Mobile Suit Gundam AGE - Episode 04 Discussion

[SonicSP]

Originally Posted by PzIVf3

Woolf can be annoying but he's leadership quality, motivating to the untrained stress kid pilot and quick decision making in the battlefield is excellent.

I hope Woolf gives Flit some more basic military mock-up training and instruction guidance to mentally prepared for the stress in the warfare.

Yeah, he does have that potential be a potential mentor. An annoying self centered mentor but a mentor that can act with seriousness and responsibility when the time calls for it.

I don't think episode 4 advanced in terms of plot that much although it is very interesting to see the Ship and Grodek figuring it out, but I say Woolf far makes up for it. I was pleasantly surprised, because I assumed it was going to be boring because a story arc ended last week but it turned out to be an engaging fun episode.

[ion475]

Well, few comments...

As far as plot. Well, "practice battle" -> enemy appears. Like I didn't expect that. Not complaining about it myself, just that I predicted it 5 minutes before the UE appears...White Wolf is your typical arrogant (yet "mentor-like") ace, nothing new there either, except that he should have use a real gun and destroy Gundam already (Flit is just not a good pilot, not that I expect him to be since that would be unrealistic).

On the other hand, I already miss Yurin. What's Emily trying to accomplish? Being the most annoying Gundam heroine since Nina Purpleton?

On last note, it's not like this series is even bad (If anything, it's a return to earlier Gundam series), it just lack a Captain Bright to slap Flit around and kiddish character design. But plot? Certainly better than 00 in my opinion. What does the series lack? I guess a badass like Char...

[wingdarkness]

Wow the chat really picked up...

Originally Posted by kaito-kid

- the story and the characters! ..Need more layers. this is too thin for a Gundam show, even if it's aimed at a younger audience.. By the way, how exactly is this going to work? there is not enough action and explosions in this show to get a kids attention. but there is not enough depth for the average adult. who exactly is going to watch this? (other than us, the Gundam fans) How are the ratings so far?

That's what I was saying...If you're gonna make it for kids' under the guise that it won't really be kiddy you gotta do more than one-note...After 4 episodes the only layer is that Captain Harlock might possibly be shady...Other than that there's nothing that I can cite that has any depth that's intrigued me...So I'm kinda waiting for the spamalot scenes where they just go for the ADD factor...After seeing that new ship and all the MechaGargoyles guarding it...I think spamz-a-comin'...

What made Turn A and V Gundam so good IMO despite a credible disliking of character designs was the mishmash of genre elements...Putting affable designs to the backdrop of such brutality and harshness makes for an interesting genre bend...To do this in a matter-of-fact way to the backdrop of more implied vulgarity is tough if you really don't enjoy the designs...

I get it, it's not for me, but still for it to be this simple early on, it's tuff...

Originally Posted by Dark Wing

Personally I don't think Woolf has any dog ears at all thats just probably how his hair is styled...

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

If only more people can accept this. But I guess they're just happier creating things in their mind to hate the show more.

Such sad people.

Yeah I'm sad and crazy for mistaking flappy ear-like folds on the top of a character named Wolf''s head for flappy ear-like ears on top of a character named Wolf's head...They look like some Inuyasha $hit, but maybe those were ear-like folds all these years...I'm not very observant in mutant-audiology^^...

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

I think some people take it as a sworn duty to bitch about and find fault with whatever the latest Gundam series is and take some perverse pleasure in doing so, but like I said, right now it's pretty tame here. If worse comes to worse the whiners and moaners have clearly established who they are (and have for a while now ^^^) and can be reported as necessary if they decide to break the rules. So far nobody has taken it to the extreme this week so personally I'm okay even if most of the complaints seem utterly trivial to me and more of the usual expecting a show to be something it never intended to be.

LOL, dude you are like the Internet Sheriff...Guess I can't hate if you're being true to yourself with this...Can't say I ever think about stuff like this when I log on to talk about topics on the net...I just scan for awesome posts, no matter the posters' tendencies or ilk...Then hopefully find someone awesome deplorable to debate...

Originally Posted by brightman

Someone at Sunrise is probably watching the ratings very closely too.

LOLDuh^^...We all know they keep about 200 animators on retainer like the A-team to deal with such problems...


@Deacon Blues -

[Duo Maxwell]

I still remember people got excited about 00 first ep, then complain for the next several eps until the Trinity's appearance because how boring it was with their "mission of the week" and slow pace.

Now I see history repeats itself, with different audiences.

Fascinating, no?

[ion475]

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

I still remember people got excited about 00 first ep, then complain for the next several eps until the Trinity's appearance because how boring it was with their "mission of the week" and slow pace.

Now I see history repeats itself, with different audiences.

Fascinating, no?

The thing is, 00 did start REALLY slow. On the other hand, people have to realized that instead of Episode 3 (aka the new "Golden Standard" thanks to Madoka), you need to wait until Episode 13 to fully determine where this series will go, with this being a 1-year (52 episodes) series....

I guess it does takes people's time to adjust back to single Gundam mode (Starts with W, then really blew out of proportion with Seed/Seed-D, and 00 continues that trend just to sell Plamo...). Of course, we all know more Gundam = more male character = more fujoshis watching Gundam...(No, I'm not talking about, let say, Gundam Exia "doing it" with Gundam Dynames. Wait, wrong series)

[wingdarkness]

I LOVED Gundam 00 first arc, and never felt like it was boring or slow...I really got what Mizushima was trying to achieve with it relying on character motivations as the key to telling the story rather than over-accentuating the procedural "Gundam" elements...I didn't start getting squirrelly until the GnX's started showing up and spelled the beginning of the tech f**k-fest...The only thing that brought my grade down on OO was the treatment of Graham's character (He had no plot powers) and the over-reliance on spam at the end (Gagas GoodGod)...Everything else was great, then the movie had to fudge it up a bit, but such is life^^...

But for me it's not so much Gundam Age is boring or slow, it's that it doesn't have any layers...Certainly not enuff to combat the obvious criticisms of it's "kiddiness"...I mean 4 episodes into any show usually there are good hints of this (As you get to understand the atmosphere and formula of a show), but it hasn't shown any so far IMO...

Back to GundamOO...Without comparing it to Age unfairly, even if you thought it was slow, you couldn't deny all the moving parts that were being woven...

[brightman]

Originally Posted by Duo Maxwell

I still remember people got excited about 00 first ep, then complain for the next several eps until the Trinity's appearance because how boring it was with their "mission of the week" and slow pace.

Now I see history repeats itself, with different audiences.

Fascinating, no?

I can only imagine how other Gundam shows (some that turn out to be rather critically acclaimed) like G, X and Turn A would fare in these forums had they existed back then...

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Back to GundamOO...Without comparing it to Age unfairly, even if you thought it was slow, you couldn't deny all the moving parts that were being woven...

I always though 00 was a bit too pretentious for its own good though. It tried very hard to make itself complicated, but all of this complication seemed contrived once you realize that the whole Season 1 was basically a lesson in world affairs aimed at high school kids who didn't know much about the stuff. (lets not even get into Season 2 & the movie in which practically the whole point was to preach about a single topic)

IMO sometimes a simple but fun experience is all it takes, and AGE has certainly been fun so far. A bit bland, like I said, but definitely fun.

[GN0010 Nosferatu]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Yeah I'm sad and crazy for mistaking flappy ear-like folds on the top of a character named Wolf''s head for flappy ear-like ears on top of a character named Wolf's head...They look like some Inuyasha $hit, but maybe those were ear-like folds all these years...I'm not very observant in mutant-audiology^^...

I'm sorry, and I mean no offense, but that is sad. I just don't see how any can mistakenly think those were ears, and because of his name?

How can someone think of: http://images.wikia.com/inuyasha/ima...asha-child.jpg

When seeing Woolf?

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by Shiroth

Exactly what i was going to say.

But yeah, guess this is expected from Deacon Blues?

More like expected of Gundam threads in general. Anyway this one is hitting critical whining mass right around the usual time so....yeah....can't say anythings really unexpected. Some people are really trying to drag this thread into the gutter this week in particular, but I honestly think they think that they are helping to further discussion, that's kind of the sad part. I can't say I'm terribly surprised though since this probably is the most average episode yet and god knows everything gets amplified 3x over whenever it's Gundam. It's like Gundam is the only show not allowed to have an average episode or something.

Gonna start the club thread in any case.

Oh and about the worst trend I've seen started this week. Bitching about Emily's actions this episode. Apparently people just can't stand it when female characters are passive-aggressive and apparently they just do not get what her goal was this episode at all. It could not possibly have been more clear that she's worried about Flit's safety and wants him to not pilot the Gundam anymore so that he doesn't have to risk his life. I don't see how that's annoying in any conceivable way, it's more like showing another side to their relationship and how deep it goes, but eh...not expecting too many people to be in sync with this show anymore. Didn't happen with Gundam 00, why should it happen here?

Originally Posted by Ramp

Same feelings here, been trying really hard to like this, however the cliches and style just becomes more irritating. Going from wing, seed/sd, 00 back to this just leaves a very bad taste. Here's to hoping the next 2-3 episodes will somehow save this.

Care to err...describe what you mean by cliches? Just asking cause people love to spam that word and never with any sort of description as to what they mean. Seriously don't be afraid to go into detail or anything, it'll probably save your post.

[wingdarkness]

@ brightman - Well that's in the eye of the beholder, just like the AGE debate...There were some pretentious elements no doubt about it, but I thought it was fresh to use the motivations of the characters as a device for the plot rather than the result...And if you've read enuff of my posts you probably know i love hearing myself talk^^ and preachiness and pontificating (In the Gundam sense) can be extremely entertaining to me...Good debates while fighting is what i live for in Gundam...Having those ideas and thoughts being the weight of that beam-sword swing is what I pay for, so I probably enjoyed those elements much more than you...

IMO sometimes a simple but fun experience is all it takes, and AGE has certainly been fun so far. A bit bland, like I said, but definitely fun.

Bland is like the polar opposite of fun man...So I don't quite get that...To me it's the context...And the context of the fun in AGE isn't doing it for me quite yet...I'm not a person that gets excited about cat-ears and Moe love triangles, so I really don't see the fun in this show yet other than the intended effect for who they're targeting...

Originally Posted by GN0010 Nosferatu

I'm sorry, and I mean no offense, but that is sad. I just don't see how any can mistakenly think those were ears, and because of his name?

How can someone think of: http://images.wikia.com/inuyasha/ima...asha-child.jpg

When seeing Woolf?

I mean no offense, but how could you not? They introduce this character in this kid-freindly show where his "ears" wiggle on top of his head...After the fact it's clear that this is a symbolic choice that meshes well with his name Wolf (Wolf ears for Wolf), so not understanding this world yet (Since there has been no world-shaping in any way, shape, or form in this show)...Why would it be hard to fathom that we might be in the territory of mutants who come out of cold-sleep because they fight better in mobile suits? I simply used Inuyasha as a throwaway response...My point was WTF this guy has cutsey dawg-ears?

[brightman]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

@ brightman - Well that's in the eye of the beholder, just like the AGE debate...There were some pretentious elements no doubt about it, but I thought it was fresh to use the motivations of the characters as a device for the plot rather than the result...And if you've read enuff of my posts you probably know i love hearing myself talk^^ and preachiness and pontificating (In the Gundam sense) can be extremely entertaining to me...Good debates while fighting is what i live for in Gundam...Having those ideas and thoughts being the weight of that beam-sword swing is what I pay for, so I probably enjoyed those elements much more than you...

Not quite - for example I'm probably one of the only people on the 'net who enjoyed Gundam Seed Destiny for what it is - a debate about war and human society.

Gundam 00 isn't a debate - its just the writer writing about simple concepts and making them as convoluted as possible so they seem more complicated than they really are.

AGE isn't a debate either - at least not yet. The creators have hinted that there will be themes regarding generation gaps later on. I look forward to what that entails. For now, I enjoy the show for what it is - a simple mecha story about a kid fighting an unknown enemy. Besides, there's plenty of subplots to keep me entertained and I like that (so far) none of these elements involve superficial "complexities", like long-lost twin brothers, artificial robot mass-produced clone things, shiny-eye brainwaves, all-knowing super computers, magic pixie particles, etc. that aren't really allegorical of anything in the real world

Bland is like the polar opposite of fun man...So I don't quite get that...To me it's the context...And the context of the fun in AGE isn't doing it for me quite yet...I'm not a person that gets excited about cat-ears and Moe love triangles, so I really don't see the fun in this show yet other than the intended effect for who they're targeting...

What can I say... I guess unlike you I haven't lost my inner child?

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by brightman

What can I say... I guess unlike you I haven't lost my inner child?

Same here, that's what I think is going to leave some posters with very little common ground by the end of this show. There's a lot of operating under the assumption that all viewers give a fuck that it's somewhat light hearted and has some quirky character design choices and that these things are automatically bad.

Again I strangely feel like I've been through this kind of shit before. I have no idea when or where that could have possibly been though.

Like seriously, if people want things to be grimdark and whatnot then why are they still watching this show when they KNOW that sort of thing was never intended other than to bitch. I genuinely want an answer from wingdarkness in particular, but also from Deacon Blues. Like prove to me there's a point to this sort of discussion in this particular thread and I'll gladly engage in it, but otherwise it just looks like stupid whining and bitching to me that's going to lead to a whole lot of nothing other than a really bad thread in the end.

[Duo Maxwell]

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

Bland is like the polar opposite of fun man...So I don't quite get that...To me it's the context...And the context of the fun in AGE isn't doing it for me quite yet...I'm not a person that gets excited about cat-ears and Moe love triangles, so I really don't see the fun in this show yet other than the intended effect for who they're targeting...

I'm trying to figure out is it your way of talking, or are you trying your best to pick a fight....
Aside from you, I don't remember anyone got excited about the cat-ears.

And bland could be fun. I've seen people mashing through Dynasty Gundam, and while I feel the game as bland as possible, I was having fun playing it with my friends. I could have fun while playing Go, or Chess, but that doesn't mean I couldn't enjoy something bland.

[monster]

The layers will probably be there once we know how Flit's son and grandson fit into the story. The problem with AGE is that it's supposed to be a story about three generations, but the series have so far only stucked with Flit. So whether it's because they don't want to reveal things too early or something else, this beginning part of the story might just feel too slow for some people or lack any depth/layers/whatever.

And for what it's worth, the story does seem to be moving a bit slow for something that will cover nearly a hundred year's worth of conflict and three generations. By comparison, some other Gundam series filled some 50-odd episodes with one year's worth of conflict/story.

On the other hand, I can't help but enjoy it so far. So, certainly, I can see some merits from both sides.

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by monster

On the other hand, I can't help but enjoy it so far. So, certainly, I can see some merits from both sides.

I'd probably be able to see the other side of things better if the other side was capable of expressing themselves a little better, went into a little more detail about what their beef is, and didn't constantly undermine it's goals and POV by getting facts about the show wrong and just having hard to relate to complaints in general.

Maybe also looking like they are here to take part in a community discussion and not just to bitch or hear themselves talk would help to build a little more common ground as well. Though I might be asking too much in this particular case.

An example of what I'd call a good relatable critical post is kaito-kids from earlier. Guy was very detailed about what he liked and what he didn't like and says that he's looking forward to the show picking up. That kind of post shows an open mind and that he's open to discussion on his points and possibly expects it. An example of ones I have a hard time relating too would be Deacon Blues or Ramps. Both are very short, don't do much to explain their grievances, are full of hyperbole, and just come across as vaguely trollbaitish. An example of one that is just plain confusing would be everything that wingdarkness has written for the last page or so.

Like I said to that one Scr3wius guy from a couple weeks ago, people just have to do better if they want people to take their critical posts seriously and not as trollbait. Just be clear, be at least moderately detailed and for the love of god don't spam and hijack the thread and I'm sure we'll all get along. I hate having to think this is too much to ask.

[wingdarkness]

Originally Posted by brightman

Not quite - for example I'm probably one of the only people on the 'net who enjoyed Gundam Seed Destiny for what it is - a debate about war and human society.

Gundam 00 isn't a debate - its just the writer writing about simple concepts and making them as convoluted as possible so they seem more complicated than they really are.

AGE isn't a debate either - at least not yet. The creators have hinted that there will be themes regarding generation gaps later on. I look forward to what that entails. For now, I enjoy the show for what it is - a simple mecha story about a kid fighting an unknown enemy. Besides, there's plenty of subplots to keep me entertained and I like that (so far) none of these elements involve superficial "complexities", like long-lost twin brothers, artificial robot mass-produced clone things, shiny-eye brainwaves, all-knowing super computers, magic pixie particles, etc. that aren't really allegorical of anything in the real world

Like I say, say what you will about gundam OO, but I found many (not all) of the in-fight debates great (Mostly from Graham, Lockon)....Not anywhere close to being as good as Gundam Wing, or anything Char has ever said in that relation, but I enjoyed Gundam OO for the fractured storytelling and the ability to respect the Gundam genre while still telling it's own story...Some of it was bull$hit (Pedobear's son Andrei), but some of it was enjoyable...

I think Gundam OO will be seen as one of the most ambitious and unique G-shows 20 years from now...As much as I love Tomino's works, to call OO more pretentious than some of his stuff is a slippery slope...

Although I do get what you are saying, I like nondescript storytelling at times...It's as if Mizushima was saying to me that being a loyal fan of Gundam, he didn't need to coddle me by reintroducing the procedural elements (He's walking on the 2nd level from the start)...He just dove deep into the pool like eff-it...

As the story progresses you get a sense that he's created a show that's innately Gundam, yet exists outside of it...Then it's almost a prequel of sorts to the franchise...I think there's more depth than people realized, but that's up to debate...

What can I say... I guess unlike you I haven't lost my inner child?

LOL, yet somehow I still find the need to have an SD Gundam character as my avatar^^...I love my inner child, I just don't want him to have green hair and pilot a Gundam ...


@Duo Maxwell - you've read my posts for quite sometime...I think you know when I'm blazing fire...I have buddies in the G-forum (or atleast i'd like to think that since I've been here since Jan '04)...I think it's entirely possible to rip things you like and talk in an adult or arguably coarse manner about things you can still respect...It's like talking with good friends, we even make fun of $hit we like...This forum has become too sensitive...Guess I'm just stuck in 2004-2008 on this site...Right brightman? Ask him, he knows...But to be short, yes this is just my way of talking...

Originally Posted by K-Sama

Both are very short, don't do much to explain their grievances, are full of hyperbole, and just come across as vaguely trollbaitish. An example of one that is just plain confusing would be everything that wingdarkness has written for the last page or so.

I don't know...Maybe one day, maybe not, but hopefully you will come to terms with these issues and learn to accept that many people just aren't like you...

This is a place where you comment on Gundam...And aslong as people can do that without brazenly breaking forum rules...You have no debate, only longings......

[monster]

Originally Posted by Kaioshin Sama

An example of what I'd call a good relatable critical post is kaito-kids from earlier. Guy was very detailed about what he liked and what he didn't like and says that he's looking forward to the show picking up. That kind of post shows an open mind and that he's open to discussion on his points and possibly expects it. An example of ones I have a hard time relating too would be Deacon Blues or Ramps. Both are very short, don't do much to explain their grievances, are full of hyperbole, and just come across as vaguely trollbaitish. An example of one that is just plain confusing would be everything that wingdarkness has written for the last page or so.

Well, for what it's worth, I think many of them share some common criticisms of AGE with kaito-kid. So if you find that kaito-kid offered a good relatable post, then maybe use that post as a guideline if/when trying to address others' critical posts.

[Duo Maxwell]

@windarkness: Sometimes, it's really hard to know if you're just on fire, or you are actually being rational with that way of posting. They attracts too much unnecessary attention because your posts could be view as a flamebait with new members (post 2008 ones).

[Kaioshin Sama]

Originally Posted by monster

Well, for what it's worth, I think many of them share some common criticisms of AGE with kaito-kid. So if you find that kaito-kid offered a good relatable post, then maybe use that post as a guideline if/when trying to address others' critical posts.

That just seems like a bad idea. It assumes to much about other people and sort of works as a bait and switch of the kind that often gets people accused of building a straw man type argument. Plus it's just poor form to put other people's words in someones mouth and not very fair at that. I'd rather give them the opportunity to explain themselves with their own words/posts and if not they can just enjoy being ignored for the low content posts they are I guess.

Originally Posted by wingdarkness

I don't know...Maybe one day, maybe not, but hopefully you will come to terms with these issues and learn to accept that many people just aren't like you...

This is a place where you comment on Gundam...And aslong as people can do that without brazenly breaking forum rules...You have no debate, only longings......

Already done that. I know most people aren't like me, still doesn't mean they can't at least make an effort to better convey their grievances. It's the sort of thing that would help further discussion if that is the genuine intent of such posts. Also "only longings"? Do you mean people would be longing for debate? Does that assume all people are here for that purpose? If so that's a rather strange way of putting it and that's exactly the sort of thing I've been talking about with where this thread has gone today. We're kind of in total communication breakdown mode here and thus I see no possible harm in people making a better effort to convey their thoughts here. Just cause it's the internet doesn't mean people have to be vague about everything.

[james0246]

Can we please stop this pointless discussion about how to discuss the discussion of Gundam series? Please confine the discussion to Gundam Age and its story and characters and not how we should or should not discuss the series or its fans/detractors. Consider this a warning.