Under the Dog

[MrTerrorist]

Looks great. Hopefully it's more than one episode.

[Dr. Dahm]

Originally Posted by TinyRedLeaf

Under the Dog producer, Hiroaki Yura, just did an AMA session on Reddit today (Sept 4, 2014). There were some interesting questions and answers that gave insight into how the anime industry works as a whole.

Working within this forum's rules, here are some of the noteworthy Q&As:

As a fan I feel a lot of the stuff this Yura fellow talks about has become increasingly transparent if you're willing to see it in recent years. I'm sure the politics he talks about are actually way worse even on the inside but you can definitely see more of these anime that transparently designed by committee with no effort to really hide it anymore. One of the big trends I've noticed since the turn of the decade that makes it the most obvious is the whole super team approach where some staffers will have come to prominence and popularity with successful works of their own (usually in the otaku community) and then a big producer will try to combine them all altogether on one original animation project to try to tap into each of their individual fanbases at the same time. What usually ends up happening though is the team will seemingly be left only a vague concept to work on that only sort of gets tackled as a loose means to tie the individual aspects, commercial potentials and contributions of the super team that the producer is trying to promote to audiences together in a way that otaku with disposable income will find just acceptable enough

This tends to result in a lot of hugely hyped and anticipated projects when the producers and sponsors get to go to bat promotion wise and point out all these popular staffers they've assembled that ultimately end up feeling like far less than the sum of their parts upon actual execution and where the staff really isn't committed to anything creatively (the vibe of too many cooks in the kitchen, not enough actual say, hence the politics that Yara talks about most likely) other than just doing the bare minimum amount of work to make sure it gets on TV as scheduled so they can get paid. I see a lot of these shows where one idea has to be emphasized in particular from a source (Mahouka comes to mind) or from the committees idea factory if it's an original or this or that insert song has to be included in an episode because the production committee needs to promote their hot artist and not because it's a good fit, or this or that seiyuu has to be promoted and given a lead role strictly because they're an up and comer or a member of the production committee owns the rights to their contract (Sora Amamiya of late feels this way though I do like her it's clear she's being pushed hard by SME in works they are a sponsor for). This is or that writer or character designer is paired with this or that director because they both worked on their own projects that were highly successful (Aldnoah.Zero, Guilty Crown, Valvrave, ), not because they necessarily work well together. I really see this sort of thing a lot and it's really blatant too in how the product turns out not so memorably if coherent at all.

It's the sort of approach that works well commercially for sure, but that is just kind of about lining the pockets of a couple of really big companies executives with a permanent stake in the industry while it slowly starves it's creative drive and truly talented types who refuse to play ball so to speak so I absolutely love this idea of trying to get funding from fans and generate interest that way. I'm one of those people that has been saying for ages that anime needs to try and branch out and appeal to more audiences rather than just try to latch on to whatever is currently popular be it idols or magical girls or what have you if it wants to be about more than just making easy money so I can only hope this project enjoys some level of success and the idea catches on a bit even if it just ends up being a short fad it can show creators that there are other options and that they don't necessarily have to be beholden to big shot production organizers like Bandai and Aniplex anymore who pretty much run and have a big say in everything nowadays it seems. I just see the future of anime being really boring if only a small handful of corporations get to dictate everything about shows and continue to forever play it safe like Hollywood studio executives.

[kuromitsu]

Originally Posted by Dr. Dahm

I just see the future of anime being really boring if only a small handful of corporations get to dictate everything about shows and continue to forever play it safe like Hollywood studio executives.

Eh, the problem is, he still doesn't address the underlying issue, that is, the very reason why it came to be this way (my reasoning is on page 2). It's cool that he's trying to do something but I seriously don't see how crowdfunding and pandering to western audiences with a really generic-looking anime provides a working alternative for the industry in general.

[Dr. Dahm]

Originally Posted by kuromitsu

Eh, the problem is, he still doesn't address the underlying issue, that is, the very reason why it came to be this way (my reasoning is on page 2). It's cool that he's trying to do something but I seriously don't see how crowdfunding and pandering to western audiences with a really generic-looking anime provides a working alternative for the industry in general.

Well yeah in this case it seems more like trying to operate outside of the current system than it does about making an unusual anime. Ultimately I'm more interested in the idea and the possible doors it can open up than this particular show. I really think it's something that needs to happen though, it's scary how much complete power and profiteering is going on in the industry these days by just a couple of companies that might as well all but be the anime industry at this point and how it's affecting workers lower down the chain like animators and people that aren't big shot names according to the current industry and fanbase like your Gen Urobuchi's or Akiyuki Shinbo's.

Things are getting increasingly worse or at least more transparent for the people lower down the ladder at animation studios though and I hear more and more stories of discontent making it to twitter than ever before. I'm sure people have heard of the A-1 suicide incident for example where a key animator at the company basically came unraveled after being forced to work as many as 600 hours in a month whereas the industry average I've heard reported is 350, though realistically it's probably higher than that. For that incident that particular studio even got recognized for an annual black company award for entertainment companies in Japan which is basically like the equivalent of the Worst Company in America award as far as I understand it which I don't think has ever happened for an animation studio before so that's certainly not a good sign. Also no recognition ever comes the way of those staffers lower down on the pecking order and I often hear stories about how animators are unsatisfied with and feel detached from their work a lot of the time basically being asked to draw the same old similar cute girls for low pay. I think just the simple satisfaction that not having to work under these kinds of conditions would prove attractive to animators and undiscovered talents who feel they aren't able to have a voice.

So yeah while this particular product may not look like anything revolutionary, I totally understand where the person being interviewed is coming from and why he's advocating this sort of approach as a possible alternative.

[Stark700]

Uh...

Spoiler:

Dear UTD backers,

I sincerely apologise for the silence, it must have been a very painful few months for most of you as we weren’t able to make any kind of announcements. This will be the last update as the Producer of Under the Dog from me, as I attach the Press Release in which we are about to send to the media.

I hope you all understand that I did my best to do what’s right for the project, and I hereby regrettably resign from my post. Please feel assured that you will be in the good hands of the great creators I gathered for this project and they have given me their solemn vow to complete the Anime as intended.

Kindest regards,

Hiroaki Yura

It looks like the CIA is withdrawing from this project. There's also more info on there regarding the press release today.

Source: https://www.kickstarter.com/projects...-the-dog/posts

[cyth]

I like the wishful rationalizations in the comments as if the project can still work. Kinema Citrus will use the money to pay off their debts. That's the best role the western audience can hope to have in saving anime, hehe.

[Tiberium Wolf]

I don't get it. Did this project kick the bucket?

[NorthernFallout]

According to the comments, it got passed to another studio. Or something. It's still being worked on and it's all fine, it appears.

Said studio has a good track record imo, but I can't help but feel a bit suspicious in the veins of cyth's post Would be extremely disappointed if something were to happen to UTD.

[Dextro]

The moment that email hit my inbox I had the same idea cyth has: that's it, the project is done.

Can't say I'm surprised actually. From what I've seen Kickstarter projects with such a bad track record of communicating with the backers usually end up as failures in the worst case, disappointments in the best one. IF anything comes out of this I'll be happy, otherwise I'll just consider it a bad investment

[NorthernFallout]

New update Linky

Doesn't really tell us much, other than assurance.

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by NorthernFallout

New update Linky

Doesn't really tell us much, other than assurance.

It doesn't really assure me of much. I'll be assured when updates are a regular occurrence and there's visible progress on the project. It's a lot easier to lose trust than to gain it unfortunately.

That said we do have an updated staff listing:

Jiro Ishii [Original Story]

Yusuke Kozaki [Character Design]

Masahiro Ando [Director]

Kinema Citrus [Animation Studio]

Orange Co. [3D CGI Studio]

Kevin Penkin [Music]

Yukinori Kitajima [Script]

Makoto Fukami [Script Advice]

Seiichi Shirato [Military Background Research]

EM [Mechanical Design]

Koji Morimoto [Producer]

[TJR]

Originally Posted by Tiberium Wolf

I don't get it. Did this project kick the bucket?

The project was on indefinite hold, so most of the money should still be available. This dispute had been going on for months, which suggests that something soured between Creative Intelligence Arts (producer and co-owner of the copyright) and Kinema Citrus (hired studio) shortly after the Kickstarter campaign.

We'll probably never hear the whole story, but it doesn't sound as if anyone intended to renege on the original promises or change the overall specifications.

[The Green One]

Maybe some day we'll get the prequel, "Over the Kitty"

[totoum]

Well, this just popped up on my twitter feed, I'll just share it with no comment

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by totoum

Well, this just popped up on my twitter feed, I'll just share it with no comment

That's rather low and one-sided but it does paint a picture of problems between the producer and one of the creators which is something highly likely at this point. For now, as a backer, I'm writing the all thing off as a failed investment. If anything comes out of this it'll be a bonus to me now. I mean other projects like Santa Company had communication issues but that one was a particularly noticeable case of Engrish and not just plain silence like UTD.

[NorthernFallout]

Ah, yes. The lovely human greed. FFS.

Though not surprised in the least. If it's true, ofc.

[Marcus H.]

I guess we now have a man to be completely wary of when it comes to projects like this: Jiro Ishii.
This kind of internal struggle has killed Under the Dog, no matter if the project pushes through or not. Relations have been severed and everything seems only for commercial gain rather than creative movement.

It's Rail Wars all over again.

[IceHism]

The anime would probably flop if they targeted it to westerners but made it in japan. It would be better if they pitch their ideas to an American studio and try to realize it that way.

Anyways, not surprised. I had a feeling this would always flop. From how smug the main staff guy acted and how his story didn't really feel unique at all.

[Lenneth4]

Under the money ?
i can't belive what the reddit dude said

the project is still alive ? sorry if i didnt understood well everything

[TinyRedLeaf]

Yeah, sadly, I think it's best to think of my contribution as a failed investment too, and chalk it up as yet another example of how crowdfunding isn't the panacea to established studio/production-committee based funding as it's made out to be. The fundamental issues are about trust, accountability and transparency. And guess what? Those are the exact same issues faced by traditional production models.