Sword Art Online II - Episode 13 Discussion / Poll

[Krono]

Originally Posted by chaos_alfa

If that was the case why was he moving his hand under her shirt?

My guess would be unobstructed access to near her heart for the injection to kill her as quickly and painless as possible. His goal is to stop her heart and lungs long enough to kill her. Sticking her in the leg would either prolong things, or result in outright failure depending on the medication. He's also using a needless syringe. It'd be quite problematic for him if he only has the one, attempts to inject her with it, only to discover that a bra strap was in the way and prevented her from receiving any of the medication.

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by dotdotslash

I don't mind the fact that the threat of rape is used as a plot device, although it does feel a bit anti-climatic to introduce it after the threat of murder by DG's crew has been hanging in the air for so long.

It's not like the threat was downgraded from murder to rape. It went from murder to rape followed by murder-suicide.

[Rising Dragon]

Essentially, infatuation made a bad situation that much more worse.

[XFire]

Wow, the Kirito/Death Gun fight was great. Nice to see someone actually push him to the limit for once.

Also, this episode really defined Kirito and Sinon's relationship for me. She saves his ass in the Death Gun fight with her Phantom Bullet, and he saves her from Crayd*cough*Shinkawa with FALCON KNEE (I laughed so hard at Shinkawa's face after he gets hit)

[BassGSnewtype]

Well, if you're gonna tie with someone you might as well do it with a bang. XD

[Farodin]

Lol.This is probably the most adorable suicide (if such thing would exist) I've ever seen.That smile on Sinons face says it all .

[Jan-Poo]

Regarding the issue of the "damsel in distress", perhaps I'm wrong, but I have the feeling that many people are forgetting that SAO in the beginning was a series that often reversed the stereotypical male-female roles.

For example in SAO there is a point where the "damsel in distress" is actually Kirito and the one who saves him at the last moment from certain death is Asuna.

Another reversal happens during the "happy family arc". The trope dictates that when an evil monster appears in front of the happy family, the man will tell the woman to protect the kids while he courageously confronts the monster.
In SAO the opposite happens. Asuna tells Kirito to protect Yui while she defeats the monster.

I actually appreciated SAO for that, it was refreshing. Unfortunately it all fell into the gutter with ALO, and GGO isn't changing it that much. Sinon isn't a weak woman but ultimately she is overshadowed in everything by the male lead.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Regarding the issue of the "damsel in distress", perhaps I'm wrong, but I have the feeling that many people are forgetting that SAO in the beginning was a series that often reversed the stereotypical male-female roles.

For example in SAO there is a point where the "damsel in distress" is actually Kirito and the one who saves him at the last moment from certain death is Asuna.

Another reversal happens during the "happy family arc". The trope dictates that when an evil monster appears in front of the happy family, the man will tell the woman to protect the kids while he courageously confronts the monster.
In SAO the opposite happens. Asuna tells Kirito to protect Yui while she defeats the monster.

I actually appreciated SAO for that, it was refreshing. Unfortunately it all fell into the gutter with ALO, and GGO isn't changing it that much. Sinon isn't a weak woman but ultimately she is overshadowed in everything by the male lead.

ALO originally wasn't as bad as in the anime, but Suguha is no Asuna. However, that part of it always made sense to me. Suguha and Sinon should be less capable than Asuna and Kirito. Suguha is a normal girl, and Sinon had that one traumatic experience. Asuna and Kirito spent two years fighting for their lives in a death game. If anything, the fact that Sinon stands on the same level as they do makes her even more badass.

[Maxtro]

Ugh, Sinon's friend being the bad guy, killer and potential rapist just seems so forced.

"Oh, I'm the brother of the guy that was in Laughing Coffin"

It just looks like the author was looking for another way to screw over Sinon and have Kirito save her.

It was a connection that didn't need to be made.

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Maxtro

Ugh, Sinon's friend being the bad guy, killer and potential rapist just seems so forced.

"Oh, I'm the brother of the guy that was in Laughing Coffin"

It just looks like the author was looking for another way to screw over Sinon and have Kirito save her.

It was a connection that didn't need to be made.

*squints*

Really? How did you not see this from the first time this guy showed up? I mean, he had creep written all over him from his behavior around Sinon IRL, and his first reaction to Kirito was "Hey, let's go PK him and steal all his stuff so he'll leave you alone forever"

[Gravitas Free Zone]

Plus the attempted glomp at the swing set, which didn't give off the feeling of a friendzoned character getting the hint.

Going by Conservation of Detail (TVTropes) and there being a tiny number of named characters with dialogue, Kyouji was at minimum in the "potential problem" camp (or in a series with any complexity, a potential red herring) due to his spurned-love-interest and disappointed-gamer angles that weren't balanced out by other positive factors.

[Rising Dragon]

And the rest of what we know about him is properly foreshadowed. He has medical knowledge, and has plenty of access to medical supplies. He's aware of Shino's past traumas, and got her into the game in the first place. And finally, there was the reveal that "Sterben" isn't just a word meaning death, but a medical term.

[kukuru]

Originally Posted by Maxtro

Ugh, Sinon's friend being the bad guy, killer and potential rapist just seems so forced.

"Oh, I'm the brother of the guy that was in Laughing Coffin"

It just looks like the author was looking for another way to screw over Sinon and have Kirito save her.

It was a connection that didn't need to be made.

I don't know why people are trying to get avant-garde on this topic. Is it because the comments come from younger generation, or just to the point where arm chairing a script is the way forums work?

Let's face it, the story works, much in how classic stories are told. Everything comes together, and wraps up nicely like a glove that fits the killer's hands. A timely confrontation, a dramatic last minute reversal.

And the rape angle...really? Why wouldn't it be rape.. I don't know where people would not see rape...why only a high high majority of male to female assault is rape or some kind of sexual abuse, and when it comes to serial killings, extra extra high, almost certainly sexual assault.

Heck it practically scientific that males associate violence, killings, etc with sexual release due to how the bran chemistry happens. So if you have one, you are very very likely to have the other.

So really...what are people trying to ask here? To write something that is more implausible fantasy then implausible fantasy?

If you want a story that is passed around by a few critics and be shown at the local film festival, sure go high-brow on it. But when you're writing something that's to be enjoyed...stick with the forumla please.

[eiyuuou]

Originally Posted by Jan-Poo

Regarding the issue of the "damsel in distress", perhaps I'm wrong, but I have the feeling that many people are forgetting that SAO in the beginning was a series that often reversed the stereotypical male-female roles.

For example in SAO there is a point where the "damsel in distress" is actually Kirito and the one who saves him at the last moment from certain death is Asuna.

Another reversal happens during the "happy family arc". The trope dictates that when an evil monster appears in front of the happy family, the man will tell the woman to protect the kids while he courageously confronts the monster.
In SAO the opposite happens. Asuna tells Kirito to protect Yui while she defeats the monster.

I actually appreciated SAO for that, it was refreshing. Unfortunately it all fell into the gutter with ALO, and GGO isn't changing it that much. Sinon isn't a weak woman but ultimately she is overshadowed in everything by the male lead.

How is Kirito a damsel in distress?

Spoiler:

If Godfrey prepared all the rations he given to Kirito, Kirito wouldn't be paralyzed.
If dumbfrey did not confiscate his crystals, Kirito could use antidote instead of being completely helpless and dumbfrey died on him.
If Kirito wasn't suddenly forced to join dumbfrey's party, the entire situation would not have happened.
With friends like dumbfrey, who needs enemies? The trope that is more applicable is the death flag trope. Most people will see it coming once they saw Kuradeel.

All it took is a single crystal for Kirito to reverse the situation against Kuradeel's sinister ploy and reverse save Asuna.

How does the happy family arc remotely resembles damsel in distress trope?

Spoiler:

Kirito stood in front of ???, which is equivalent to floor 90s bosses, while Asuna told Yulier to bring Yui to the safe zone before godmode Yui came out to slay the boss.

I think you're forgetting about SAO instead.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by eiyuuou

How is Kirito a damsel in distress?

Spoiler:

If Godfrey prepared all the rations he given to Kirito, Kirito wouldn't be paralyzed.
If dumbfrey did not confiscate his crystals, Kirito could use antidote instead of being completely helpless and dumbfrey died on him.
If Kirito wasn't suddenly forced to join dumbfrey's party, the entire situation would not have happened.
With friends like dumbfrey, who needs enemies? The trope that is more applicable is the death flag trope. Most people will see it coming once they saw Kuradeel.

All it took is a single crystal for Kirito to reverse the situation against Kuradeel's sinister ploy and reverse save Asuna.

I don't see your point. Nothing of that changes the fact that Kirito was helpless and that he would have died if Asuna didn't save him.
If all of the above happened to a female MC nobody would question that they made her a damsel in distress.

Originally Posted by eiyuuou

How does the happy family arc remotely resembles damsel in distress trope?

I does not, I didn't say that. I said that it reverses the stereotypical female-male roles in narratives, which are not limited to the "damsel in distress" trope.