Code Geass - Spoilers & Speculation (old)

[ccardoso]

This morning, when I got up, I thinked of something so obvious I'm ashamed I didn't think of it before: if CC can talk with Marianne why doesn't she ask her who killed her and then referring it to Lelouch? It would be much faster than trying to take down Britannia of course. Is it a plot device? It seems too idiot to be one and this isn't Gundam Seed: the writers shows us some balls unlike the ones of the latter show. It isn't like CC is hiding from Lelouch the fact she can talk with his mother against Marianne's will because CC and Marianne seem to be in good terms: I don't think she will be happy if CC was manipulating Lelouch into becoming a devil if she didn't agree on making Lelouch walking the "path of carnage". There are thicker and thicker shadows on Marianne's figure: she isn't the innocent and pure mother we've always thought of her to be. Given that she's dead of course...

[Juvyniled]

That's assuming she knows or saw who shot her.

The better question to ask is, why doesn't C.C. tell Lelouch these things?

And yeah... it's seemingly probable that Marianne's character had ulterior motives in all of this as well.

[citrinitas668]

Maybe C.C. doesn't tell Lulu these things because he's never asked.

[zalem]

Considering C.C. has her own agenda in all this I wouldn't expect her to do something like that. She's never been all that forthcoming with information to begin with.

[ccardoso]

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

That's assuming she knows or saw who shot her.

The better question to ask is, why doesn't C.C. tell Lelouch these things?

And yeah... it's seemingly probable that Marianne's character had ulterior motives in all of this as well.

Well anyone who shot her was known by Marianne but not by Nunally and he/she didn't care about Nunally as well, otherwise it wouldn't be so difficult for the killer to shot Nunally in her head just to make her shut up for good. It really doesn't make sense that a member of the royal family takes the risk to kill one of the wives of the emperor only to let a witness, her daughter even, to live and being a costant danger. Marianne's death seems more a sacrifice (or simulation...) to make Lelouch walking the carnage path rather than an assassination.

Originally Posted by citrinitas668

Maybe C.C. doesn't tell Lulu these things because he's never asked.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Guys... Whoever shot her fired several rounds through the window, right? So it's possible that nobody could see who did it.

ALSO, the ones who killed her, probably aren't the masterminds themselves, which is what Lelouch is after.

[Juvyniled]

Because they could very well assume that the children won't know as much as their mother. Unless someone knows something, I don't believe anyone can confirm whether Nunnally was a target or not. Sure, Lelouch and Nunnally could grow up and possibly decide to probe into the matter... but if the identity of the killer is very obscure, then they should very well believe they are safe from being discovered. Cornelia can't even figure it out (so far Cornelia seems to be a very straightforward character and I have no reason to believe she is hiding anything... unless the answer to the mystery is something might cause a problem for her).

But if the identity is very obscure, then the suspect could very likely fall under the category of someone very very close to them, aka their father the Emperor. It's all speculation.

[ccardoso]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Guys... Whoever shot her fired several rounds through the window, right? So it's possible that nobody could see who did it.

ALSO, the ones who killed her, probably aren't the masterminds themselves, which is what Lelouch is after.

Where is it stated that the bullets came from the windows?!?

Originally Posted by Juvyniled

But if the identity is very obscure, then the suspect could very likely fall under the category of someone very very close to them, aka their father the Emperor. It's all speculation.

Keeping Marianne's children alive is a risk anyway: Nunally can identify the material killers, while Lelouch can track down the master mind. If the killers are from within the royal family (the most rated hypotesis) then it would be much more efficient to kill any witnesses, in particular Marianne's children since they're the ones who may seek revenge in the future. Anyway why weren't they attacked when Lelouch was home too? If Marianne was attacked because her children, Lelouch in particular, was becoming a dangerous candidate for the throne then he should have been the first target of the assassination attempt. Instead he's the only unscratched one and that event was the beginning of the "carnage path" he would have taken seven years later. It sounds like that event was made only to make Lelouch seeking revenge and walking the carnage path: the Emperor knowing all about Lelouch and Zero combined with CC talking to Marianne point to the fact that Lelouch is walking the path enstabilished for him by his dear father and his dear mother.

As an aside: Marianne was referred to as the "best Britannia's pilot". To have a status like that do you have any idea how many enemies you have to take down? Marianne isn't the sweet housewife we tend to think of watching pictures of her with her children.

[quina]

Originally Posted by citrinitas668

Maybe C.C. doesn't tell Lulu these things because he's never asked.

Please check page 86.
The spoiler translated by aohige suggests that Lulu and CC actually know each others wishes. However the story never tells you (just like they never tell us her name).

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by ccardoso

Where is it stated that the bullets came from the windows?!?

Y-You're kidding right? Heheheee... Wait, you're not?

Then watch episode 3 again where he talked to Clovis about his mother getting killed. Notice the rain of bullets firing into the building from the windows?

In that situation, nobody could see who were the ones doing the shooting. His mother was shot from behind protecting Nanally.

Good try though, but work on the punch line...

[ccardoso]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Y-You're kidding right? Heheheee... Wait, you're not?

Then watch episode 3 again where he talked to Clovis about his mother getting killed. Notice the rain of bullets firing into the building from the windows?

In that situation, nobody could see who were the ones doing the shooting. His mother was shot from behind protecting Nanally.

Good try though, but work on the punch line...

I don't have that episode at hand now (hard disk isn't limitless ) anyway if you say so then it's like that as I haven't any reason to doubt your word. This doesn't change the fact that Marianne should have reasonable suspects on who did this, much better than anyone, that's pretty obvious. I mean she could give Lelouch decisive hints about who is guilty, but instead she make him walking the carnage path through CC.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by ccardoso

I don't have that episode at hand now (hard disk isn't limitless ) anyway if you say so then it's like that as I haven't any reason to doubt your word. This doesn't change the fact that Marianne should have reasonable suspects on who did this, much better than anyone, that's pretty obvious.

Sorry about that last one, was abit twitchy...

If Marianne's quite the "best Britannia's pilot" and does have alot of enemies, how would she know which one did this?

Okay, if she only has a few enemies capable of attacking her on imperial grounds,she can't just guess which one of the nobles did it...

...What if she got it wrong?

[ccardoso]

Originally Posted by Chaos2Frozen

Sorry about that last one, was abit twitchy...

If Marianne's quite the "best Britannia's pilot" and does have alot of enemies, how would she know which one did this?

Okay, if she only has a few enemies capable of attacking her on imperial grounds,she can't just guess which one of the nobles did it...

...What if she got it wrong?

Well if you have some enemies you know who is more dangerous... and anyway if she was attacked by some other prince/princess (=>Schneizel) then there is a good probability it's about the throne succession and so it doesn't really make sense to let her children being alive, especially Lelouch. That assassinatio seem a fake or a sacrifice to drive Lelouch walking the carnage path. The emeperor commented the massacre at the stadium as "he finally did it", referring to Lelouch. The Emperor was waiting for Lelouch to do something like that so he knews he's Zero, he has Geass and he let Lelouch doing what he wants. Why? To let him evolve I guess like Marianna is doing because she talks happily with the girl which opened the carnage path to Lelouch. I wouldn't be surprised if Marianne is somewhere alive.

[Chaos2Frozen]

Originally Posted by ccardoso

Well if you have some enemies you know who is more dangerous...

Thats the problem, just because they are 'less likely to do it', or they are 'less dangerous' doesn't mean they can't do it. Likewise, just because they're 'most likely to do it', does mean that when it happens, it's automatically them who is guilty.

then there is a good probability it's about the throne succession and so it doesn't really make sense to let her children being alive, especially Lelouch.

Lelouch believes it was because of her background. You've seen Britainians, you know how they feel about those kind of things, it's not strange for it to be just a simple, stupid reason.

The Emperor was waiting for Lelouch to do something like that so he knews he's Zero, he has Geass and he let Lelouch doing what he wants. Why? To let him evolve I guess like Marianna is doing because she talks happily with the girl which opened the carnage path to Lelouch. I wouldn't be surprised if Marianne is somewhere alive.

Ah, but we don't always know the content of their conversion, for all we know she could be trying to hook her son up with C.C!

[ccardoso]

Chaos2Frozen of course all my ideas are just ideas or better known as speculation. Unless it's something directly or indirectly proven in the show all we say is speculation: anyway writers usually like to give the viewers various, often misleading, hints about the plot before the show started and the plot of possible future episodes/seasons. I think to have logical reasons why Marianne may be driving Lelouch into the carnage path, but your points to rebate mine are valid too because they're points and not evidence.

[kaeis]

Hi everyone [I have been reading this thread for a while but never posted].
Maybe when C.C. was talking to Marianne, it may be possible that she is talking to herself. Maybe her name is Marianne [coincident!]. Its just a possibility I thought off. It may seem stupid but I'm just expressing my opinion..

[Chaos2Frozen]

@ccardoso

Agreed, since this issue wasn't brought up often during the series, we lack enough information to come to any solid conclusion.

The points I've brought up were base on what I see in the different clues (Ro what seems to be clues to me) left scattered around.

You're allowed to dismiss them, but I'll still defend my theory untill otherwise =)

[mist2123]

also why Would V2 protect Lulu and Suzaku in the island?
i think in the time of geass that lulu and suzaku have some sort of fate and it will never end until one is dead and they got resurected in present time to continue the duel

[Eleutheria]

Originally Posted by kaeis

Hi everyone [I have been reading this thread for a while but never posted].
Maybe when C.C. was talking to Marianne, it may be possible that she is talking to herself. Maybe her name is Marianne [coincident!]. Its just a possibility I thought off. It may seem stupid but I'm just expressing my opinion..

That would be a great red herring, one that would piss off a lot of fans to be sure. But it would indeed be fun

[kakashi524]

Originally Posted by mist2123

also why Would V2 protect Lulu and Suzaku in the island?
i think in the time of geass that lulu and suzaku have some sort of fate and it will never end until one is dead and they got resurected in present time to continue the duel

Sounds familiar, but i can't pinpoint it.

*Cough* Harry Potter and Lord Voldemort *Cough*