(L) Infinite Stratos - Light Novel/Manga Discussion

[Shinji103]

Originally Posted by XFire

- Issei has had girls literally strip off their clothes and throw themselves at him and hasn't done jack. He's barely reached the point of kissing them of his own free will (not even sure he's done that)

- Shidou doesn't count because he is coerced into it, basically none of it comes fully from him, and he doesn't act that way after the conquest. Unless something changed in the last five volumes, I quit after Origami's existence made me puke up my insides.

I really haven't read/watched enough High School DxD to know either way about that, though as cyberdemon said you don't need to have sex or even kiss to be an alpha.

And Shidou only needed to be coerced at the very beginning, (it's not even like he was terribly reluctant) and even then he had his own reasons for helping Tohka. (the novels did a better job of showing this though, as they stated his specific reason for why he wanted to help Tohka in the first place) In fact, even the anime shows that his own drive has taken over and he's now doing helping the girls on his own. He follows Kotori and Reine's instructions because he's not a strategist; when he needs strategy, he (correctly) listens to people better suited. But he's directly ignored Kotori's instructions to stand down and has taken action on his own whenever he's needed too. Though I myself specifically said Shidou is more midway-alpha than alpha, he's a lot more alpha than you're giving him credit for.

[cyberdemon]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

I really haven't read/watched enough High School DxD to know either way about that, though as cyberdemon said you don't need to have sex or even kiss to be an alpha.

And Shidou only needed to be coerced at the very beginning, (it's not even like he was terribly reluctant) and even then he had his own reasons for helping Tohka. (the novels did a better job of showing this though, as they stated his specific reason for why he wanted to help Tohka in the first place) In fact, even the anime shows that his own drive has taken over and he's now doing helping the girls on his own. He follows Kotori and Reine's instructions because he's not a strategist; when he needs strategy, he (correctly) listens to people better suited. But he's directly ignored Kotori's instructions to stand down and has taken action on his own whenever he's needed too. Though I myself specifically said Shidou is more midway-alpha than alpha, he's a lot more alpha than you're giving him credit for.

Issei has a realistic excuse because of the trauma of his first girlfriend makes him nervous with the other girls at time. Thanks to the girls confronting him about it he is getting better a little at a time but that isn't something that can be shaken off with just a talking to.

Shidou is amazingly more impressive in the Miku arc (particularly volume 7) and the Origami arc (particularly volume 11). Both really show the length he would go to in order to help the girls as well as his understanding of the girls. at times even ignoring Ratatoskr's choice for his own when he was sure his were the better option. They are volume that really show how alpha he can become when needed. He isn't high end Alpha but has the traits to be there.

[kampfer91]

Ichika could have become an alpha type if the girl casts aren't too perfect , in fact , if the author not too focus on the girl casts

To be honest , each girl have traits that a person like , it leads to fandoms and they quarrel each other, cursing the author when he makes more scene for a certain girl . In the end the author chose to keep Ichika with Beta male status , a super dense , indecisive type that i currently dislike .

Date alive and DxD is different though , where main char know everyone feeling and decide thing by himself

[lovetospoon73]

what about kamito kazehaya?

[ImperialFlameGod8190]

Originally Posted by lovetospoon73

what about kamito kazehaya?

I like Kamito but tbh he's a cooler version of Ichika. He's handled his harem horrifically and just like many say Ichika is obsessed with his sister Kamito is a little too obsessed with restia.

[demino_hellsin]

The reason we hate on the guy when he gives mroe screen time to a girl is because we cannot empathize with that girl. Why does she deserve to be with Ichika? I mean sure you have your own best girl and for whatever reason you want your girl to win. But normally you can accept her win with grudging respect because she went through some pretty sick stuff and she deserves to be happy. Like seriously.

With the girls in IS. They're all painted with tragic pasts but that's all background colors. You don't get finer details that give each girl more personality, more endearing traits, more reason to want them to be happy. I know we shouldn't judge like that but that's how harem generally works. All IS throws at you are the girls, their quirks and an overall blurry past that deems you need to create your own idea of exactly how it went down. So generally you sympathize with one girl because you can imagine their tragic past more easily and everyone else just gets your contempt but never grudging respect because you deem where they came from and their worthiness nil.

You rarely ever see the girls do anything for Ichika in a heartfelt way either and just see it as schemes to get in his pants. That is both despicable to some eyes and just plain silliness in everyone else's. This does not boost your respect or appreciation of the opposing faction but just bolsters your hatred of them.

[Tempest35]

I think it's more of, 'why does Ichika deserve to be with her'. But really, not one girl 'deserves' to be with him and vice versa - Ichika doesn't deserve to be with any of them. Which is why I know some people want to have another 'stronger male OCs to take away the harem because 1) Ichika is too weak to defend them in the first place, 'as a man should defend what is considered 'his'', and 2) Ichika just doesn't 'deserve' them. But since our common foe - Izuru - refuses to disclose any real meaningful world-building info beyond just enough for the next girl to be introduced for Ichika, it's hard to come up with a plausible way for some other guy to become an IS pilot. I don't have the patience to come up with a male OC pilot because I'd want him to be as believable as possible, the science of a male pilot that is, so until I figure something out, I won't make one.

Which is why some of us resort to AUs to tell the tale. This is one of the instances where the author is the major stifling element of his own work.

So with that, I'm still waiting on the next set of chapters so I can start proofreading. This weekend will be bad since I'll be traveling to my next duty station for a 6 wk stay for re-class training.

[lovetospoon73]

the problem, ichika been fighting like an IS pilot, instead he should have been fighting like a guy, plus he doesn't have a strong male role model in his life, also his fan club constanly follow him around, how he'll level up as an IS pilot, if his sister & his fan club won't let him fight his own battles

[Trung-t-rung]

The thing is Ichika HAS the potential to become a good or at least interesting MC. The one thing Izuru did wrong is how he lacks a real goal in the story. Almost every MCs in LN/VN/anime/manga... has some kind of ideals, goals or dream to make them an interesting character. These goals/ideals create a force to drive them forward in desperate situation, it creates the drives, the reasons behind every fights, every battles... It could be something simple like "I want to protect my ordinary life" or"I want to protect those who's close to me" to some complicated revenge, salvation/redemption backstory/past. Ichika's past is just full of potential to exploit these stuff, his parents are missing. His sister is too great a figure that it can create a type of inferiority complex, his kidnapping caused her to lose the World Champion titles...There are so many thing we can use from these yet Izuru refused to put any shred of characteristic inside Ichika.

[Oslight]

Ichika does have characteristics; he is the epitome of denseness, but he's also best waifu material.
Cooks, clean, gives great massages etc.

[Trung-t-rung]

Originally Posted by Oslight

Ichika does have characteristics; he is the epitome of denseness, but he's also best waifu material.
Cooks, clean, gives great massages etc.

Shit-tier waifu. Almost every harem MC can cook these days. Ichika couldn't even cross-dress for lesbian play.

[lovetospoon73]

Originally Posted by Oslight

Ichika does have characteristics; he is the epitome of denseness, but he's also best waifu material.
Cooks, clean, gives great massages etc.

well that & the fact he's very nice, literally in every harem the girls usually drool over the MC because of his kindness to a point where they start using slutty tactics to make him feel the same way about either of them

[lovetospoon73]

Originally Posted by Trung-t-rung

The thing is Ichika HAS the potential to become a good or at least interesting MC. The one thing Izuru did wrong is how he lacks a real goal in the story. Almost every MCs in LN/VN/anime/manga... has some kind of ideals, goals or dream to make them an interesting character. These goals/ideals create a force to drive them forward in desperate situation, it creates the drives, the reasons behind every fights, every battles... It could be something simple like "I want to protect my ordinary life" or"I want to protect those who's close to me" to some complicated revenge, salvation/redemption backstory/past. Ichika's past is just full of potential to exploit these stuff, his parents are missing. His sister is too great a figure that it can create a type of inferiority complex, his kidnapping caused her to lose the World Champion titles...There are so many thing we can use from these yet Izuru refused to put any shred of characteristic inside Ichika.

true, but i thought mainly the girls won't let him fight his own battles, beside fighting against M, name times where ichika fought his own battles, without any of the girls or his sister's help in the series?

[lovetospoon73]

i wonder how long until P.T make their move, & kidnap ichika again like they done when he was still a runt?

[XFire]

Originally Posted by Shinji103

I really haven't read/watched enough High School DxD to know either way about that, though as cyberdemon said you don't need to have sex or even kiss to be an alpha.

And Shidou only needed to be coerced at the very beginning, (it's not even like he was terribly reluctant) and even then he had his own reasons for helping Tohka. (the novels did a better job of showing this though, as they stated his specific reason for why he wanted to help Tohka in the first place) In fact, even the anime shows that his own drive has taken over and he's now doing helping the girls on his own. He follows Kotori and Reine's instructions because he's not a strategist; when he needs strategy, he (correctly) listens to people better suited. But he's directly ignored Kotori's instructions to stand down and has taken action on his own whenever he's needed too. Though I myself specifically said Shidou is more midway-alpha than alpha, he's a lot more alpha than you're giving him credit for.

Aha. So that's what it is.


"Alpha", in the way I was using, does not refer to the main characters desire or ability to help or protect the girls, or his proactiveness in doing so. Saying he isn't is not meant to belittle his resolve to defend or shelter those he loves, or defeat evil (or even just the other side). In those terms, both Shidou (who has gone through hell) and Issei (who has gone through heaven, hell, and purgatory and kicked all their asses) would be alpha beyond measure.

"Alpha", in the context I was using, refers to what they do when they get horny.



In all seriousness, though, it refers to who is approaching who and to what extent. Shidou walks in on a girl changing, he runs out while apologizing.
Issei walks in on a girl changing, he gets a nosebleed.
Kazuki walks in on a girl changing, two seconds later they're on the bed kissing.

That's what alpha means here.


In a minimal effort to stay on topic, Ichika walks in on a girl changing, and thinks its a boy.

[demino_hellsin]

An alpha male should be someone comfortable where they are and takes control of the situation. Cosmic butt monkeying aside, a lot of harem protagonists are this. Recent examples are overcompensating. Large harems and useful in battle types aside. I don't think Issei would count for alpha because he practically asks Rias when he's allowed to breath just as Ichika just lies down and let the girls or pretty much anyone walk all over him like lawn.

[ImperialFlameGod8190]

Originally Posted by demino_hellsin

An alpha male should be someone comfortable where they are and takes control of the situation. Cosmic butt monkeying aside, a lot of harem protagonists are this. Recent examples are overcompensating. Large harems and useful in battle types aside. I don't think Issei would count for alpha because he practically asks Rias when he's allowed to breath just as Ichika just lies down and let the girls or pretty much anyone walk all over him like lawn.

Issei isnt alpha because even with his trauma gone he still doesnt make a move. I mean the girls are half naked around him consistently and most of them are begging for the sexytime and yet he wont do anything. (and yes sometimes they interrupt him but thats because he hesistates for so damn long)

[lovetospoon73]

i swear sometimes ichika orimura is like haruo yoshikawa, both clueless & unmanly

[Malicre]

Ichika can't be an alpha male when he only has the hots for his sister, tee hee

[lovetospoon73]

i agree, plus most of his harem are a bunch of pervs