2010-08-26, 18:54 | Link #921 | |||
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But well another explanation is that they covered the story up. Quote:
As you well explained even if you gather 900 tons of munitions all in the same places you don't really get a good result. Of course this story is hardly credibly for me. This was supposed to be a secret base for kaiten torpedoes. Apparently you'd need several hundreds of them in order to obtain the 900 tons of explosive, there weren't even produced that many. In addition this was a base no longer considered strategically relevant, the project was abandoned. Why there would be so many kaiten? That doesn't make much sense. It even make less sense if the 900 tons of explosive were brought there as pure explosive by the japanese government. Exactly for which purpose such a huge amount of explosive was brought there? And why would it be still there once the base was practically abandoned? Finally, how could they forget such a huge amount of explosive or missiles or ammunitions were still there? And I have more The base was located on the kuwadorian side, so obviously the 900 tons of explosive had to be moved from the base to the other side of the island. There's no way Kinzo did that all alone, there's no way that could be done with a few people. And then what about the clock mechanism? Did Kinzo created it by himself? How many people were involved in this 900 tons bomb? Now if this is true, nothing deserves a "I can't put it past Kinzo" more than this one. for what concerns the shockwave. It's true, if an explosion of that kind happened, the shockwave should have razed the Kuwadorian or at the very least badly damaged it. The only explanation I can find is that there is a hill or a high elevation just in the proximity of the Kuwadorian exactly as it is shown in the map made by Deen. In that case the Kuwadorian should be protected enough. Quote:
Rather, I find extremely strange that Kyrie aimed at the head instead of the body. If she aimed at the head then it's not that strange that she missed, she should have known that.
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2010-08-26, 19:19 | Link #922 | ||
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So I expect the "forgotten wartime munitions" story is actually the coverup for the real reason the bomb was there -- at least this way, the people responsible are simply not on the job anymore.
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2010-08-26, 19:45 | Link #923 | |
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Another explanation is that the explosive was used to create the underground tunnel. however 900tons are enough to blow half of the island, so there's no way there was such a huge leftover. I also thought about the possibility that the explosive was inside the submarine. but yet again it's impossible and preposterous that they brought such a huge amount. Could an italian submarine of that time even carry 900tons?
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2010-08-26, 20:16 | Link #924 | |
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Italian R-class cargo submarines were limited to 600 tons at most. Maximum they were actually loaded to was about 250 tons, it appears. German cargo submarines have the top cargo capacity listed at 700 tons, though they did run full much of the time. German Type XIV were equipped for field resupply, so while they had cargo space, most of it was for liquid fuel -- 400 tons of fuel and four torpedoes. USSR WWII submarine cargo operations were conducted with regular submarines which never exceeded 95 tons per run, and they stuffed supplies everywhere including the torpedo tubes to do it too, no purpose-built cargo submarines were made. USA and UK apparently never used submarines for this in any serious way. 900 tons of a TNT-derived explosive takes a bloody lot of space too, 1.5 tons per cubic meter or so. EDIT: That's something like a 8.5-meter tall cube.
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2010-08-26, 20:18 | Link #925 |
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A friend who just finished episode 7 developed a theory that the reason Kanon thinks he can't be loved is because of Dine's 3rd and that he is the true Battler while the Battler we know of is Shannon, making Kanon the true detective. After all as hinted in episode 6, there is no rule about detectives not being killed.
Can't say I heard that one before. Or agree with it. Or...I don't know. I'm kinda just saying "...huh" while thinking about how many holes that theory has. |
2010-08-26, 20:25 | Link #926 | |
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But that someone has to be the Other Battler and that it's been conspicuously ignored is a fact. And the idea that some characters may think they can't be loved because of Dine rules is refreshingly novel.
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2010-08-26, 20:27 | Link #927 | |
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btw the 10tons of gold certainly wouldn't vaporize in the explosion. Shouldn't the whole area around the island covered with gold shards?
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2010-08-26, 20:40 | Link #928 | |
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2010-08-27, 00:15 | Link #929 | |
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And say what you want about Rudolph being a bastard, but I don't think he was cold enough to have knowingly abandoned or killed his own child just to get Kyrie off his back. He's someone who possesses a lot of love, hence his philandering, but he has never been shown to be ruthless outside of the Episode 7 Tea Party. Kyrie would not have given up on her child unless it truly was stillborn. She's driven and was at the time desperate enough to not give up unless there was "absolute certainty" of that hope being extinguished. Rudolph knowingly abandoning his baby son, or even outright killing it for the sake of getting out of having to raise it, is completely out of character for Rudolph. The baby from 19 years ago that was thrown off the cliff has been more or less outright stated to be Yasu. "Other Battler" was stillborn from Asumu. There is no need for him to exist on the game board. |
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2010-08-27, 00:36 | Link #930 |
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I wonder what are the chances for Rudolph to have done that swap, because he didn't want his child raised by Kyrie. I mean, according to Kyrie, she was Rudolph's #1, yet this swap doesn't make sense - additionally, info from EP6 and EP7 have made it sound as if Rudolph actually loved Asumu, unlike what Kyrie seems to believe. So, unless we think either a.) Rudolph didn't want his son to be raised by her, or b.) He wanted to save face, and did the swap so that people wouldn't think he had a child outside marriage, then this doesn't make sense (there may be other possibilities, I don't know). Personally, I think the former is more likely, since almost everyone knew he was a player and almost everyone knew he was cheating Asumu with Kyrie.
I think there's something fucked up with the Sumadera family, Rudolph found out but by that time, he had already got close to Kyrie and he couldn't shake her off. He said he married Kyrie because Ange was on her way, and that was the responsible thing to do. I cannot help but to smell something fishy from the Sumaderas, Okonogi, Hideyoshi, Kyrie and maybe even George. However, this would sound like some sort of conspiracy, and I guess that goes against Dine's rules.
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2010-08-27, 00:48 | Link #931 | ||
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Because Rudolph loved Asumu, he realized how heartbroken she would be to learn that her child had been stillborn, whereas her enemy and Rudolph's mistress, Kyrie, had managed to successfully give birth. Therefore Rudolph, for Asumu's happiness, and for the sake of creating a perfectly functioning nuclear family, made the swap, leaving Kyrie to spend over a decade languishing in despair, hatred, and envy. Quote:
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2010-08-27, 03:37 | Link #932 |
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If you have a secret sub base, wouldn't you need effectively a small refinery or a significant sized reservour of fuel to supply it between trips.
This could account for part of the explosion, along with unused munitions in the vicinity as a means to start up a chain reaction of some sort. |
2010-08-27, 05:21 | Link #933 | |
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And as far as I know, even submarine fuel doesn't actually explode. You can use it as an additional force in an explosion, but I think you would still need explosives for that. I admit I'm not an expert on physics or chemical science...maybe some of our experts in those fields can give a definite answer here ...
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2010-08-27, 08:15 | Link #934 |
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I'm not entirely sure what the purpose of the Rokkenjima installation was. It seems like the way Kinzo was talking about it, it was meant to be a natural pen for hiding the subs in (to avoid Allied sub hunts or maybe aerial attacks?) and for rearming the torpedoes. It doesn't seem to have been a major installation with full facilities, nor would it make sense for it to be, because (1) I'm pretty sure there were major shipyards and sub pens on the Japanese mainland not that far away, (2) if it were a "proper" base, the military would've been a lot more active there (Kinzo seemed really bored) and the government wouldn't have quite so easily forgotten about it.
Then again, they in one breath say the base is top secret and in another say the Italians knew they were coming there when they set out, so I guess it wasn't that big a secret.
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2010-08-27, 09:23 | Link #935 |
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Kinzo makes it clear that calling it a base is an overstatement. It was more like a cavern barely adapted to work as a base and it wasn't even finished.
So yes it was a natural pen that was artificially enlarged. As to how the italians came to know of its existence I don't think it was clearly stated, but I can only think of two possibilities: 1) the italian submarine launched a distress call once in the vicinity of the japanese borders <- this must be true, because Yamamoto knew of their arrival in advance. 2a) the japanese military picked that signal and redirected them to the nearest base because their submarine was badly damaged and needed to dock as soon as possible. However why such important guests were left by themselves with a deranged squad? 2b) Yamamoto himself picked the signal and gave them the necessary instructions to dock in Rokkenjima. However how did he manage to communicate that message?
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2010-08-27, 09:52 | Link #936 | |
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Submarines of that era ran on diesel pretty much exclusively. There was a small population of petrol-using submarines, but it largely ended with WWI era. Diesel fuel is mostly the non-volatile fraction of crude oil. Explosions of liquid hydrocarbons are actually a bit overhyped, as they don't contain oxidiser of their own -- what explodes in a gas station is not the fuel itself, but fumes of the lighter fractions of gasoline mixed with air. Diesel fuel has very little of those, so while you can make it explode if you really want to, a thousand tons will at most create a lake of fire, which will be very hard to put out, but won't make a crater. You can make an effective bomb with diesel fuel, for example by mixing it with ammonium nitrate, which works as an oxidiser -- that's ANFO, a popular industrial explosive. It would still only be 0.8 TNT equivalent so you'd need 1125 tons of it, it requires a complicated mixing procedure to make, and it will absorb water from air, which would render it completely inert in a few months at most. If that wasn't enough, the actual challenge in this case would be to make the entire thousand tons go off at once without scattering all around. (With bricks of TNT that wouldn't be anywhere that much of a problem.) Not going to work, I'm afraid. The text implies that the CO of the base knew Italians were coming and knew they were Italians. If the base really was that big a secret, Italians wouldn't know they need to go there. If they were directed there, it may still have been a big secret but that doesn't explain the absence of an officer from HQ who would deal with it. This is actually one of the bigger holes in the sub story.
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2010-08-27, 10:04 | Link #938 |
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Of course not, even if he did he should have immediately informed his superiors, which then again brings the problem of why some higher officer didn't went there to welcome the guests.
Was the japan brought to such a disarray at that time? So this scenario implies that Yamamoto acted by his own accord. However why would he do that if he didn't know about the gold yet?
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2010-08-27, 10:27 | Link #939 | |
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1944? Far from it. They started losing the naval war, and they're desperately short on fuel (which is why nobody would forget over a thousand tons of diesel fuel) but they're definitely not in chaos -- even Yamato is still afloat.
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2010-08-27, 10:36 | Link #940 |
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It was actually 1945.
there is a comment note in the code that says ;■1945年、六軒島。@地上。@ just before the scene where submarine arrives. however I don't think it changes anything. As far as I know Japan could still continue that war for a long while if it weren't for the nuclear bombs.
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