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Old 2014-02-27, 21:08   Link #5921
shaqpabst
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Gramps got him if he survives this long battle lol
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Old 2014-02-28, 04:24   Link #5922
Breimoon
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this week no ch?
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Old 2014-02-28, 05:09   Link #5923
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finally scans out _
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Old 2014-02-28, 09:08   Link #5924
KLGChaos
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So, haven't read the series in like 50 chapters now ever since the Masters became the main characters and the disciples became useless and completely unimportant to the plot... Does Kenichi actually fight anymore, or is he still a sideline cheerleader getting overshadowed by the Masters, who've become the real stars, fighting the real important battles?
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Old 2014-02-28, 09:40   Link #5925
Yorae_paladin1
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Kenichi cannot defeat the masters of yami with his level of skill you can't expect that to happen without serious bad fairy tail style BS plot armor. The progression here is realistic while the masters distract other masters the disciples can deal with the rest
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Last edited by Yorae_paladin1; 2014-02-28 at 09:56.
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Old 2014-02-28, 10:22   Link #5926
KLGChaos
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Originally Posted by Yorae_paladin1 View Post
Kenichi cannot defeat the masters of yami with his level of skill you can't expect that to happen without serious bad fairy tail style BS plot armor. The progression here is realistic while the masters distract other masters the disciples can deal with the rest
Well, of course he can't... which is the series biggest problem. Yami shouldn't be the main villains in the first place if the MC can't fight them. They should be the "B" plot, not the "A" plot.
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Old 2014-02-28, 14:39   Link #5927
Johnny
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^This 100%.

As for the realistic plot progression, I call foul. They haven't taught him jack shit for hundred of chapters besides putting him into S&M devices. How's that realistic when you have all those masters around you? The series was stood on it's head a long time ago and the named should be switched to Ryozanpaku: The Mightiest Masters and the Disciple Who Just Watches...
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Old 2014-02-28, 17:35   Link #5928
Yorae_paladin1
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They have to build him up you can't just learn awesome moves right off the bat martial arts doesn't work that way it takes time. Especially since Kenichi does not have any natural talent. You guys want him to take on a master when such an encounter would men his death
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Neo Human Angelus Von Doom to Abyssal Riful before there battle. My fic saga revelations of the past title Advent Rising
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Old 2014-02-28, 18:03   Link #5929
KLGChaos
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Originally Posted by Yorae_paladin1 View Post
They have to build him up you can't just learn awesome moves right off the bat martial arts doesn't work that way it takes time. Especially since Kenichi does not have any natural talent. You guys want him to take on a master when such an encounter would men his death
No, we don't want him to take on a master. We want him to be the main focus of the story again, NOT the masters. As I said, I wouldn't mind Yami being around if they weren't the entire focus of the plot. But they are and it completely undermines Kenichi and the disciples who are relegated to fairly unimportant side roles while Masters are doing all the really important world saving stuff. The fact that the MC really is just a side character in the main plot of the entire manga really is just bad writing, imo.

When was the last time Kenichi had a real fight without some ambiguous ending that wasn't overshadowed by a Master fight with it? Or by Miu? It was against Ethan, wasn't it? How many hundreds of chapters was that ago? Even if you count the Tirawit fight and try to ignore the fact that Apachai's fight was the more emotional and important fight of the two, it's still been nearly 160 chapters since his last real, conclusive fight-- nearly one third of the manga. I don't count the fight against Miu as that didn't really have a conclusive ending. Kenichi learned more in the first 50 chapters of the series than he's learned in the last 200+. The pacing is completely horrible.

The way the series is progressing now, Kenichi is falling further and further out of the spotlight as Yami takes over and the series is on pace to either end around 5000 chapters or when the mangaka dies, which is the more likely scenario. I think the series just got away from the author and he completely forgot his original premise for the series, so now the MC is suffering for it and it's hard to take him or the disciples seriously anymore with world-devastating plots going on enacted by people they'll never have the ability to fight.

It's sad. Between this, Bleach and Naruto, I've completely lost faith in many mangaka's abilities to write a good action series as each one started out awesome, but ended up getting worse and worse as the stories dragged on.
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Old 2014-02-28, 18:24   Link #5930
Breimoon
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agreed. If he were to continue like this he should just hurry up with a timeskip and make him a low level master
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Old 2014-02-28, 18:57   Link #5931
Endscape
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
No, we don't want him to take on a master. We want him to be the main focus of the story again, NOT the masters. As I said, I wouldn't mind Yami being around if they weren't the entire focus of the plot. But they are and it completely undermines Kenichi and the disciples who are relegated to fairly unimportant side roles while Masters are doing all the really important world saving stuff. The fact that the MC really is just a side character in the main plot of the entire manga really is just bad writing, imo.

When was the last time Kenichi had a real fight without some ambiguous ending that wasn't overshadowed by a Master fight with it? Or by Miu? It was against Ethan, wasn't it? How many hundreds of chapters was that ago? Even if you count the Tirawit fight and try to ignore the fact that Apachai's fight was the more emotional and important fight of the two, it's still been nearly 160 chapters since his last real, conclusive fight-- nearly one third of the manga. I don't count the fight against Miu as that didn't really have a conclusive ending. Kenichi learned more in the first 50 chapters of the series than he's learned in the last 200+. The pacing is completely horrible.

The way the series is progressing now, Kenichi is falling further and further out of the spotlight as Yami takes over and the series is on pace to either end around 5000 chapters or when the mangaka dies, which is the more likely scenario. I think the series just got away from the author and he completely forgot his original premise for the series, so now the MC is suffering for it and it's hard to take him or the disciples seriously anymore with world-devastating plots going on enacted by people they'll never have the ability to fight.

It's sad. Between this, Bleach and Naruto, I've completely lost faith in many mangaka's abilities to write a good action series as each one started out awesome, but ended up getting worse and worse as the stories dragged on.
That's quite a short sighted way of looking at it. Kenichi's masters are stronger than him, but then most shounen manga have the main character be weaker than their mentors. The point is to watch the MC get stronger as time passes, which Kenichi has.

It's true that the manga focuses more on the master's fights lately, but that's because the series is about Kenichi as a disciple, and his position as such in the martial arts world. Kenichi is there, soaking up all the stuff his masters are doing, so one day he can join them.

Frankly, I find this way of doing things refreshing, compared to most shounen series where the MC quickly becomes stronger than people that have been doing this longer than him (not that I dislike that way of doing things, but variety is the spice of life)
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Old 2014-02-28, 19:37   Link #5932
Johnny
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yorae_paladin1 View Post
They have to build him up you can't just learn awesome moves right off the bat martial arts doesn't work that way it takes time. Especially since Kenichi does not have any natural talent. You guys want him to take on a master when such an encounter would men his death
Wrong on both counts on yours and Endscapes pov. First, for someone who has no natural he sure has defeated others that have trained their entire lifetime where he has what a year or two since he started, right...?

Secondly, point out where I said I wanted him to fight master class fighters? You can't because I didn't. I said the masters have taken over the story and Kenichi has learned nothing new and his main position has been a sidelined cheerleader. That's my beef with the manga...

Though I did get a laugh at it's a refreshing view to not rush the MC into being OP. You do realize that we're on chapter 559, right? The mangaka must be shooting for the other slower than snail pace, Hajime no Ippo where it takes five chapters to just go from the locker room to the ring...
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Old 2014-03-01, 00:31   Link #5933
KLGChaos
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Originally Posted by Endscape View Post
That's quite a short sighted way of looking at it. Kenichi's masters are stronger than him, but then most shounen manga have the main character be weaker than their mentors. The point is to watch the MC get stronger as time passes, which Kenichi has.

It's true that the manga focuses more on the master's fights lately, but that's because the series is about Kenichi as a disciple, and his position as such in the martial arts world. Kenichi is there, soaking up all the stuff his masters are doing, so one day he can join them.

Frankly, I find this way of doing things refreshing, compared to most shounen series where the MC quickly becomes stronger than people that have been doing this longer than him (not that I dislike that way of doing things, but variety is the spice of life)
People also think Twilight is refreshing... Lol. J/K. But seriously, to each his own, I guess.

I juts don't like the direction the series has taken. Kenichi does a LOT of standing around and has barely grown in 200 chapters now. As I said, he learned more moves in his first 50 chapters than he has since the DofD arc.

To me, it'd be playing a video game that starts off awesome, watching your character grow as he beats tough enemies. Then, halfway through the story, everything changes. The main antagonist is introduced and your character and his party have absolutely no hope of ever beating them, so as the story progresses you spend your time doing a few side missions and trying futility to fight, while spending the rest of the time watching cutscenes of NPCs doing all the important stuff.

Kenichi may be absorbing what's going on, but that's all he's doing. He's not really actively participating in anything anymore. he's not training or learning anything new and spends most of his time watching helplessly from the sidelines. I'd just rather read a manga where the focus is on the MC being more than a narrator and observer, which is what Kenichi has turned into. The two times he's actually had any real action since Tirawit, he was overshadowed by Miu (as the arc, and much of the story has been all about her since then) and the Akira/Jenezad fight in the Okinawa arc, and in the Amusement Park arc, he was overshadowed by Takeda and Tanaka both. Sure, he brushed the cheek of a super master class who probably didn't even bother trying to dodge, relying on the help of his more powerful friend to get him there and then spent the rest of it watching helplessly from the ground as Tanaka was killed.

And I don't think he's done anything at all since this arc started from what I've heard, though I can't be sure as I haven't read it since the end of the amusement park arc, which is where I lost all interest in the series.

I just think setting up an opponent the hero has absolutely no chance of ever fighting as the main antagonist of the series is just a bad decision. It makes the disciples fights look completely pointless in the long run when there's world-changing battles going on between the Masters. Seems like a lot of action series are badly suffering these days. Bleach with Aizen and his random loss because the gem suddenly decides it doesn't like him anymore, Naruto with Madara becoming so overpowered that Kishimoto has stated he has no clue how the heroes can even win....

Ah well, back into exile for another six months or so. I'll check back and see if Kenichi actually gets to do more than stand around looking pretty or jobbing to master class fighters while his masters fight the actual series antagonists. I probably should drop the series completely, but I can't. It used to be one of my favorites and I'm still hoping against hope that Kenichi and the disciples will one day actually be important to the story again, instead of just observers and cannon fodder.
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Old 2014-03-01, 01:03   Link #5934
Endscape
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Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
I juts don't like the direction the series has taken. Kenichi does a LOT of standing around and has barely grown in 200 chapters now. As I said, he learned more moves in his first 50 chapters than he has since the DofD arc.
But that's the thing. Kenichi isn't the same as he was before. Back then, he was so weak that he won fights not so much because he was more skilled than his opponents, but because he learned more exotic techniques they were unaware of.

Nowadays, ever since DofD arc, in fact, Kenichi has moved from being a underdog who barely won his fights to someone who people of his rank, like Boris have to take seriously. That's amazing, given the context of the series. Kenichi no longer needs to learn brand new techniques all the time to win. He can focus on training what he does know.

Quote:
To me, it'd be playing a video game that starts off awesome, watching your character grow as he beats tough enemies. Then, halfway through the story, everything changes. The main antagonist is introduced and your character and his party have absolutely no hope of ever beating them, so as the story progresses you spend your time doing a few side missions and trying futility to fight, while spending the rest of the time watching cutscenes of NPCs doing all the important stuff.

Kenichi may be absorbing what's going on, but that's all he's doing. He's not really actively participating in anything anymore. he's not training or learning anything new and spends most of his time watching helplessly from the sidelines. I'd just rather read a manga where the focus is on the MC being more than a narrator and observer, which is what Kenichi has turned into. The two times he's actually had any real action since Tirawit, he was overshadowed by Miu (as the arc, and much of the story has been all about her since then) and the Akira/Jenezad fight in the Okinawa arc, and in the Amusement Park arc, he was overshadowed by Takeda and Tanaka both. Sure, he brushed the cheek of a super master class who probably didn't even bother trying to dodge, relying on the help of his more powerful friend to get him there and then spent the rest of it watching helplessly from the ground as Tanaka was killed.
That's why I said you have misunderstood the concept of this manga from the beginning. Kenichi is a disciple. It's right there in the title. The series was from the get go, about Kenichi, as a disciple, going from nothing to master class one day. In order for Kenichi to truly understand how high a height he's reaching for, he needs a certain level of proficiency first. That was what the early stages of the manga was about.


Quote:
I just think setting up an opponent the hero has absolutely no chance of ever fighting as the main antagonist of the series is just a bad decision. It makes the disciples fights look completely pointless in the long run when there's world-changing battles going on between the Masters.

Ah well, back into exile for another six months or so. I'll check back and see if Kenichi actually gets to do more than stand around looking pretty or jobbing to master class fighters while his masters fight the actual series antagonists. I probably should drop the series completely, but I can't. It used to be one of my favorites and I'm still hoping against hope that Kenichi and the disciples will one day actually be important to the story again, instead of just observers and cannon fodder.
To use an analogy, would you say high school football is useless because the Premier League exists? Disciple fights might not be as flashy as the master fights, but they have a place and a purpose, as I've already explained.
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Old 2014-03-01, 02:18   Link #5935
KLGChaos
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High School football doesn't pit high school teams against NFL players like this manga does at times and High School players aren't sitting on the bench at an NFL game watching the real players play. What this manga has turned into is you've got the disciples trying to participate in the Super Bowl (Yami is the Super Bowl), which they obviously aren't good enough to do, and just like real life, people would ignore them in favor of the professional players. They're role in the whole thing is pointless.

Now, if they weren't playing the Super Bowl and instead focused on a smaller, high school level game, that'd be fine as they'd have a purpose other than being cheerleaders. Something they could really compete in. But that's not what the manga is focused on.

I'd be fine with Kenichi's slower growth if the manga's main antagonists were Yomi and not Yami. Yami being the series' main antagonist is what kills it for me. I just feel Yami should be the "B" plot of the series, while Kenichi and the disciples' growth is the "A" plot, which it was for a while. Somewhere along the way that changed and the growth of the disciples became secondary to Yami. That's where the series lost its way, imo. Just my personal feelings on it. I know others will disagree.
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Old 2014-03-01, 08:37   Link #5936
bludvein
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Originally Posted by KLGChaos View Post
High School football doesn't pit high school teams against NFL players like this manga does at times and High School players aren't sitting on the bench at an NFL game watching the real players play. What this manga has turned into is you've got the disciples trying to participate in the Super Bowl (Yami is the Super Bowl), which they obviously aren't good enough to do, and just like real life, people would ignore them in favor of the professional players. They're role in the whole thing is pointless.

Now, if they weren't playing the Super Bowl and instead focused on a smaller, high school level game, that'd be fine as they'd have a purpose other than being cheerleaders. Something they could really compete in. But that's not what the manga is focused on.

I'd be fine with Kenichi's slower growth if the manga's main antagonists were Yomi and not Yami. Yami being the series' main antagonist is what kills it for me. I just feel Yami should be the "B" plot of the series, while Kenichi and the disciples' growth is the "A" plot, which it was for a while. Somewhere along the way that changed and the growth of the disciples became secondary to Yami. That's where the series lost its way, imo. Just my personal feelings on it. I know others will disagree.
I for one do. I like the Master fights, but its always been a secondary thing. We read this manga to see the protagonist slowly turn into a badass, and somewhere along the line he became a cheerleader to the real fights instead.

Perhaps its the more realistic option, but its not the more interesting.
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Old 2014-03-01, 08:52   Link #5937
ellifeedn
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Correct me if I'm wrong, but was this war caused by Kenichi?
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Old 2014-03-01, 09:23   Link #5938
Fwarlord
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Originally Posted by bludvein View Post
I for one do. I like the Master fights, but its always been a secondary thing. We read this manga to see the protagonist slowly turn into a badass, and somewhere along the line he became a cheerleader to the real fights instead.

Perhaps its the more realistic option, but its not the more interesting.
Actually, I don't. One of this manga's trait is Kenichi being a wimp that he will always is. Being a weakling is something belongs to his very nature, it doesn't matter how strong or sturdy he physically becomes, in his mind set, Kenichi is always herbivore who can't hunt anything. Unlike his master and other martial artist, Kenichi doesn't have the desire to fight strong opponents on his own, he originally fights because he was bullied. He doesn't become stronger for the sake of fighting stronger opponents, but trains because his enemies appear one after another and his masters told him so. To put it simply, he doesn't have what it take to become an actual mighty warrior, he is just a puppet weakling that was stuffed with much power by his masters so it's natural for his masters to be the protagonists and he is a side character.
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Old 2014-03-01, 10:30   Link #5939
Battler-kun
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I hope they don't get miraculously out of this situation.
They are now even being outnumbered.
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Old 2014-03-01, 14:44   Link #5940
huynhlan
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I hope they don't get miraculously out of this situation.
They are now even being outnumbered.
I don't think they are going to be outnumber for long. Don't forget renka and Ma's uncle haven't show up yet. There is also the thing about Ma's wife and his two son, so they can also show you to help. At this point the masters are outnumber but if you think about it kenichi and his friends are also going to be out number by yomi so it's obvious renka is going to bring some backup since she is not with them at the moment.
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