Game of Thrones

[thundrakkon]

Oh, I forgot to mention this. One of the key points about Lady Olenna telling Jaime that she killed Joffrey is that this clears Tyrion. It's a step forward to reconciliation between Jaime and Tyrion, and it's another step to wedge between Cersei and Jaime, since it was Cersei that was hellbent on blaming Tyrion, which led to Tyrion eventually leaving and killing their father.

[frubam]

Pretty great episode this week. Y'know, I wasn't expecting Jon to reach Dragonstone until at least 1 ep from now, so it was kind of shocking to see him reach it right at the beginning of the episode.

That speech sir Davos gave was just spot on! It sounds so much better when someone else explains your accomplishments without all the fanfare. When Missandei was mentioning all of Daenarys's titles, I kinda rolled my eyes as it felt like she was laying it on extra thicc.

Bran definitely felt like a whole other person at this point, like his emotions fled him or something. I thought it was especially inconsiderate to mention to Sansa about her horrible first sexual experience. I know he was trying to prove a point, but still, it was probably the first time I felt creeped out from him using his powers =01. Can't wait til Arya's back.

That Littlefinger thought process.... D0=

[Kanon]

Cersei is going to be pissed if Jaime tells her Olenna was Joffrey's true murderer and that he let her die painlessly. If I were him, I'd keep my mouth shut. Telling her the truth wouldn't help anybody at this point anyway.

I half expected Jon to interact with the dragons and impress Daenarys since they spoke of them several times in this ep. Maybe later, but it's more likely his lineage will be revealed to him by Bran and that he'll get no hints before that.

[Reckoner]

The writing quality of this show has nose dived these last two seasons since passing the books. No appreciation of medieval battle, people teleporting all over the map at a snap of a finger, a misunderstanding of the armies of each kingdom (tyrell resources are supposed to be considerably greater than even a full Lannister army), and just a whole slew of other stupid bullshit. I just wish GRMM could finish the actual story because this is embarrassing.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by Reckoner

The writing quality of this show has nose dived these last two seasons since passing the books. No appreciation of medieval battle, people teleporting all over the map at a snap of a finger, a misunderstanding of the armies of each kingdom (tyrell resources are supposed to be considerably greater than even a full Lannister army), and just a whole slew of other stupid bullshit. I just wish GRMM could finish the actual story because this is embarrassing.

Well with the Tyrell's you have to remember that her lords are rebelling against her. The lannister resources include not just their own personal men but all of their bannermen aswell; The same would go for the Tyrell's. The Tarley's(who are the reach's strongest forces) and the other lords of the Reach turned against her. She doesn't have the full might the Reach to protect high garden, only her own personal forces... House Tyrell was basically facing the might of one kingdom while their own kingdom openly rebelled against them

Though i do agree the teleporting is getting annoying. Greyworm leaves for Casterly Rock LONG before Euron, and yet Euron still manges to arrive just after they finish taking the castle. And this is not to mention that a ea voage to the otherside of westeroes would be a very long trip. Matching the lannister forces to high garden would have taken weeks if not months; and yet no one noticed? One could try to say that events are happening over longer periods of time than it seems but it doesn't quite work. I feel like part of what made the war of five kings work is because it actually took 2 seasons for it to play out. Its easy to believe that multiple months had passed over the course of the war. Here the armies are jumping around from one episode to the next. With that much movement happening over the course of a single episode, it feels like only days have passed not weeks or months.

[grecefar]

Jamie it's going to become Queenslayer by the end of the season.

[GDB]

Originally Posted by MrTerrorist

Well looks like Tyrion got out gambit when his plan to attack Casterly Rock didn't work out for him since Jaime got all of Lannister Army to attack High Garden.

While Cersei and Jaime may not care about the Rock anymore, it will likely still have a pretty good impact on the morale of their troops. This was THE fortress that had never been taken. This was the Lannister home. And they just threw it away and let it be taken?

Originally Posted by grecefar

Jamie it's going to become Queenslayer by the end of the season.

Hasn't that been the expectation for years now?

[MrTerrorist]

While waiting for the next episode...

[NAJ P. Jackson]

I just watched the leak. I feel bad I couldn't resist the temptation but holy hell the ep was dope. I won't spoil you guys but damn, you're in for a treat.

Originally Posted by GDB

While Cersei and Jaime may not care about the Rock anymore, it will likely still have a pretty good impact on the morale of their troops. This was THE fortress that had never been taken. This was the Lannister home. And they just threw it away and let it be taken?
?

Jaime explained that their enemies would not be able to keep it anyway, not when they strip it of supplies. Eventually the Unsullied will be forced to abandon the Keep. And with Euron destroying the transportation they'll be force to march all the way to meet up with the rest of Daenary's army. Plenty of opputunity for the Lannisters tos etup an ambush for them. I little cold of Jaime to leave behind the skeleton crew to die but we know how these Lannisters fight wars.

Originally Posted by Chosen_Hero

I love how while all the most powerful women in the series are fighting for the Iron Throne, Jon Snow is the only one tackling the actual plot of the entire story. Hopefully they drop all the bs soon (maybe at least get rid of Cersei) and start working on defending Westeros from the Long Night because at this point It's looking like the biggest catfight ever.

War of the Five Queens. Well Four.

Daenarys
Cersei
Ellaria
Olenna <-- She's Queen of the Fucking Thorns. She counts

Sansa is technically not a Queen and she's not fighting for the Iron Throne. Jon and Euron are the only Kings alive left. They should just divide the bitches between themselves. Euron gets Olenna coz he's probably into that shit.

[sunset]

How does Jaime's Casterly Rock plan work exactly?

Did he evacuate all of the place except for a few soldiers?

What about the families that lived there? Way it worked back in the day, it's not just the castle, it's the surrounding village(s) with all the peasant families that sustained it, barbers, bakers, shoemakers...

Where did they go, to the other bannermen houses? Other lords would frown upon taking in extra mouths to feed, even if they swore allegiance to him.

[NAJ P. Jackson]

They don't bother with details like that in the show. Just look at how easy it was for the Lannister army to take High Garden. The Tyrell army may not be good fighters but their bannermen is no slouch, their knights are known for their chivalry and the Reach can actually field the most army in all the seven kingdoms. Granted a few of their banner switch sides to the crown but surely not all of them did. It would have taken the Lannister army longer to defeat them with lots of casualties on both sides. The timeskips in each episodes skews the timelime for us to properly grasp a few details.

As for the Casterly Rock situation, it's the e stronghold of the House of Lannister. I don't think civilians live there. They do in Lannisport but it's located south a bit further of the castle. Jaime mostly likely didn't bother to warn the civilians and the soldiers left of a possible enemy invasion.

[Sheba]

The cruelty of the punishment delivered by Cersei to the murderers of her daughter might be the one time I can give her my respects. Those bitches totally had it coming.

[AntonKutovoi]

Miracle of Sound released Jon Snow song:

[MrTerrorist]

So the 4th episode of Season 7 is officially out.
Damm, that was great battle at the end. Actually, it was more like a massacre.

[NAJ P. Jackson]

I'm annoyed by that Dothraki commenting about Westerossi Knight not knowing how to fight. Dude I'd like to see how your hoard will fare with dragonfire.

Dany turning to Jon for advice. In a way he's right about what the people will think if she goes around burning around and you can tell that most there like Tyrion, Davos and Varys agree with him but I had hope he gave more useful advice on how to strike out against her enemies. They should just made him offer the plan to attack the Lannister army returning from sacking High Garden instead of the Red Keep. I though about it and it would go something like this.

Jon gave a speech of how the people will see her if she burn cities with her Dragon

Daenarys looks contemplative as she gazes on her 3 dragons

Jon: "That said, there is no denying your dragons are are a huge asset in this war and sooner or later you will have to start using them otherwise Cersei will think your soft. Make it so that your enemies will be reluctant to face you in the open field."

Tyrion nods "Psychological warfare."

Jon: "So since we establish that attacking cities is out we need to find a much better target."

Jon turns to Davos. "Ser Davos, do you have your maps with you?"

Davos: "I'm a sailor. I always have my maps with me." Takes out map of Westeros.

Jon: "Lord Varys, how old is the news of the sack of High Garden?"

Varys: "My little birds sent the fastest ravens they have. 4-5 days perhaps."

Jon: "And how long does it take to travel from Kings Landing to High Garden?"

Tyrion: "Two weeks" (I'm just making this up. I don't know the exact distance between the two.)

Jon shook his head. "I'd say much longer. They'll be burdened by the loot they are carrying. Winter is here. The South may not have snow yet but what they do have is rain. Which mean the road will be muddy and slow down wagons further."

Jon looks at the map and then looks up at Dany. "There's your target, your grace. You need to setup an ambush. Your army is mainly compose of Dothraki and their strenght is their open charge. Use that strength.

Dany: "Tyrion, what do you think?"

Tyrion: "It's a sound strategy. And I believe I know the perfect place for an ambush."

He points to a place in the map. "Right here. Flat lands from miles on end. Perfect for a Dothraki charge."

Dany: "Good. Make it happen, Lord Tyrion."

Jon: "Be warned, your Grace. As fearsome as your Dothraki they won't be able to break a Shield Wall. That's where your Dragons comes in."

Dany turns to Jon and gives him a nod.

Or something like this that shows Jon's strength as a military commander.

[Jaden]

Great episode, that. This show does a good job showing people get absolutely R E K T on an epic scale.

The logistics are a bit iffy, since King's Landing is right between Highgarden and Dragonstone.

Without passing right by King's Landing, Daenerys' army had to move from Dragonstone to the space between King's Landing and Highgarden to catch the Lannister army moving between there. Even with their great mobility, the strategy would be unthinkable in a game of HOMM or something.

I guess it was possible, because the Lannister army was busying itself with looting all the farms in the region. They did say that the gold shipment already made it to King's Landing. Meaning that they would've been safe if they didn't bother with the farms and just moved quickly?

[thundrakkon]

Quote

Originally Posted by NAJ P. Jackson

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In all likelihood, Jon did advise Daenerys to attack Jaime's army. They didn't show that because they wanted to keep it as a surprise for the end, and it was a splendid surprise indeed.

Daenarys is not a military strategist, so she would not have thought about taking out Jaime's army. She tends to just charge straight in with brute force and would have her mind set on King's Landing. The fact that she didn't already tells you that Jon influenced her. The only ones there that would have figured out this strategy were Jon, Davos, or Tyrion, so Jon gets the benefit of the doubt on this.

[NAJ P. Jackson]

Yeah Dany desperately needs a military strategist on her team because as smart as Tyrion is warfare startegy is not his forte. Jorah will fill that role once he meets up with them but for now they are going in blind.

That scene of Jaime and Bronn staring horrified as Drogon swoops in ahead of the Dothraki was epic. Their expression of "Oh Fuck" was on point.

Originally Posted by Jaden

Great episode, that. This show does a good job showing people get absolutely R E K T on an epic scale.

The logistics are a bit iffy, since King's Landing is right between Highgarden and Dragonstone.

Without passing right by King's Landing, Daenerys' army had to move from Dragonstone to the space between King's Landing and Highgarden to catch the Lannister army moving between there. Even with their great mobility, the strategy would be unthinkable in a game of HOMM or something.

I guess it was possible, because the Lannister army was busying itself with looting all the farms in the region. They did say that the gold shipment already made it to King's Landing. Meaning that they would've been safe if they didn't bother with the farms and just moved quickly?

Nah they didn't need to pass near Kings Landing. Their ships would have to unload them in Duskendale and then travel West then South. The Dothraki will be faster in traveling since all of them rides horses and the Lannister army are burdened by the many wagons of Gold and Food they are transporting. And like you said, they took their time harvesting this season's crops.

[Slayerx]

Originally Posted by NAJ P. Jackson

I'm annoyed by that Dothraki commenting about Westerossi Knight not knowing how to fight. Dude I'd like to see how your hoard will fare with dragonfire.

Dany turning to Jon for advice. In a way he's right about what the people will think if she goes around burning around and you can tell that most there like Tyrion, Davos and Varys agree with him but I had hope he gave more useful advice on how to strike out against her enemies. They should just made him offer the plan to attack the Lannister army returning from sacking High Garden instead of the Red Keep. I though about it and it would go something like this.


Or something like this that shows Jon's strength as a military commander.

Thing is, Jon has not been shown to be a great military commander. I mean he was heavily outnumbered and out-armed by the boltons and yet the best idea he could come up with was "let them come to us" and even then he let his emotions get the better of him and ended up not sticking to the plan. The battle of the bastards would have been a disaster if not for the timely arrival of the Vale as Sansa's request. Really Jon did not seem to put much thought into how he could have taken away Ramsey's numerical advantage so they wouldn't get overwhelmed. Jon's leadership comes from him always looking at the bigger picture, being fair, being just and his selflessness.

Dany DOES need a military leader though i think that leader is meant to be Ser Jorah. Jorah is a veteran who fought during the greyjoy rebellion and Tywin worried about him being by dany's side enough for him to mess up their relationship

Originally Posted by Jaden

Great episode, that. This show does a good job showing people get absolutely R E K T on an epic scale.

The logistics are a bit iffy, since King's Landing is right between Highgarden and Dragonstone.

Without passing right by King's Landing, Daenerys' army had to move from Dragonstone to the space between King's Landing and Highgarden to catch the Lannister army moving between there. Even with their great mobility, the strategy would be unthinkable in a game of HOMM or something.

Actually since the wagon with the gold reached king's landing, we can guess that the lannister amry was just outside of kings landing. The army was stretched thin, but they could have been just a few dozen miles from the city. Also if you look at the map, the road to kingslanding runs directly south of the city, and to the east of that road, just outside of kingslanding, their is a shoreline to the bay where dragonstone sits. Most likely Dany ambushed jamie when he was fairly close to the city

[NAJ P. Jackson]

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Thing is, Jon has not been shown to be a great military commander. I mean he was heavily outnumbered and out-armed by the boltons and yet the best idea he could come up with was "let them come to us" and even then he let his emotions get the better of him and ended up not sticking to the plan. The battle of the bastards would have been a disaster if not for the timely arrival of the Vale as Sansa's request. Really Jon did not seem to put much thought into how he could have taken away Ramsey's numerical advantage so they wouldn't get overwhelmed. Jon's leadership comes from him always looking at the bigger picture, being fair, being just and his selflessness.

He's not shown to use sound strategies in the show but I heard he's smarter and a better leader in the books. All I'm saying is the the showrunners NEED to show that their Jon is just much of a military commander as book Jon.

Anyway about Battle of the Bastards. I put it of as him not still over his Death. His death and rebirth did something to him. You can tell he lost some of his confidence and he went into that battle half-hearted with the only focus is to save his family member so Jon rushing to save Rickon is in character for him. It's as if he doesn't care if he lives or dies in that battle and that scene of him crawling up the mountain of bodies and taking a huge lungful of breath is symbolism that Jon finally chooses to live.

Originally Posted by Slayerx

Actually since the wagon with the gold reached king's landing, we can guess that the lannister amry was just outside of kings landing. The army was stretched thin, but they could have been just a few dozen miles from the city. Also if you look at the map, the road to kingslanding runs directly south of the city, and to the east of that road, just outside of kingslanding, their is a shoreline to the bay where dragonstone sits. Most likely Dany ambushed jamie when he was fairly close to the city

Nah that's not feasible. According to this MAP Dragonstone sits a little higher at Northeast of Kings Landing. And the road south of Kings Landing leads directly to the Kingswood and not a viable place to setup an ambush for the Dothraki.

Besides it's very dangerous for Daenary's army to go near Blackwater Bay. They don't know if Cersei employed Tyrion's last tactic of placing wildfire mines all over that bay. Much safer for them to disembark at Duskendale which is nearer to Dragonstone.