(L) Bamboo Blade

[Onizuka-GTO]

just to throw oil on to the grey-moon fire,

Tama probably lost a lot of time to her father, and probably to other people, but all that has happened in her own Dojo.

To her, it was a lesson learnt, and was never considered a "lost" but merely part of her instruction.

Because she encountered or was taught to avoid those common mistakes since she was 4years old, the Tama we see today is the result of that.

So the only thing she is lacking right now is social skills.

She never ever joined a club, never had a constant group of people, so in this anime she doesn't have to "fail" on Kendo, because she will make those life teaching mistakes when not doing the sports.

I'm sure the motto "what doesn't kill you, only makes you stronger" or "Failure is a better teacher then success" is common throughout the world, and is more then ever emphasis in a lot of sports, young growing adults anime.

This anime will HAVE to incorporate this, because this is no GAR anime, where the hero/heroine just keeps getting insanely stronger and stronger, upon the mantra of "WILL OVER MATTER/SAVE THE GALAXY!" theme.

All hero/heroine hasa strong and weak side in these life growing stories.

Tama has a weakness, and this is more then obvious when she first "zoned" out with the sensei, and when she ran a-foul of the bully.

Those were mistakes, and they will only make her strong, it has nothing to do with her Kendo but her social mentality that will slowly but surely mature as she learn to adapt to a young adult to deal with modern society with friends and all the different sort of people in the world.

[Deathkillz]

It's probably better to just agree to disagree...it is no longer amusing to see arguments running in circles

But just for the record...

Originally Posted by grey_moon

Tama hasn't lost... What do you call the last match against bully girl. I seem to recall she lost!

Indeed you can't count that as a personal loss as we all know what would have happened next if ishida didn't stop her. But it does count as a personal loss and for tamaki still a valuable experience. She did wrong an understood that she let things get out of hand and that is a good lesson that is important for her. Rather being at a stand still because of her skill - we see that she can still grown as a person.

[grey_moon]

/me runs around on fire

@Onizuka-GTO - I very much agree with you on this. From what we have seen of how Tama acts, she doesn't go ga ga over winning or losing. The last match against the bully girl was all about justice. Now if people want to raise that as a lesson she needs to learn then fair enough.

When people go on about her needing to lose to learn a life lesson, I want to know the reasons why in relation to Tama and the show. Not generic how to live life by some sound bite. To me it sounds as senseless as the poo that politicians spew out.

I have to agree with you in regards to the whole it makes you stronger motto in sports shows, but scary thing is people actually practice this in real life. Instead of thinking about an individual they wield the life lessons with what they have seen on TV.

The crazy thing is people have been going on about losing so that you can emphasise with people who lose. But they are doing the exact opposite of what they preach. If you look at the way Tama behaves through out the show, she has shown none of the characteristics that you see in the normal must get knocked down to get up characters. Life lessons should be tailored for that individual, I mean it is their life at the end of the day. That is why I keep going on about point out actions of Tama's that require for her to lose to learn. I can see none. She is learning stuff she needs all the time as Onizuka-GTO quite rightly says such as social skills and having fun.

@DK - The loss actually I think was far more serious then a lot of people are thinking it is. Now everyone is concentrating on Tama's reaction to a personal loss, and if it can count as a personal loss since sensei 1 interfered.

Now why do I think this is very important to Tama's character development.... Notice before the match starts how Tama is worried about Kirino and about the team winning (notice no worrying about herself winning or losing). I wasn't too impressed with the Ishida putting even more pressure on Saya and everyone else. As Saya quite rightly said she knows Kirino better then he does oO.

After Tama's encounter with bully chan, Tama gets fired up. Now we have already been around in circles about this so I won't say rightly or wrongly. She is fired up because her sense of justice has been slap across the face by a very wet glove.

So this loss for Tama is huge, in a sense she let her team down and she let her sense of justice down. Once Kirino calmed her down, she flopped down and was back to Tama again.

Did we see any angsting? Nope

When sensei 1 confronted her did we see her repentant? Not really she was taken aback by her own intensity, but I recon that the adrenaline pumping around her was as much to blame as anything else. If Kirino wasn't there who knows what would have happened.

When her father confronted her over it, did we see her repentant? Nope she actually was the opposite thanks to our access to her thought bubbles.

The things that actually impress me most about Tama isn't her overwhelming skill. It is things like when she overcame her fear in the shop, or noticing her dad wanting a present and sacrificing her most wanted for him, or putting her father before her/clubs personal bit of glory. Now how can a Tama that acts like that benefit from getting her arse whopped I ask you?

[ReddyRedWolf]

People it isn't about winning or losing but Tama has never before faced someone of her caliber before.

Giving your all is well and good but when you realize nobody can stand up against you what's the point?

That's why Tama needs a opponent of the same age and gender as she is.

Too bad Azuma was out of the game for a while when she faced Tama.

Even Tama agrees she is good but it wasn't enough to beat her.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by ReddyRedWolf

People it isn't about winning or losing but Tama has never before faced someone of her caliber before.

Giving your all is well and good but when you realize nobody can stand up against you what's the point?

That's why Tama needs a opponent of the same age and gender as she is.

Too bad Azuma was out of the game for a while when she faced Tama.

Even Tama agrees she is good but it wasn't enough to beat her.

How about Oni's point that her dad is better then her? I don't get this whole need to fight someone your own size and age. Do you hold back a child pianist because they are younger they their opponents? If the reason why is because it is a contact sport then Tama is able to fight people who are adults fairly, so what is the big issue? Isn't this what the essence of what skill is about? It doesn't matter that she is a girl, it doesn't matter if she is young, what matters is that she is good enough to fight at a certain level. To hold her back because of ageism or sexism is kinda bad imho.

[Boohahaha]

I should just go research this if and when I have time but what are the rules in Kendo competition regarding ranks? In Tae Kwon Do tournaments, people are separated by sex gender(naturally) / weight / rank. So in other words if you are a 8th GUP then you will fight against an 8th GUP in the same weight category.

If the same rules apply in Kendo then Tama should be competing against her own rank and in a different group to her team mates.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by Boohahaha

I should just go research this if and when I have time but what are the rules in Kendo competition regarding ranks? In Tae Kwon Do tournaments, people are separated by sex gender(naturally) / weight / rank. So in other words if you are a 8th GUP then you will fight against an 8th GUP in the same weight category.

If the same rules apply in Kendo then Tama should be competing against her own rank and in a different group to her team mates.

I thought we were on about Tama's ability to grow. So are competitions that important to her growth now?

[Boohahaha]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

I thought we were on about Tama's ability to grow. So are competitions that important to her growth now?

Well only if you want to get into that area.

It is an off topic question and not related to the contentions that have been put forth for the last few pages.

My friend, I think you need a break. SERIOUSLY. Arguing against so many people 24/7 have clearly affected your judgment. Take this as part of a learning process and GROWTH

[ReddyRedWolf]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

How about Oni's point that her dad is better then her? I don't get this whole need to fight someone your own size and age. Do you hold back a child pianist because they are younger they their opponents? If the reason why is because it is a contact sport then Tama is able to fight people who are adults fairly, so what is the big issue? Isn't this what the essence of what skill is about? It doesn't matter that she is a girl, it doesn't matter if she is young, what matters is that she is good enough to fight at a certain level. To hold her back because of ageism or sexism is kinda bad imho.

You do realize this is a sport anime right?

Right

Based on the setting Tama would compete with girls her age.

Remember this is a high school competition.

Not elementary, not middle school or even university level.

Tama has already faced adults and beat them.

But that was a chore.

Ishibashi was Tama's first real challenger as a kendoka.

Even Ishibashi was hard pressed and had to go all out in the beginning to exploit the rythm of the fight.

There is certainly no guy in the club that can compete with Tama.
What guys for that matter? Dan and Yuji? Blame Kojiro for not recruiting guys in the club.

At a 100% or even less than 80% Tama can take on most competitors without a sweat.

Tamaki is a kendo genius no doubt about it.

With that Tama may very well rest her laurels.

What Tamaki needs is motivation in the sport. (For now Tama is doing it for Mom and Brave Braver not for herself.)

Iniatially her reason to join the club was to protect it from Toyama.

That motivation can only be sparked by the appearance of a Rival! (Yes a cliche anime plot. But hey even Doujin Work uses it. )

[ThoHell]

OK, I KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN THE END.......

Tama loses to Rin.
Tama explores her weakness.
Tama gets a lot of support from Yuji.
Tama becomes Blade Braver.
Tama comes back and defeats Rin.
Tama and Yuji go out.

PERIOD...that's it.

But yeah, this debate really is still going strong. Grey_moon is a one man army.....CHARGE!

Hm...think something went wrong with my hard rive formating, been stuck at 88% for like 40 minutes now.....

Originally Posted by Boohahaha

I should just go research this if and when I have time but what are the rules in Kendo competition regarding ranks? In Tae Kwon Do tournaments, people are separated by sex gender(naturally) / weight / rank. So in other words if you are a 8th GUP then you will fight against an 8th GUP in the same weight category.

If the same rules apply in Kendo then Tama should be competing against her own rank and in a different group to her team mates.

Just weird pr plain dumb how some sports still do gender separations, even if no physical contact was involved. Even high school wrestling didn't even separate into sex. Yes, I wrestled girls. At first thoughts are: "Man what happens if I loose", but once you get out there you're like who cares. Being a girl or not, you still stand as my opponent there I'm F you up. But I guess to those who are watching they would think I'm cruel of something or maybe even taking advantage of the situation and being perverted. Sometimes there would be some pretty hot girls wrestling (haven't seen one in a real match but during practice all the time). You tend to not take real concern of the position you're putting them in or where you're touching them until after it's all over, then you think: "WTF DID I JUST DO?".........Did I just got off topic?

But anyways, I believe kendo to be a mainly skill orientated sport, of course some physical strength and size do something into play, but I really believe it's mainly skill. The sex barrier should be taken down. DON'T TAKE ME THE WRONG WAY, I'm Vietnamese so I'm not dising Asians, but average Asians males don't different in body mass much from girls. Taking a guess, but kendo originated from Japan, Japenese guys have pretty feminine body structure.......... What I trying to say is the sex barrier in kendo should be removed.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by Boohahaha

Well only if you want to get into that area.

It is an off topic question and not related to the contentions that have been put forth for the last few pages.

My friend, I think you need a break. SERIOUSLY. Arguing against so many people 24/7 have clearly affected your judgment. Take this as part of a learning process and GROWTH

In what way? Has it affected my judgement so I can actually see that a dan grade kendoka shouldn't be looking to high school competitions or high school clubs for growth in their art?

Do you actually know what Ishida is up to? Its called cheating, people do it in little league baseball all the time.

Me thinks that you are the one confused trying to impose your idea of how Tama should improve just like the sensei's are trying to do. Ishida is not so much in succeeding, but at least he introduced Tama to the Kendo club, but it was Kirino who convinced her to stay and that is where she got her character growth from.

Ishida actually taught her the fine art of taking a bribe and cheating (in a way).

Right now the very serious sensei and her dad are the only ones that have been introduced with the ability to teach Tama anything in kendo. But the thing is so far the show hasn't been about her learning kendo. Just as ThoHell keeps trying to point out, it about her learning about socialising and having fun. What is so wrong with her doing that?

OMG Tama you have dirtied the high and mighty pure art of kendo by working in a shop and learning to have fun. Go and whip yourself senseless and practice with your shinai till you cough blood!

[Onizuka-GTO]

Originally Posted by ThoHell

OK, I KNOW WHAT WILL HAPPEN IN THE END.......

Tama loses to Rin.
Tama explores her weakness.
Tama gets a lot of support from Yuji.
Tama becomes Blade Braver.
Tama comes back and defeats Rin.
Tama and Yuji go out.

PERIOD...that's it.

But yeah, this debate really is still going strong. Grey_moon is a one man army.....CHARGE!

Hm...think something went wrong with my hard rive formating, been stuck at 88% for like 40 minutes now.....



Just weird pr plain dumb how some sports still do gender separations, even if no physical contact was involved. Even high school wrestling didn't even separate into sex. Yes, I wrestled girls. At first thoughts are: "Man what happens if I loose", but once you get out there you're like who cares. Being a girl or not, you still stand as my opponent there I'm F you up. But I guess to those who are watching they would think I'm cruel of something or maybe even taking advantage of the situation and being perverted. Sometimes there would be some pretty hot girls wrestling (haven't seen one in a real match but during practice all the time). You tend to not take real concern of the position you're putting them in or where you're touching them until after it's all over, then you think: "WTF DID I JUST DO?".........Did I just got off topic?

But anyways, I believe kendo to be a mainly skill orientated sport, of course some physical strength and size do something into play, but I really believe it's mainly skill. The sex barrier should be taken down. DON'T TAKE ME THE WRONG WAY, I'm Vietnamese so I'm not dising Asians, but average Asians males don't different in body mass much from girls. Taking a guess, but kendo originated from Japan, Japenese guys have pretty feminine body structure.......... What I trying to say is the sex barrier in kendo should be removed.

i disagree, women should be separate from men in contact sports.

If only to stop them from dominating us in the last of man pride we have left.

You start letting opposite gender wrestle the average anime otaku/fuyoshi it will resemble the Red Sea and the Blood Donation service will be all over the place like mosquitoes to a banquet.

Men/women will be dropping everywhere, it'll be a massacre.

Don't open pandora's box...DON'T.





But seriously i don't mind, as long i don't get accused of sexual harrasments.

sheesh, can't do anything about it...im healthy!

you try wrestling nubile females with tight nylon shorts....

*wipes his bloody nose/from active imagination*

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by Onizuka-GTO

i disagree, women should be separate from men in contact sports.

If only to stop them from dominating us in the last of man pride we have left.

You start letting opposite gender wrestle the average anime otaku/fuyoshi it will resemble the Red Sea and the Blood Donation service will be all over the place like mosquitoes to a banquet.

Men/women will be dropping everywhere, it'll be a massacre.

Don't open pandora's box...DON'T.





But seriously i don't mind, as long i don't get accused of sexual harrasments.

sheesh, can't do anything about it...im healthy!

you try wrestling nubile females with tight nylon shorts....

*wipes his bloody nose/from active imagination*

LOL

Ref: Fight on
Me: crotched over hiding a bulge below the belt
Coach: throws in the towel and thwaps me for being a pervert

But on a more serious note, I've fought with women in semi contact in TKD and Lau Gar and there is no such thing as sex on the mat.

Also if it comes to training my sensei's forced us to fight against people of differing sizes and weight. Makes sense really, a mugger in the street isn't going to say let you off coz you are different sex or smaller then they are

[Boohahaha]

Originally Posted by grey_moon

In what way? Has it affected my judgement so I can actually see that a dan grade kendoka shouldn't be looking to high school competitions or high school clubs for growth in their art?

Do you actually know what Ishida is up to? Its called cheating, people do it in little league baseball all the time.

Me thinks that you are the one confused trying to impose your idea of how Tama should improve just like the sensei's are trying to do. Ishida is not so much in succeeding, but at least he introduced Tama to the Kendo club, but it was Kirino who convinced her to stay and that is where she got her character growth from.

Ishida actually taught her the fine art of taking a bribe and cheating (in a way).

Right now the very serious sensei and her dad are the only ones that have been introduced with the ability to teach Tama anything in kendo. But the thing is so far the show hasn't been about her learning kendo. Just as ThoHell keeps trying to point out, it about her learning about socialising and having fun. What is so wrong with her doing that?

OMG Tama you have dirtied the high and mighty pure art of kendo by working in a shop and learning to have fun. Go and whip yourself senseless and practice with your shinai till you cough blood!

Oh dear oh dear, why have you just re-in forced what I mentioned in my previous post about you taking a rest? At least Thohell knew what my post was about and attempted to answer my question with a degree of logic.

Anyway, in the case of females competiting with males in sports? My answer is.. NO. It is simple, Males simply overpower females the majority of the time. Tennis, Soccer, Basketball, Golf, Badminton, Table Tennis, Volleyball, Hockey..etc. If you have played golf you will know what I mean, and you only have to look at Michelle Wie to see the evidence. It is not disrespecting females, but rather respecting the differences to bring about fairness.

[ThoHell]

Originally Posted by Boohahaha

Oh dear oh dear, why have you just re-in forced what I mentioned in my previous post about you taking a rest? At least Thohell knew what my post was about and attempted to answer my question with a degree of logic.

Anyway, in the case of females competiting with males in sports? My answer is.. NO. It is simple, Males simply overpower females the majority of the time. Tennis, Soccer, Basketball, Golf, Badminton, Table Tennis, Volleyball, Hockey..etc. If you have played golf you will know what I mean, and you only have to look at Michelle Wie to see the evidence. It is not disrespecting females, but rather respecting the differences to bring about fairness.

This truly depends on the person for which this implication implies to. Each competitor is different and have different goals. Some compete for money, for fame, or to be the best. There are many female competitors who do better than their counter part, but of course this ratio is low.

Some may take such a realization of fairness as a sign of sexism/disrespect/ etc. What I'm trying to get at is that the boundaries shouldn't be so well defined. There is should be flexibility. Women should be allowed to compete against men if they truly wanted to. Some might say what about the men, can't they switch from men only to the women only? I guess if you go in one direction there has to be an opposite direction, but if a man really did that, criticism would fall upon him with infinite flow.

Anyways, main point. I feel women should be allowed to compete against men. If not all throughout season at least at some tournaments and competitions.

This question is a little off point but I'm curious to how some people would answer it: If a girl hits/fights you like a man, what would you do?

[Kang Seung Jae]

Originally Posted by ThoHell

This question is a little off point but I'm curious to how some people would answer it: If a girl hits/fights you like a man, what would you do?

In what situation? Sports or life and death?

[Mentar]

There's only one word to be said about Ep19:

Spoiler:

"FUZAKENNAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!"

*lollinger*

Dan the Man!

[ThoHell]

Originally Posted by Kang Seung Jae

In what situation? Sports or life and death?

Hm...I was hoping for it to imply to both, but I guess some people are different outside the ring then when they're in one. Lets say non-sports.

[Kang Seung Jae]

Originally Posted by ThoHell

Hm...I was hoping for it to imply to both, but I guess some people are different outside the ring then when they're in one. Lets say non-sports.

If it's non-sports, I don't give a damn if my opponent is a male, female, human or animal; I go all out.

[grey_moon]

Originally Posted by Boohahaha

Oh dear oh dear, why have you just re-in forced what I mentioned in my previous post about you taking a rest? At least Thohell knew what my post was about and attempted to answer my question with a degree of logic.

You what? You really thank that there is no logic in not expecting for Tama to not find any good challengers in a high school club or competition? Logically I would have thought you would have at least mentioned she could have gained skill and insight by being able to experience competitions which she may not yet have tried (since that seems to be her first award), or gain skills in teaching her fellow students.

Originally Posted by Boohahaha

Anyway, in the case of females competiting with males in sports? My answer is.. NO. It is simple, Males simply overpower females the majority of the time. Tennis, Soccer, Basketball, Golf, Badminton, Table Tennis, Volleyball, Hockey..etc. If you have played golf you will know what I mean, and you only have to look at Michelle Wie to see the evidence. It is not disrespecting females, but rather respecting the differences to bring about fairness.

Isn't this dependant on the sport? Some sports strength is more important, take golf for example. Others like fencing speed and skill is far more important. I guess basically if we take this to bamboo blade, do you think that kendo is a sport of brute strength, a sport of skill, or a balance between the two that still dictates that men should be separated from women?

@ThoHell - Outside the ring I would take down and control. If I need to take it any further I would warn a few times and incapacitate. That is man or woman. Inside the ring I would also not discriminate, it is kinda disrespectful and if I wasn't prepared to fight them I would have left the club or competition.

@Boohahaha - You might be confused in thinking that I was just responding to you only, but I was also responding to ReddyRedWolf. I guessed I could have quoted better, but hey I would have thought you being so witty and logical you would have spotted that