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Old 2020-09-17, 20:58   Link #121
Master_Yoma
Nekokota Festival
 
 
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So Hachiman finely chooses between the girls but it was just so anticlimactic
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Old 2020-09-17, 21:49   Link #122
Psyco Diver
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Originally Posted by Master_Yoma View Post
So Hachiman finely chooses between the girls but it was just so anticlimactic
Not going to lie, I feel cheated also. Just felt like no emotion in it, granted neither one of them are emotional characters but it just felt like no stakes. Even though we know Yui wasn't going to win (even though she's best girl) I can see her character fleshing out Hachiman while with Yukino I don't see the 8- man ever developing further than we see him
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Old 2020-09-17, 22:06   Link #123
stray
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I think my bigger issue is that they're both so socially awkward I'm not sure how they're going to function in society. That said... is it too late for the series to go full White Album? Although Yui is probably too normie for Hachiman so maybe its a good thing it went the way it did.
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Old 2020-09-18, 02:24   Link #124
frodonk
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Originally Posted by Wandering Soul View Post
That's fitting considering the two charatcers involved. As Hachiman said they're both hopeless when it comes to social situations.
Couldn't agree more. That confession wouldn't have worked with any other couple anywhere in my opinion.

All I can say is I'm glad we got a proper ending to this anime.
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Old 2020-09-18, 05:51   Link #125
leongsh
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Originally Posted by Kanon View Post
That was probably the most complicated confession I've ever seen. Did something go over my head or did Hachiman completely disregard Sensei's advice?
It fits them both - Hachiman and Yukino. They are socially awkward. In fact, their confession to each other is a lot deeper than the simple "I love you" confession. They are basically committing to a relationship with each other akin to marriage without officially being married.

Hachiman did not disregard Shizuka's advice. He took it to heart that there is no need to use the word, love, if you can spell it out in the various ways that he can communicate the ways that he loves Yukino. Shizuka's example was the way she sees Hachiman and the summation of it is スキ (suki/"love") from what she shades over the napkin that she wrote what she sees in Hachiman. But hers is the love of a mentor, Hachiman is her favourite student. Thus, the socially awkward Hachiman said the many things he said to Yukino that left it without any doubt to Yukino that he loves her deeply. Yukino did the same in her own socially awkward words.

As to the comments by some that it felt anti-climatic, then my simple response is that you watched this series without a shred of understanding of the main characters and what has been developing into this 3rd season. The 3 of them have been avoiding direct communication of their feelings that caused to be stuck in the situation. After that talk with Shizuka, Hachiman went ahead to put it to a conclusion when the situation arose to do so. That moment of mini argument that got Yukino to be riled and walk away furiously from Hachiman presented that opportunity to him and he went for it. He saw it there and then that if he let her go that moment, he would have missed his chance.
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Old 2020-09-18, 08:07   Link #126
stray
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Originally Posted by leongsh View Post
The 3 of them have been avoiding direct communication of their feelings that caused to be stuck in the situation.
They had the luxury of being obtuse because of the club; with the club disbanding 8 saw the (very obvious) writing on the wall. Although he also seems to be taking for granted that things with Yui will stay more or less the same, which I'd hope will not be the case. I have a special hatred for love triangles with 'doormat' type characters who both help the leads get together (directly or indirectly) and are somehow genki enough to stay besties 5 minutes after being rejected. To quote the great Alto Saotome "when you choose something, you have to lose something."
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Old 2020-09-18, 08:43   Link #127
Klashikari
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Originally Posted by Master_Yoma View Post
So Hachiman finely chooses between the girls but it was just so anticlimactic
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Originally Posted by Psyco Diver View Post
Not going to lie, I feel cheated also. Just felt like no emotion in it, granted neither one of them are emotional characters but it just felt like no stakes. Even though we know Yui wasn't going to win (even though she's best girl) I can see her character fleshing out Hachiman while with Yukino I don't see the 8- man ever developing further than we see him
This might be blunt, but I honestly fail to see how you guys thought it was your conventional triangle whatsoever.
Hachiman was either going to remain alone or break out of his comfort zone and try something with Yukino. There was not a single implication Hachiman was going to "choose" someone.
There was not even a single moment there was some kind of romance ambiguity between him, Yukino and Yui. It was basically an awkward mutual respect growing into awkward love + someone on the sidelines. S1, albeit more oriented towards the club and the comedy, established why Hachiman and Yukino would come to know each other and "tolerate" each other. S2 went further away, exposing their respective issues, and S3 was basically giving the natural progression for their awkward relationship and conclude it with another one.

As opposed to White Album where the love triangle was the foundation of the plot, Oregairu was always a story about bunch of awkward teenagers who had hard time to deal with others but came to realize their own shortcomings during their tribulations with their club activities. It was definitely not the smoothest storytelling, especially the prom plot point being more of a forced plot device rather than a natural occurence in the narration, but the story always stayed true to its core narrative regarding Hachiman from start to finish. This is particularly true when you compare Hachiman back when he dealt with Sagami, the Ebina confession fiasco, then the genuine plea and finally this.
That's why it would have been incredibly weird to have a "grand finale" or anything like that. At best, you have an epiphany for them, which happened gradually because of their conflicting feelings and their respective situation.
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To quote the great Alto Saotome "when you choose something, you have to lose something."
I disagree, especially it doesn't make sense for the characters to go "all or nothing" when it comes to this, especially considering Yui's personality and POV. Obviously, their relationship shouldn't work the same as it was back during their club activities, but seeing them burning the bridges on the spot doesn't work at all. At best, them drifting apart over time would make more sense, but seeing immediately Yui leaving them after her monologues and wish being expose that way would be 100% out of character. If anything, it would also go against the actual conclusion of the story as a whole.
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Old 2020-09-18, 09:43   Link #128
stray
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
I disagree, especially it doesn't make sense for the characters to go "all or nothing" when it comes to this, especially considering Yui's personality and POV. Obviously, their relationship shouldn't work the same as it was back during their club activities, but seeing them burning the bridges on the spot doesn't work at all. At best, them drifting apart over time would make more sense, but seeing immediately Yui leaving them after her monologues and wish being expose that way would be 100% out of character. If anything, it would also go against the actual conclusion of the story as a whole.
I mean... the girl has been holding back tears and/or sobbing all season long. To have her just be A-OK now just kind of squanders any humanity built up in her character in favor of what's expedient for the mains. Its also pretty archetypical for a series that circlejerks so much about what's "genuine" and what's not. And Yui seems to be the only one who comprehended the difficulty inherent to keeping the 'trio' together with romance involved.

I don't really have a horse in the race; I'm pretty casual about Oregairu and best girl is obviously sensei (that opening killed me, BTW) but I just see leaving Yui in the lurch as bad writing.
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Old 2020-09-18, 10:36   Link #129
Klashikari
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The thing is that contrary to the usual setup, it is Yui herself who wants to keep the statu quo, whereas Hachiman and Yukino basically nailed the fact their relationship when they had club activities is over.
This episode pretty much points out she is fully aware there is no turning back, but that doesn't mean they cannot have another relationship where limits are finally well defined. While I believe the narrative went a bit too melodramatic about it, the trio already acknowledge the service club is no more, which includes the way how they interacted with each other.

I'd argue it would be bad writing only if Yui act as if Hachiman wasn't going out with Yukino and insist that all of them act as if nothing happened.
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Old 2020-09-18, 11:26   Link #130
stray
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
I'd argue it would be bad writing only if Yui act as if Hachiman wasn't going out with Yukino and insist that all of them act as if nothing happened.
I think you're misinterpreting my point; what I'm saying is that it is 8man who is acting like nothing is going to really going change with Yui... and IMO if nothing actually does change it would be an insane cop out given that we've had an entire season of how hard this is on her. Like what was even the point? Tragedy porn?
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Old 2020-09-18, 12:42   Link #131
Klashikari
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Your point was vastly about Yui, hence why I was mostly pointing our her behaviour thus far. On the flipside, that issue isn't really on Hachiman though. He never gave her mixed signals about a possible romance with her, nor did he try to appeal her past their friendship.
I don't see why Hachiman shouldn't act the way he always did unless Yui actually do something too. Everything thus far was a communication issue where Hachiman had hard time to convey his feelings, but never displayed any disingenuous attitude regarding that, hence why Yui knew for a long time he was already in love with Yukino. Unlike towards Yukino, he doesn't have to express his feelings towards Yui again, because they were pretty much the way they are now. This is the very reason why Hachiman told Yui that "she doesn't have to wait for him to express his feelings better", which ultimately confirmed Yui's suspicions, thus her reaction after they part ways.

From Hachiman's POV, he doesn't really have to change anything because their relationship is fine as it is. It is actually depending on how Yui reacts after Hachiman actually goes out with Yukino, and if she still wants to hang out with them in such circumstances. Hence why I believe there is no reason for a "all or nothing" when it comes to the trio's relationship as of now.
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Old 2020-09-18, 13:25   Link #132
stray
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Originally Posted by Klashikari View Post
Your point was vastly about Yui, hence why I was mostly pointing our her behaviour thus far. On the flipside, that issue isn't really on Hachiman though. He never gave her mixed signals about a possible romance with her, nor did he try to appeal her past their friendship.
I bring it up because Hachi explicitly told Yukinon that confessing is (in line with) what Yui wants without even a remote comprehension of what Yui has actually been going through. The only thing I'm necessarily pinning on him is naivete, which I could put on Yui as well.

I don't really understand what your point is otherwise. I'm not asking for 8 to reciprocate; I'm hoping for Yui to distance herself from them both for her own sanity.
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Old 2020-09-18, 13:59   Link #133
Klashikari
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And that's the very reason why I mentioned Yui's characterization in the first place in post #129. The fact Hachiman was fine the way it is doesn't remotely have anything to do with the way how she is supposed to "cope" with the situation at hand.
You can't really expect Yui to suddenly put distance between them when she actually put her friendship with Yukino as much as her love for Hachiman (which would not be affected regardless how Hachiman would respond to her). That's the very reason why I don't see her burning the bridge just like that and why there is no clear cut answer unlike your expectations of a all or nothing deal.

Also, bear in mind that Hachiman doesn't know Yui's feelings whatsoever, nor the fact she was suffering from it. He simply cannot grasp her feelings because she never really conveyed hers properly either.
As such, it isn't really about naivete here, but mostly the very same problem that plagued Hachiman and Yukino's relationship "transition".
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Old 2020-09-18, 14:14   Link #134
stray
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You can't really expect Yui to suddenly put distance between them when she actually put her friendship with Yukino as much as her love for Hachiman (which would not be affected regardless how Hachiman would respond to her). That's the very reason why I don't see her burning the bridge just like that and why there is no clear cut answer unlike your expectations of a all or nothing deal.
...except for THE ENTIRE fucking SEASON we just watched of her trying to cope and/or let go and it just not happening. Having her magically turn the corner now just reeks of contrivance regardless of her character being bubbly and genki. Its also pretty typical of shittier love triangles, which makes me hope it doesn't happen regardless of the story beats.

She needs a real conclusion to her arc. I don't know what else I can say on the subject.
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Old 2020-09-18, 14:44   Link #135
Klashikari
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Here is the catch: she finally knows both Hachiman and Yukino's feelings quite clearly now. Beyond that, Hachiman blatantly stated what he is intending to do with Yukino, which means unlike the start of the season, their relationship is much clearer for both, so there isn't any weird situation that both love each other but it won't work out because of their respective incertainties, which is why Yui threw a curve ball and almost convinced Yukino that they should stay that way back at the end of S2 before Hachiman finally admitted he wanted something genuine.
That's the very reason why that discussion at the park is very important for Yui's characterization because from now on, the trio's relationship back during their club activities is effectively over. There is no turning back to their weird statu quo with Hachiman and Yukino's hedgehog dilemna while Yui is helplessly torn between her feelings and her wish. Even if Hachiman said he will treat her like usual, the context and the circumstances of his behaviour aren't murky anymore, hence why Yui's reactions during that scene.

The whole season was a grind for her exactly because the trio's relationship was spiraling without going anywhere, effectively forcing Haruno to aggressively lie to Hachiman which also put a lot of pressure on Yui with that codependency pretense. Now that everything is clear cut, she can finally let it out and move on, which is illustrated without much subtlety with her mom. To me, her conclusion was already established with the talk at the park until that scene.
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Old 2020-09-18, 15:24   Link #136
stray
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You might be right but that still strikes me as bad writing. Not that I think Oregairu is a modern masterpiece or anything but I'm a sucker for a love triangle even if it does turn out to be a dumpster fire. Also, I don't at all believe that 8 is oblivious to Yui's feelings, and Yui was literally one breath away from confessing at the park, which makes it even harder for me to believe that she's going to be capable of joining the cheering section in short order.

Tangentially Oregairu is one of the rare cases where I was vaguely hoping for a friendship end (best girl sensei notwithstanding) because I honestly can't see 8man with either girl long term.
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Old 2020-09-18, 16:33   Link #137
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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Very good episode. 8-man (& Yukino) went to the next level by tackling a seemingly-impossible case and also finally solved their relationship. If Yuki can do this more-difficult prom well, there's no doubt that Yuki-Mom will think even highly of her management skills.

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...except for THE ENTIRE fucking SEASON we just watched of her trying to cope and/or let go and it just not happening. Having her magically turn the corner now just reeks of contrivance regardless of her character being bubbly and genki. Its also pretty typical of shittier love triangles, which makes me hope it doesn't happen regardless of the story beats. You might be right but that still strikes me as bad writing. Not that I think Oregairu is a modern masterpiece or anything but I'm a sucker for a love triangle even if it does turn out to be a dumpster fire. Also, I don't at all believe that 8 is oblivious to Yui's feelings, and Yui was literally one breath away from confessing at the park, which makes it even harder for me to believe that she's going to be capable of joining the cheering section in short order.

She needs a real conclusion to her arc. I don't know what else I can say on the subject.
I can easily turn your argument around by saying that since Yui has the entire season to cope and let go (which capped off in her bawling her eyes out in her mother's embrace), it won't be a contrivance if she turns the corner in the next episode. And given that she never confessed to Hachiman (coz she already knew the obvious answer) it will greatly reduce the awkwardness between her and Yuki-Hatchi. It's not magical. It's realistic considering what happened to Yui's "love life" also happened to a bajillion of people IRL. Thus, it's not bad writing.

Yui already has a proper closure to her feelings this episode.

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Originally Posted by stray View Post
Tangentially Oregairu is one of the rare cases where I was vaguely hoping for a friendship end (best girl sensei notwithstanding) because I honestly can't see 8man with either girl long term.
It's the opposite for me. I feel like 8-man can really have a long-lasting partnership with either Yui or Yuki if he really feels strongly about his feelings. Both of them already accepted him for what he is and vice versa. They have good chemistry with each other, and even their family members have been exposed to him and he left a good impression on them. Sure, the Yukinoshita family will be a much tougher nut to crack if Hachiman enters their household, but hey, that's life. Long-lasting relationship & marriage are never easy. They only last long mostly due to the persistence of both parties, especially in non-arranged marriages.

And speaking of Yukino & Yukinoshita family, she fits most of 8-man's bride criteria that he wanted back in season 1: They're rich and Yukino will be the one wearing pants in the family. Heck, they'd probably allow him to be a house-husband (with occasional cases for him to solve) like what he always dream of being .
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Old 2020-09-18, 17:25   Link #138
stray
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It's not magical. It's realistic considering what happened to Yui's "love life" also happened to a bajillion of people IRL. Thus, it's not bad writing.
IRL how many people would actually stay besties in that situation?

Anyway Yui is still owed a wish so I'm curious what comes of that.
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Old 2020-09-18, 17:44   Link #139
Obelisk ze Tormentor
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IRL how many people would actually stay besties in that situation?
Plenty. Including examples from my extended family & friends. Girls can mostly remain friends if there's no "back-stabbing" in the love-triangle (or love-polygon, in few cases) until the lad choose his preferred lass. And like I said above, if there's no love confession from the girls until the guy pick his girl, it will greatly reduce the awkwardness. Bonus point if the losing girl is an easygoing person.
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Old 2020-09-18, 18:47   Link #140
stray
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Plenty.
I said besties and you seem to be talking about fairly casual relationships. But regardless there's already some distance between Yui and Yukino and I don't really expect Hachi's move is going to bridge that gap. And I don't doubt that they can remain friends -- on some level -- but again Yui was one breath from making her move and now she's a third wheel. No matter what it will never be the same as it was when/if the three of them hang out together.
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