(L) Dungeon ni Deai o Motomeru no wa Machigatte Iru Darou ka (LN)

[Xellos-_^]

there is no reason for Aiz to fall in love with Bell at this point. But that doesn't mean it won't change in the future. Aiz sound as dense as any male lead. It would take full blown confession to get through to her head.

[KnightShade]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

there is no reason for Aiz to fall in love with Bell at this point. But that doesn't mean it won't change in the future. Aiz sound as dense as any male lead. It would take full blown confession to get through to her head.

yeah..... nope. not understanding the concept of a date is ichika level dense. there are two types of pairings; A. the pairing with mutual affections B. the pairing where one has to win over the other. more often then not, the latter option devolves down making characters stupid to prolong the plot to the point where if it doesn't work out, one wouldn't feel sympathy simply because they had better options available to them.

to me bell's whole reasoning for ignoring his feelings for hestia makes no sense. he is an adventurer, the moment he gets involved with anyone, he dooms them to a life of knowing that at any moment, he could be gone from them forever. he's already in too deep with hestia as it is. if bell was that concerned about her having to spend eternity without him, he would have quit her familia the first chance he got.

[Kuroageha]

That's something in other site people discussed to death, each time someone said Aiz had no romantic feels for Bell, her shippers would shout at the heavens.


Btw, I always thought Lily with Fine worked for me, the problem is worst twin Tione.

[Somethindarker]

Originally Posted by kidstandout

so basically she's ichika? well if i was ever thinking about shipping aiz x bell, that thought is completely dead now.

What does it mean when you said "if i was ever thinking about shipping aiz x bell" I've heard other people say that I know what shipping is mind you but what does it mean to legitimately "ship"? Is there a difference between seeing a possibility for a relationship down the line and "shipping"? When you ship someone do you automatically discount the validity of other pairings like say NaruSaku fans did before Naruto's ending? Not trying to sound condescending or call you out I'm legitimately curious since I don't understand what it means to "ship".

Originally Posted by kidstandout

yeah..... nope. not understanding the concept of a date is ichika level dense. there are two types of pairings; A. the pairing with mutual affections B. the pairing where one has to win over the other. more often then not, the latter option devolves down making characters stupid to prolong the plot to the point where if it doesn't work out, one wouldn't feel sympathy simply because they had better options available to them.

to me bell's whole reasoning for ignoring his feelings for hestia makes no sense. he is an adventurer, the moment he gets involved with anyone, he dooms them to a life of knowing that at any moment, he could be gone from them forever. he's already in too deep with hestia as it is. if bell was that concerned about her having to spend eternity without him, he would have quit her familia the first chance he got.

Spoiler:

Thing is that's been addressed as far as I know he's at the point where, and I could be wrong my japanese is horrible, not minding a relationship with Hestia he hasn't doomed the girls because he's beginning to accept that he has feelings for them especially Hestia and Lili. My friend who's a hardcore aizxloki shipper went batshit insane when Aiz's story arcs started sharing similarities with Shiina from "Sakurasou no Pet na Kanojo" story.

[KnightShade]

Originally Posted by Somethindarker

What does it mean when you said "if i was ever thinking about shipping aiz x bell" I've heard other people say that I know what shipping is mind you but what does it mean to legitimately "ship"? Is there a difference between seeing a possibility for a relationship down the line and "shipping"? When you ship someone do you automatically discount the validity of other pairings like say NaruSaku fans did before Naruto's ending? Not trying to sound condescending or call you out I'm legitimately curious since I don't understand what it means to "ship".

Spoiler:

Thing is that's been addressed as far as I know he's at the point where, and I could be wrong my japanese is horrible, not minding a relationship with Hestia he hasn't doomed the girls because he's beginning to accept that he has feelings for them especially Hestia and Lili. My friend who's a hardcore aizxloki shipper went batshit insane when Aiz's story arcs started sharing similarities with Shiina from "Sakurasou no Pet na Kanojo" story.

to ship a pairing basically means you support the idea of two characters hooking up, regardless of whether cannon supports it or not. so yeah shipping is inherantly different then interpreting cannon pairings. most shippers tend to discount other pairings regardless of cannon; worse case scenario is when they write fanfics to make there head cannons a reality. re-writing endings is common trope used by shippers on the losing end. now that's not to say this particular practice is wrong (especially when over whelming reaction to the cannon is that the author's pairings are forced and conflict with previous cannon(korra comes to mind)). some shippers except cannon but simply choose to ship pairings simply due to preference. shipping in itself also extends past fanfics; fanart, blogs, forums even doujins tend to be the most common tools of shipping. shipping is also not limited to one pairing. for example, when i was considering the aiz x bell ship, i meant shipping that along with bell x hestia. that could mean i want a harem or i'm happy with either or. hope this helps

hope that's the case because tbh the main romance of danmachi is it's weakest point so far. one only has to look at welf did in the same volume and wonder "why isn't he the mc" lol jk

[Somethindarker]

Originally Posted by kidstandout

to ship a pairing basically means you support the idea of two characters hooking up, regardless of whether cannon supports it or not. so yeah shipping is inherantly different then interpreting cannon pairings. most shippers tend to discount other pairings regardless of cannon; worse case scenario is when they write fanfics to make there head cannons a reality. re-writing endings is common trope used by shippers on the losing end. now that's not to say this particular practice is wrong (especially when over whelming reaction to the cannon is that the author's pairings are forced and conflict with previous cannon(korra comes to mind)). some shippers except cannon but simply choose to ship pairings simply due to preference. shipping in itself also extends past fanfics; fanart, blogs, forums even doujins tend to be the most common tools of shipping. shipping is also not limited to one pairing. for example, when i was considering the aiz x bell ship, i meant shipping that along with bell x hestia. that could mean i want a harem or i'm happy with either or. hope this helps

hope that's the case because tbh the main romance of danmachi is it's weakest point so far. one only has to look at welf did in the same volume and wonder "why isn't he the mc" lol jk

Holyshit that's hardcore, I don't care nearly enough about some imaginary characters relationship to go rabid like that I tend to look at fanfics in general as an oddity and to maybe give me some inspiration on my WN that I'm working on but to think some people would choose a fanfic over the canon facts is beyond my realm of understanding.

Also the ending to LoK was retarded as all hell and I recently got into a heated debate over 4 hours on 4chan about it and the general consensus of fans was negative, not because of the Korasami as much as the ass pull ending and completely shitty writing in seasons 3-4 disregarding previous canon and everything, and most fans were glad it got canned.

Also Welf is my best girl to be honest I'd seriously prefer a spin-off Shokugeki no Souma style of Welf competing with other blacksmiths and making badass looking gear, over the Ais one since I find it fucking boring. Kubo should illustrate since he has some of the coolest designs and Welfs harem should be written by the MonMusu author. This series would destroy all.

[KnightShade]

Originally Posted by Somethindarker

Holyshit that's hardcore, I don't care nearly enough about some imaginary characters relationship to go rabid like that I tend to look at fanfics in general as an oddity and to maybe give me some inspiration on my WN that I'm working on but to think some people would choose a fanfic over the canon facts is beyond my realm of understanding.

Also the ending to LoK was retarded as all hell and I recently got into a heated debate over 4 hours on 4chan about it and the general consensus of fans was negative, not because of the Korasami as much as the ass pull ending and completely shitty writing in seasons 3-4 disregarding previous canon and everything, and most fans were glad it got canned.

Also Welf is my best girl to be honest I'd seriously prefer a spin-off Shokugeki no Souma style of Welf competing with other blacksmiths and making badass looking gear, over the Ais one since I find it fucking boring. Kubo should illustrate since he has some of the coolest designs and Welfs harem should be written by the MonMusu author. This series would destroy all.

if it helps you understand, look at infinite stratos. the author basically pairs mc with a raging tsundure due to the classic childhood friend trope, even though they have no chemistry at all. then you have charlotte dunois who is literally the exact opposite of main girl in that she acts like an actual person and has chemistry with mc (in spite of him being a dense moron). one could argue that if a story sucks just move on, but that's easier said then done. fanfics are just another way of people coping with shitty authors that somehow manage to write good characters before fucking it up.

korra in general was a failure in so many ways but tbh, i haven't liked avatar since the copout ending in ATLA. they ruined prince zuko in so many ways since that god wful comic series.

completely agree that welf should have got the spinoff, it's clearly wasted on the "lol"ki familia. i hate when series try to convince you give a shit about useless cutesy characters like lefiya.

[Somethindarker]

Originally Posted by kidstandout

if it helps you understand, look at infinite stratos. the author basically pairs mc with a raging tsundure due to the classic childhood friend trope, even though they have no chemistry at all. then you have charlotte dunois who is literally the exact opposite of main girl in that she acts like an actual person and has chemistry with mc (in spite of him being a dense moron). one could argue that if a story sucks just move on, but that's easier said then done. fanfics are just another way of people coping with shitty authors that somehow manage to write good characters before fucking it up.

korra in general was a failure in so many ways but tbh, i haven't liked avatar since the copout ending in ATLA. they ruined prince zuko in so many ways since that god wful comic series.

completely agree that welf should have got the spinoff, it's clearly wasted on the "lol"ki familia. i hate when series try to convince you give a shit about useless cutesy characters like lefiya.

Don't get me started on Lefailya she's probably the main reason I dropped that series, it's a shame about Avatar the first time americans make a popular "anime" and they fuck it up, oh well.

Anyway anyone else excited about what's going to happen now that the "rest" volume has been released? Like where will the story go now that seemingly Hestia's familia is becoming stronger and stronger and so many interesting things are happening.

[Pierre]

Originally Posted by kidstandout

to ship a pairing basically means you support the idea of two characters hooking up, regardless of whether cannon supports it or not. so yeah shipping is inherantly different then interpreting cannon pairings. most shippers tend to discount other pairings regardless of cannon; worse case scenario is when they write fanfics to make there head cannons a reality. re-writing endings is common trope used by shippers on the losing end. now that's not to say this particular practice is wrong (especially when over whelming reaction to the cannon is that the author's pairings are forced and conflict with previous cannon(korra comes to mind)). some shippers except cannon but simply choose to ship pairings simply due to preference. shipping in itself also extends past fanfics; fanart, blogs, forums even doujins tend to be the most common tools of shipping. shipping is also not limited to one pairing. for example, when i was considering the aiz x bell ship, i meant shipping that along with bell x hestia. that could mean i want a harem or i'm happy with either or. hope this helps

hope that's the case because tbh the main romance of danmachi is it's weakest point so far. one only has to look at welf did in the same volume and wonder "why isn't he the mc" lol jk

That is not entirely true, that is why you have the trope the ship sunk. While a shipping pair does not have to particularly realistic, it still has to at least be possible to some degree within the work. Its also why you have things like ship to ship combat, and why people get so heated about it. If it simply came down to whatever pair you like then honestly it would not be such a big deal, but that is not the case, its you wanting your pair to win.

[Zefyris]

Originally Posted by Kuroageha

That's something in other site people discussed to death, each time someone said Aiz had no romantic feels for Bell, her shippers would shout at the heavens.


Btw, I always thought Lily with Fine worked for me, the problem is worst twin Tione.

Yeah Lili and Finne make a great couple really. Far more than Lili and Bell actually. And the fact that it's better was proven in one chapter against 7 volumes for Lili/Bell. Quite overwhelming imo.

Lefiya is seriously starting to change with volume 4 of sword oratoria. My problems with her are diminishing quickly.

[Novem]

Yeah at this point the Lefiya hate is overdone imo. She sees Bell as her rival and is finally getting her shit together as an adventurer. Sword Oratoria has arguably been better than the main series. Volumes 2, 3, and 4 blow Bell's story in 1&2 out of the water. While also being just as good if not better than volumes 3, 5, and 6 of the main series.

Originally Posted by Zefyris

Yeah but the guy above you said "Bell is just Syr's latest love" which clearly suggest that Syr was in love with Allen before. Which is, AFAIK, completely wrong.

Oh I see what you meant. Yeah, that part is definitely wrong.

[Somethindarker]

Originally Posted by Zefyris

Yeah Lili and Finne make a great couple really. Far more than Lili and Bell actually. And the fact that it's better was proven in one chapter against 7 volumes for Lili/Bell. Quite overwhelming imo.

Lefiya is seriously starting to change with volume 4 of sword oratoria. My problems with her are diminishing quickly.

You think so? I'd say they're a good match and have good chemistry but there was no spark like there is with her and Bell sure Bell is dense as oak but the moments they DO have together always brings a smile to my face. Also which chapter are you referring to? From my side there was very little interaction between them and the whole proposal kinda came out of no where.

Unless she's suddenly started acted like a true adventurer instead of being constantly coddled she's pretty much acidic to me, no offense though. Seriously Bete, Tiona, Finn or Riveria would've been waaay better secondary focus' that Riveria.

Side note; How old do ya'll think Lili is? Before the revelation I assumed she was 14-18 but now I think she has to be in her late 20's to early 30's.

Originally Posted by Novem

Yeah at this point the Lefiya hate is overdone imo. She sees Bell as her rival and is finally getting her shit together as an adventurer. Sword Oratoria has arguably been better than the main series. Volumes 2, 3, and 4 blow Bell's story in 1&2 out of the water. While also being just as good if not better than volumes 3, 5, and 6 of the main series.



Oh I see what you meant. Yeah, that part is definitely wrong.

Thing is I liked Oratoria up to about midway of vol.2 Lefailya just kept breaking immersion as well as the attitude of the higher tiered adventurers too much cutesy bullshit going on. The main series is closer to what being a true adventurer is with desperate fights and struggle, Oratoria never convinced me anything they did had any weight or that they were in danger.

[KnightShade]

Originally Posted by Pierre

That is not entirely true, that is why you have the trope the ship sunk. While a shipping pair does not have to particularly realistic, it still has to at least be possible to some degree within the work. Its also why you have things like ship to ship combat, and why people get so heated about it. If it simply came down to whatever pair you like then honestly it would not be such a big deal, but that is not the case, its you wanting your pair to win.

It aleast being possible is the basis of crack shipping. And while wanting your pair to win is a part of shipping, its not all there is to shipping. Side pairings tend to not have any competing ships especially if theyre crack

[KnightShade]

Originally Posted by Novem

Yeah at this point the Lefiya hate is overdone imo. She sees Bell as her rival and is finally getting her shit together as an adventurer. Sword Oratoria has arguably been better than the main series. Volumes 2, 3, and 4 blow Bell's story in 1&2 out of the water. While also being just as good if not better than volumes 3, 5, and 6 of the main series.



Oh I see what you meant. Yeah, that part is definitely wrong.

Thats entirely my problem with lefiya, the fact she made it so far without having her shit together in the first place. It makes her achievements look pathetic because shes basically suceeding at stuff thats expected of her and its made out to be more than that for plot reasons.

And about sword oratoria being better than main series? Yeah... No. It doesnt have welf so it loses by default lol. Seriously tho nothing in oratoria comes close to the action 1 3 and 5. And the amount of interesting characters in main series dwarfs oratoria, thats not even up for debate

[Zefyris]

Unless she's suddenly started acted like a true adventurer instead of being constantly coddled she's pretty much acidic to me, no offense though. Seriously Bete, Tiona, Finn or Riveria would've been waaay better secondary focus' that Riveria.

Well, little did you know, Bete was harsh enough with his word for things to move. Just like he was harsh with bell at the beginning of the story. Bete's words are very harsh because they hit dead centre in what's wrong with peoples. I have no problem with the way Lefiya's acted in the second part of the 4th volume. She was indeed acting as a proper adventurer and can be proud of it. As long as she keep it up that way, that's good. Well, she still has an overpowered skill, but then again, most of Loki familia members are overpowered in one way or another. Ais' buff magic is very OP for example. So much it's ridiculous.

So Kudos to Bete for making some of the characters move when it's needed. He's defending his way of life by saying weak peoples needs the strong peoples to be like this, but seeing Bell and Lefiya, he may actually be right.

As for the chapter, I was talking about the proposal chapter. They're a better couple ImO than Lili/Bell easily. Lili is probably around 18-25, but we have no clue about it, except if there was one in one of those LE supplementary chapters since I haven't read them.

And about sword oratoria being better than main series? Yeah... No. It doesnt have welf so it loses by default lol. Seriously tho nothing in oratoria comes close to the action 1 3 and 5. And the amount of interesting characters in main series dwarfs oratoria, thats not even up for debate

The final battle at the end of the 4th volume of Oratoria was epic though. I have no complaint on this one. And the deep level passed 52 were freaking interesting. I never imagined there would be that kind of phenomenon down there. "Run and never stop even for fighting". Wow, that was so intense. It tops anything seen in the main series ImO as far as epic dungeon crawling goes. And that dwarf was so ridiculous on the 58th level ahahah. His strength is off the charts xD.
But the main series have far more interesting moments as a whole, so yeah. But it has 2 times more volume too, as well.

[Twi]

Bete is kind of a douche bag though. He just insulted Bell without him knowing that he was there, when it was his guild's fault said minotaurs were climbing up the floors. I mean, they tried to paint him as being drunk off his rocker, but he's still an elitist snob.... and it didn't do much to improve my opinion of Ais either.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Zefyris

Yeah but the guy above you said "Bell is just Syr's latest love" which clearly suggest that Syr was in love with Allen before. Which is, AFAIK, completely wrong.

Originally Posted by Novem

Oh I see what you meant. Yeah, that part is definitely wrong.

my mistake, i got syr and freya confuse since i was use to seeing "Seal" being the spelling of her name.

[KnightShade]

Series need bete like characters to not sugar coat shit. Tough love goes a long way. If you hate them for it thats mean they did their job

[Zefyris]

Originally Posted by Twi

Bete is kind of a douche bag though. He just insulted Bell without him knowing that he was there, when it was his guild's fault said minotaurs were climbing up the floors. I mean, they tried to paint him as being drunk off his rocker, but he's still an elitist snob.... and it didn't do much to improve my opinion of Ais either.

Well all he said was true. And Bete isn't half that bad. He's a wolf, and as such, he believes in strength. He respects strength, and look down on those that don't have it. Especially the weak willed ones.

[Starway]

Originally Posted by kidstandout

Thats entirely my problem with lefiya, the fact she made it so far without having her shit together in the first place. It makes her achievements look pathetic because shes basically suceeding at stuff thats expected of her and its made out to be more than that for plot reasons.

And about sword oratoria being better than main series? Yeah... No. It doesnt have welf so it loses by default lol. Seriously tho nothing in oratoria comes close to the action 1 3 and 5. And the amount of interesting characters in main series dwarfs oratoria, thats not even up for debate

My biggest problem with her isn't just the fact she pretty much a female bell clone with none of his good qualities and all of his bad qualities put up to 11 but also the fact she somehow a level 3 which means she been doing this for 3 or 4 years so somehow this spineless coward who's so scared of monsters that she can't cast a spell when they attack her despite fighting monsters for years somehow got to the elite ranks of adventurous which request going out of your safe zone and killing some thing above your level and also levelling several of your stats which for someone who's only gimmick is spending 60 second to cast a spell seem impossible this all while she's apparently so important to the main group which has 4 level 5 and 3 level 6 that she's the only one who get to hang out with them to go into floors way above her levels.

Oh and yes the whole wow lefiya you grew some spine and used your overpowered as hell magic which somehow allows you to fight with people 2 or 3 levels above you to one shot something here have a medal for doing your job gets real old real fast.