and satoshi? didn't she learn enough from the previous worlds that her actions only worsen their deteriorating mental state? (or is this specific part just a pure flashback)

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by CelestialShadow

Hmm i'm a bit confused.

i understand that the last 3 episodes were based on the puzzle minigame (kakera musubi) in the original sound novel, but are ALL the "pieces" viewed in hanyuu's eyes or just some of them and the rest are just facts presented to us? if it is the former, i would have thought rika would be optimistic enough in her first few "tries" in the first few "worlds" to get hanyuu to find the culprit - unless hanyuu was already pessimistic even then.

As stated by the start of Kakera Musubi (in the game), the pieces are shown through Hanyuu's eyes. And yes, she was rather nihilist for a good amount of time already.

If rika and hanyuu had the opportunity to travel back to several yrs b4 1983, why didn't they try to change certain events (such as but not limited to averting satoshi's fate). Granted they did certain things such as raising the chances of maebara moving over. My guess is that they didn't want to screw up things for their battle in 1983 and the fact rika is just a kid physically but i just have a feeling that they could have done more. in some sense, it's as if she gave up saving her parents, satoko's parents, satoshi etc.

Some events cannot be averted. As demonstrated in many chapters, Rika already tried to prevent things all the time. Her best success was probably that Akasaka is alive (as he doesn't have a high chance of survival in the events of himatsubushi-hen, 5 years prior)

you also kinda answered your own question: Rika doesn't have the physical abilities nor the "age" sufficient to avert things. for the first case, it isn't possible to prevent the "murder" of the dam managed. For the second, she has no possibility to accompagn the houjou couple (especially considering they are outcast, so Rika would hardly be able to follow them).
For the third instance, we don't even know how the yamainu/takano killed both her parents. And finally, for Satoshi... nope, not possible as he acted during the festival, and Rika was trapped.

Rika has near to none range of action in the past, and can barely salvage/guarantee some factors to occur (Akasaka, Keiichi, etc).

Also, why did hanyuu still insist on apologising to rena and satoshi? didn't she learn enough from the previous worlds that her actions only worsen their deteriorating mental state? (or is this specific part just a pure flashback)

It is hard to tell if Hanyuu knows it or not.
However, don't forget that hanyuu "saved" Rena. As you could see, Rena cut her wrists and she was in fact commiting suicide (staying in a hot bath prevents the blood to coagulate, and the dizzy feeling from it will prevent the pain to kick in. It might even knock the person into sleep/drowsiness).
If Hanyuu didn't freaked her out (on/without purpose), Rena might be dead by now.

Hanyuu isn't trying to put everything worse, but since she is helpless, she cannot do much except apologizing in her corner.

[Kanzaki Urumi]

oh ok, hanyuu was the one making those footstep sound? I thought it was one of the symptoms of the hinamizawa disease...

[Klashikari]

One symptom of the Hinamizawa syndrome is in fact being sensitive to hanyuu actions, being able to hear her noises and voice (as demonstrated with Satoko who could hear her saying "i'm sorry").

This is the same for Keiichi in Onikakushi-hen, when he was clawing out his throat. (and obviously, Shion in the Ritual Tools Chamber, and other moments)

[MezzoDragon]

Hanyuu needs to say something aside from "I'm sorry" during those encounters. That could prevent extreme paranoia. If anything, it will make her stop sounding like a broken record.

[Klashikari]

well... the problem is actually if... she didn't try it before.
And since people are paranoid, ANYTHING can turn them even more crazy, so "i'm sorry" or anything else make the matter worse :x

[FlareKnight]

Originally Posted by Rias

If you are considering that this event ONLY happened in Matsuribayashi-hen, since the game text never stated if this was a one time only event or happened many times, then it's weird that Rika looped back to a time before the Maebara moved in, as we know that her loopback time gets closer to the festival everytime. So in the end, it's really a mystery why Ichiro was able to see Hanyuu.

Well since I only have what I've seen with the anime it's guess work on my side. But seems that everyone coming together before getting sent back mgiht of gotten Hanyuu some sort of boost. Either that or deciding to gamble everything on this last world pulling her reserves to toss herself as far back as possible.

Really working on the belief that everything we've seen has been from this throw back. At least this is the only way I've been able to rationalize Rika coming this far back. Don't think it's looking to the previous times when Rika was still able to go far back.

As to Keiichi not showing = worse case scenario...that's a bit extreme. It's true that he plays a crucial role, as demostarted in Minagoroshi-hen; he is also the much needed "new wind". However, think about all the times he didn't do much, as he only started to affect the 3 rules starting the end of Tsumihoroboshi-hen. Rika has also expressed her suprise that Keiichi was able to convince Rena in Tsumihoroboshi-hen, as she always thought that he was kinda useless (Minagoroshi-hen intro)

Well we have seen that if everyone isn't working together then there isn't any hope. Thus if one of them is not there completely it really is the worst case scenario. Even Satoko's uncle coming back while bad can be overcome with a group effort. But can't do anything if someone doesn't come there period.

Rika started to appreciate the importance of his showing up thus the comment that him not moving there was the worst situation. While there were worlds he didn't play a crucial role his presence meant there was a chance of him playing a role. Rika doesn't have a way out without him.

I'll give Hanyuu some slack. Since she just wants to apologize for not being able to do anything at this point. Did a good job at saving Rena from suicide, since losing her would be a major loss for the group's efforts.

Still 19 can't come quick enough. Finally time to start making some moves against Takano. Rika will have to play things smart. Series has been full of mysteries and questions, but now we're at the point where a battle for victory is going to be the major mission.

[melange]

Originally Posted by Kanzaki Urumi

oh ok, hanyuu was the one making those footstep sound? I thought it was one of the symptoms of the hinamizawa disease...

My question about this is... doesn't Hanyuu 'float' most of the time or at least some of the time? If she's 'floating' then why are there extra footsteps?

[Rayneing]

She usually seems to be on the ground to me. She just kinda fades in at times, but I don't think we've ever actually seen her float.