[Manga] Chapter 402 Discussion

[nitteo]

This Sasuke saga is getting even more ridiculous.

The plot feels like Kishi was "writing under the influence."

So now we have Sasuke replacing Itachi in Akatsuki who is under Madara's tutelage vs Naruto who is a Hokage's son.

The final battles look like Sasuke vs Naruto, and Madara vs Tsunade who is a descendant of the First.

Who will fight Pain? We already lost Ero-Senin...

[Mon Cheri]

I cried.. my Itachi <3

[HiroInazuma]

I liked seeing Itachi and Sasuke when he was a Naruto a playful hyperactive annoying little kid just as God intended all little boys to be, I think it is just that Sasuke treats his grief by vowing to destroy something or beating the crap out of Naruto (I like the beating the crap out of Naruto, because then Naruto gets a new power up), I think Sasuke is just fuzzled by the recent news I mean wouldn't your mind be confused and make retarded decisions if what happened to Sasuke happened to you?

'I watched as Itachi died'
'I cried as Itachi died'
'I decided to destroy Konoha as Itachi died' - Body Harvest on N64 reference tweaked a bit

[Mists]

I can't relate.

What I don't understand...is Itachi was indeed as calculating as he was...why the heck did he give Sasuke EMS? He expected Sasuke to kill Madara? It just doesn't make sense Itachi would assume Sasuke would carry on the torch to protect Konoha, especially how he was under Oro who hated Konoha, didn't care for Konoha anymore etc...

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Mists

What happened to 'Hawk?' No explanation, they are just there with Kisame and Madara. Did none of them get injured? And so Kisame knows Madara's identity?

I failed to find Kisame in this Chapter.

Originally Posted by Mists

I can't relate.

What I don't understand...is Itachi was indeed as calculating as he was...why the heck did he give Sasuke EMS? He expected Sasuke to kill Madara? It just doesn't make sense Itachi would assume Sasuke would carry on the torch to protect Konoha, especially how he was under Oro who hated Konoha, didn't care for Konoha anymore etc...

That's where his calculation failed, or so it seems, for all we know, this could be part of his plans.

[tatami]

he gave him his eye techs not EMS right? and it was to protect sasuke from madaras speech yet madara somehow survived amaterasu.

[Mists]

Originally Posted by Rurik

I failed to find Kisame in this Chapter.

You're right, the guy in the Akatsuki cloak is Madara.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by MysticNinjaJay

This chapter was beautifully well-done. I felt really sorry for Sasuke when they showed him crying. Itachi's smile telling him there won't be a next-time was one of the most powerful images in the series.

Truth to that.

Originally Posted by Lady Rave

Question.. If Itachi was spose to be in the academy still in the flashback.. why is Sasuke that big.. Doesn't that make Itachi like 7 years old?

Or did he graduate at a later age wasn't he rather young.

There are a couple of time skips in the flashback, the first 2 pages are obviously when Itachi was in the academy, then the time skip is forwarded to when Itachi is already a Chunin in page 4 on the third panel (this is part of the flashback we already seen with Itachi and Sasuke doing shuriken training).

The flashback were basically to create an emotional background for the reader to drive them to the title Chapter, “The Last words” and so the reader knows exactly the meaning behind those words.

[Vindi89]

Unless Itachi had the ability to see into the future, there are just too many things that could have caused his 'plans' to go wrong. I just can't buy that Sasuke was following Itachi's plan from the beginning (without even knowing it). A few examples of this:

How did Itachi know Orochimaru wouldn't just take Sasuke's body without training him?

How did Itachi know that Sasuke would survive against Deidara, especially since he hasn't seen Sasuke's combat level from before the timeskip?

How did he know Sasuke was going to survive Amaratsu?

And what if Sasuke did manage to die in one of those encounters, what would he have done? Go.. oh well, I tried...?

Now apparently Sasuke is working with Madara to destroy Konoha. Talk about a screwed sense of justice. I'd have more respect for him if he faced Madara first then worried about Konoha.


On a side note anyone find this Uchiha massacre similar to the Quincy massacre in Bleach?

[BlackDove]

Ultimately all of this sucks for me, because we all know Naruto is going to have to be the winner (due to the show being named after him).

Right now I'm not all that keen on the idea. Uchiha really got shafted in a subversive manner, and they all wound up dead even as a result. I actually want Konoha to burn.

Amazing chapter though.

[Rurik]

Originally Posted by Vindi89

Unless Itachi had the ability to see into the future, there are just too many things that could have caused his 'plans' to go wrong. I just can't buy that Sasuke was following Itachi's plan from the beginning (without even knowing it). A few examples of this:

How did Itachi know Orochimaru wouldn't just take Sasuke's body without training him?

How did Itachi know that Sasuke would survive against Deidara, especially since he hasn't seen Sasuke's combat level from before the timeskip?

How did he know Sasuke was going to survive Amaratsu?

And what if Sasuke did manage to die in one of those encounters, what would he have done? Go.. oh well, I tried...?

Lets say he did not know, he just made his plan, and to this point, everything played out perfectly.

For example, I think it is clear that Orochimaru was not part of his plan, reason why he did what he did to get rid of the presence of the CS and Orochimaru from Sasuke.

Deidara fight is understandable, Sasuke begun to move against Itachi when he was ready to fight people at that caliber, Itachi already explained Sasuke don’t come to me if you are not ready to fight me, and is not as if Sasuke got out unprepared, and because Everyone’s in Naruto verse seems to know Sasuke potential as a Shinobi, Itachi did not expected for Sasuke to fail.

Either way, in essence, a plan, is that, a plan, you make a plan, and you foresee possible problem that could ruin the plan, but those are just risk you take, there are a lot of things that could had gone wrong on Itachi's plan, random events that can’t be avoided (for example, Sasuke been infected by the same disease that was killing Itachi). But those are just risk that are taken.

So, Itachi don’t need to know the future, is just a matter of playing out your pieces as good as possible and having faith that everything runs smooth.

[Kakashi]

Ultimately all of this sucks for me, because we all know Naruto is going to have to be the winner (due to the show being named after him).

Right now I'm not all that keen on the idea. Uchiha really got shafted in a subversive manner, and they all wound up dead even as a result. I actually want Konoha to burn.

Amazing chapter though.

I think we knew Naruto was going to be the winner from the beginning of the series. If you weren't prepared for that, maybe this isn't the right manga for you. I see a lot of complaints about how irrational Sasuke is being, which is true but necessary unless you want another 10 chapters focused on how Sasuke misconstrues Itachi's efforts as a mistake on Itachi's behalf. Why complain when this way, although we are somewhat left in the dark as to what's going on inside Sasuke's head, we get to see Naruto again. Isn't that what a lot of you wanted?

A chapter doesn't suck if the last page seems illogical. How many times have we said this sucks, this sucks, this sucks, it doesn't make any sense. Only for Kishimoto to address it later on. Then everyone shuts up and look for a new plot hole. Accept there will be inconsistencies and Kishi will fill them in along the way. Sasuke's reasoning for wanting to crush Konoha isn't a simple matter. Obviously his reaction is stupid, but it's hardly unbelievable. Sasuke is confused right now. Get it? Is that hard to believe?

I thought this chapter was great. Itachi was closed of very nicely and I don't think he'll loose his fangirls/boys. Beautifully told like someone already said. Additionally what seemed like a poor arc gradually turned into a very good or great one, depending on whether you liked the Itachi/Sasuke brothers dynamic. Personally I digged it, so for me it's the end of a great arc.

My only complaint is, unfortunatly Sasuke is still an avenger

[Goshin]

I kishi will use this revenge arc as an aportunity to kill of team hawk, and give one of the konoha teams some spotelight. actually i am not content with the amount plot in this chapter, i shoudl go hibernate and wake up next week

[Blaine]

Originally Posted by Rurik

I failed to find Kisame in this Chapter.




That's where his calculation failed, or so it seems, for all we know, this could be part of his plans.

Wasnt it stated in the Kishi interview topic that he didnt want to draw the hebi/hawk vs kisame fight?

[Slave0fLife]

Originally Posted by kakashi-san

I think we knew Naruto was going to be the winner from the beginning of the series. If you weren't prepared for that, maybe this isn't the right manga for you. I see a lot of complaints about how irrational Sasuke is being, which is true but necessary unless you want another 10 chapters focused on how Sasuke misconstrues Itachi's efforts as a mistake on Itachi's behalf. Why complain when this way, although we are somewhat left in the dark as to what's going on inside Sasuke's head, we get to see Naruto again. Isn't that what a lot of you wanted?

A chapter doesn't suck if the last page seems illogical. How many times have we said this sucks, this sucks, this sucks, it doesn't make any sense. Only for Kishimoto to address it later on. Then everyone shuts up and look for a new plot hole. Accept there will be inconsistencies and Kishi will fill them in along the way. Sasuke's reasoning for wanting to crush Konoha isn't a simple matter. Obviously his reaction is stupid, but it's hardly unbelievable. Sasuke is confused right now. Get it? Is that hard to believe?

I am not surprised, if what he said is what he really wants to do - I don't think it's the mature thing to do, it's like killing the entire US because Bush & co. did something bad/horrible - but I do understand that the emotions might be overwhelming to him, due to the "I spent my life trying to kill the person who loved me the most" thing. I also won't be surprised if he is just faking to be on Madara's side (this would make him have good acting abilities, to me).

Originally Posted by kakashi-san

I thought this chapter was great. Itachi was closed of very nicely and I don't think he'll loose his fangirls/boys. Beautifully told like someone already said. Additionally what seemed like a poor arc gradually turned into a very good or great one, depending on whether you liked the Itachi/Sasuke brothers dynamic. Personally I digged it, so for me it's the end of a great arc.

My only complaint is, unfortunatly Sasuke is still an avenger

I actually always wait to say "this sucks" or "this is great" only at the end of a manga/movie/anime/etc, because of the possibility of plot twists that make the series good. I have to say, I am one of those who felt that the image of Itachi saying the last words was incredible. I really did like the whole ordeal, and I actually felt really bad that Itachi is gone this chapter (although if he didn't die, it wouldn't have such an impact).

[Kittycountess]

Originally Posted by nitteo

This Sasuke saga is getting even more ridiculous.

My thoughts exactly. For a moment there I thought Kishi was going to take the story into a new direction now that the whole 'I = revenge' thing was over. I even dared to imagine that Sasuke would loose some of his evil shine and be out for a while which would give Naruto some time to face some baddies and improve his skills. Sasuke being damaged would have given Naruto's quest to 'rescue' him a lot more credit and would have taken the story out of its too predictable path of Naruto vs. Sasuke conclusion that everyone and their dog had been predicting so far.

The last panel of this chapter ruined all of that. Once again we are back to square one with Sasuke, the semi-evil, super powered 'must be returned to depot' avanger, and Naruto, the hopeless, gods only know what he's trying to do, main character. And we're left asking if Kishi can do anything nonrepetitive.

[Last of the Uchihas]

i will lol if Itachi did something similar to Naruto. Like giving him the power to resist genjutsu and stand up to Sasuke's MS.

[Sabaku Kyu]

Originally Posted by Blaine

Wasnt it stated in the Kishi interview topic that he didnt want to draw the hebi/hawk vs kisame fight?

It's said that Kishi was pressured to create team Hebi, but didn't originally plan on them being a part of the story. It sort of feels like that, the way they're being handled.

[FireDetei]

So because the Uchiha were going to take out Konoha, and konoha stopped it before it went too far, Sasuke now wants revenge for it? Oo

Kinda makes a difference from most dbz following shows, least he's not going "they paid for their crimes!!"

[Last of the Uchihas]

Originally Posted by FireDetei

So because the Uchiha were going to take out Konoha, and konoha stopped it before it went too far, Sasuke now wants revenge for it? Oo

Kinda makes a difference from most dbz following shows, least he's not going "they paid for their crimes!!"

you mean, because the Uchiha were responsible for creating the village, sided with the Shodai and not Madara, and later the village segregate and discriminate against them for years for something Madara did, and htey had enough of their bullshit that they decided a coup d'at?

i don't blame Sasuke for wanting revenge