Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 8 Discussion / Poll

[Sute443]

Originally Posted by Viridian

Wait, if Battler honestly doesn't believe in magic, exactly how does he think he's in his current situation? (Observing some kind of "second playthrough", seeing the colour of people's words etc).

There's a difference between believing in an afterlife and believing magic exists in the real world. I'm pretty sure Battler believes himself to be dead and in some sort of afterlife. As such, different rules can apply there. There's no reason to believe that sort of weird stuff can't exist in the afterlife even though it is absent from the living world. Similarly, there's no reason to believe such things exist in the living world just because they exist in the afterlife.

Originally Posted by Isekaijin

Seeing the fight between Kanon and the "furnitures" and the apparition of those two "stakes" Asmodeus and Satan, I really can't help but think that Beatrice is really a witch.

What fight? I don't see any evidence of a fight having taken place. Sure, Jessica is dead, but she was stabbed in the back. She was probably taken by surprise. And how does the presence of some occult stake in her back prove the existence of a witch? It was probably the doing of some occult enthusiast who wanted to make everyone believe in a witch.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by TTR

Oh, the english translations of the red text are posted? Hm, well, here are the japanese texts taken straight from the show, I haven't seen it posted yet so it might be helpful to the anime viewers to have them.

I have already added the original japanese, and even the japanese used for the original red statements from the game.

[Jan-Poo]

Originally Posted by scr

礼拝堂の扉は、礼拝堂の鍵以外では施錠も解錠も不可能！
(reihaidou no tobira ha, reihaidou no kagi igai de ha sejyou mo kaijyou mo fukanou!)

So in the end there really is a major difference between this red truth and the one shown in the novel:

礼拝堂の施錠は礼拝堂の鍵以外では開錠不可能

basically they are identical except for one thing: the novel's red truth only mention "unlocking" while the anime's also says "locking".

This is quite relevant considering the main problem here is not how the chapel was unlocked, but how was locked. In fact, even if Beatrice gave the key to Maria as she said, she could have opened the door right before that. And therefore the problem of how the adults entered the chapel is really easy to explain.

Now some people have speculated that a mechanism exist to lock to door without the key, similarly to the autolock that was shown in Kinzo's room. However with this addition in the anime, such an explanation cannot stand anymore.

[Karlson]

Different order of people dying...different place where the corpses were put...and a different way they were killed...I felt like I knew this was going to happen ever since the end of episode 5 and that nice bit of extra focus on Rosa the previous episode. Well this is definitely gonna make things more complicated to grasp and understand but that makes it more interesting for me. Don't know what the hell that whole deal was with the fights but it sure was entertaining enough to watch.

And everytime I hear that laugh from Maria, I just want to RAGE! but maybe that's the whole point of it

[IfritTower]

I thought the fight scene was really well done, but the Halloween party wasn't as horrifying as I imagined it. The red was done exactly as I thought they would and generally good. An 8/10 from me.

[Matrim]

Underwhelming episode, IMO. The discovery of the "Happy Halloween" slaughter scene totally lacked atmosphere and punched and was more or less your average murder in the anime, with terrible cencorship to boot. The goats were, I don't know, too real, if that makes sense. In the game they are just silhouettes, hear they are some weregoats. They were almost scary, though, unlike Beatrice's ridiculous voice and Maria's faces, so I give them points for that. The red text was presented nicely.

There were some points where it looked like a freaking ball room Lazy lazy animating.

Yes, when Kanon jumped to strike the first goat, he looked like he was 20 metres high into the air or something, it was hilarious.

[Dear Aerith]

I really liked the scene between Kanon and Jeshika.

[maximilianjenus]

Originally Posted by Zeroryoko1974

Exploitable.

I was going to complain about a certain demon's voice, but the explanation that they want to make them more unique is good for me, so I consider this a good chapter.

[Exellon_Nanoha]

My the part were kannon was reaching out for Jessica was soooo bitter-sweet TT___TT I actually used to like beatrice but after that touching sad scene then seeing her laugh at them really made me think she truly is an evil witch.

[orion]

I wonder why is Maria sittng that close to the screen. At that distance you're not watching the show but listening to it imo. Hmm... could she already be showing the effects of poisoning (blurred vision)?

[Antera Caramichael]

Or maybe she is close because the adult are talking loud and that she can't hear her show anymore (It offen happen to me as well =p)

[TsundereCake]

Originally Posted by orion

I wonder why is Maria sittng that close to the screen. At that distance you're not watching the show but listening to it imo. Hmm... could she already be showing the effects of poisoning (blurred vision)?

Perspective fail?

[y0shi]

This is copied from the Red Truth Thread:

Spoiler:

Context: After Beatrice declared that the genuine key was in Maria's envelope when she gave it, Meta Battler pressed on the fact that the culprit could still get the key then put it back. Beatrice's "counter" goes like this.
Quote:
Beatrice: "N, ......not yet. I remove the check... ...The envelope with the key in it should have been sealed with wax...! Rosa took it from an unopened envelope..."

Meta Battler: "Really, then try saying it!! Repeat it!! 'The envelope handed over midday yesterday and the envelope that Rosa oba-san opened are the same thing'."

Beatrice: "Th, that I can repeat. The letter that I handed over to Maria and the one Rosa opened are the same thing!!"
original jp:妾が真里亞に渡した封筒と、楼座が開封した封筒は同一のものであるぞ!!
However, Meta Battler figured out that the envelope doesnt' matter since you can always put again the wax seal. So he manages to get the upper hand, as Beatrice isn't able to repeat his request as follow:
Quote:
"'The key to the chapel inside the envelope Maria received wasn't used even once until Rosa oba-san opened the envelope'!!"

On the red truth thread it says that this wasnt in the episode but isnt that basically the same as 2,50-3.30? Battelr says that Beatrice should repeat that no one was able to touch the key after maria obtained it, and she looks kinda shocked and doesnt repeat it.

Isnt this the same?

[Klashikari]

For completion sake, I've put every lines so people can see if there is any subtle change or not.
The thing is that Battler's line in the game wouldn't make sense with so many shortcut. The way it was done by battler in the anime has roughly the same meaning, but the reasoning isn't as far as he did in the game.

[MeoTwister5]

I also assume that Ryukishi probably had direct control on Red Text presentation and wording in the series. That said I surmise he also had direct control which Red Text the series will show and which he will not.

This in turn leads me to believe that he has a different idea on those that never saw the light of day. This raises questions on how important the omitted Red Text is compared to what made it in, since I think in an interview with him he mentioed he was trying to make distinctions between actual clues and red-herrings for the anime.

[Sinestra]

I actually like how the game is going so far. Whenever Baterice presents Battler with a new scenario i pause the episode and me myself trying to figure out how a human could have committed the murders. However Beatrice is making the rules of the game slightly harder now i feel as it winds down the loops holes will close and Battler will be forced to directly confront Beatrice not with just intellect. I think its going to take more than just a keen mind to beat this witch. Also depending on exactly where Battler is the rules may be different.

Is he in some sort of purgatory or another dimension. Admitting that he might be dead or that he is another plan existence doesn't mean he acknowledges magic or witches exist. It just means he acknowledges there is something else it doesnt have to be magic. Knowing your surrounding and how the rules of whatever world you happen to be in gives you a fighting chance. Meta Battler has a few ways to trip up Beatrice most important watch for distractions with words. Iv notice that how she phrases certain things is not always the real meaning.

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by Sinestra

I actually like how the game is going so far. Whenever Baterice presents Battler with a new scenario i pause the episode and me myself trying to figure out how a human could have committed the murders. However Beatrice is making the rules of the game slightly harder now i feel as it winds down the loops holes will close and Battler will be forced to directly confront Beatrice not with just intellect. I think its going to take more than just a keen mind to beat this witch. Also depending on exactly where Battler is the rules may be different.

Is he in some sort of purgatory or another dimension. Admitting that he might be dead or that he is another plan existence doesn't mean he acknowledges magic or witches exist. It just means he acknowledges there is something else it doesnt have to be magic. Knowing your surrounding and how the rules of whatever world you happen to be in gives you a fighting chance. Meta Battler has a few ways to trip up Beatrice most important watch for distractions with words. Iv notice that how she phrases certain things is not always the real meaning.

Specifically, the place is called Purgatorio. No one actually knows whether he's dead or alive, but he IS there. As for Beatrice, the best non-spoiler I can tell you is that in the same way that other VN players have suggested that it is good to question what the anime is showing, do likewise for what you read and hear.

Except maybe the red text, but that's sort a very different and very difficult issue altogether and I don't have enough gray matter right now to tackle that.

[MarthX]

The official anime site calls it meta world.

Originally a fan term.

[MeoTwister5]

Well Purgatorio and MetaWorld are essentially the same, but I use MetaWorld myself anyway so it's your choice.

[Sinestra]

Originally Posted by MeoTwister5

Specifically, the place is called Purgatorio. No one actually knows whether he's dead or alive, but he IS there. As for Beatrice, the best non-spoiler I can tell you is that in the same way that other VN players have suggested that it is good to question what the anime is showing, do likewise for what you read and hear.

Except maybe the red text, but that's sort a very different and very difficult issue altogether and I don't have enough gray matter right now to tackle that.

I so dont trust that red text. I mean you can change how you word something to make it sound different and Beatrice is no slouch.