AnimeSuki Forums

revive4563 · 2014-05-30, 10:28

Well, I couldn't sympathize Gon's excessive reaction about the matter of Kite, after all.
But as a story, it is far interesting than if Gon defeat Meruem with Rock-Paper-Rock. I don't know the future but I wish it does not happen.
Maybe Togashi is one of the mangaka who learnt that oddity is necessary to succeed in manga business. I'm certain he is good writer.
Because for example in this genre, if there is no oddity=originality, it is mere copycat of Dragon Ball.
Seriously I believe Attack on Titan succeeded because he is unskillful to draw picture.
Most of mangaka are not able to become into gifted genius like Toriyama or Araki.

btw R.I.P. Pitou

Clarste · 2014-05-30, 14:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Haak

it might have been harsher on Pitou, but i don't think much was gained from character in these final moments that we really needed to know, other than perhaps the tidbit that Gon had power equal to the King (and personally I think that would've been better left ambiguous anyway).

Personally I think the fact that Pitou died happy because of her "love" for the King, contrasted with Gon's despair and hatred, was pretty much the entire point of the scene. This entire arc is about love.

Dengar · 2014-05-30, 21:05

You know, back when this happened in the manga, it turned out to be a huge-ass base breaker. At least on this forum it seems audience reaction is a lot more subdued. Most of them seem to understand how this happened.

I guess the main problem is in "what happens next"

Guardian Enzo · 2014-05-31, 00:47

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar

You know, back when this happened in the manga, it turned out to be a huge-ass base breaker. At least on this forum it seems audience reaction is a lot more subdued. Most of them seem to understand how this happened.

I guess the main problem is in "what happens next"

Base breaker? That must be why H x H was the #8-selling manga in Japan last year without a single new volume.

Dengar · 2014-05-31, 03:35

To elaborate, I saw it happen on a forum where people were speaking English. Apparently Shinobi has experienced something similar.

Guardian Enzo · 2014-05-31, 05:29

That's well and good, and I don't doubt it was a controversial moment. But given the nosebleed ratings you still see the H x H manga get at English-language manga sites, I still wonder if it goes to the level of base-breaker.

When I see hate posts directed at H x H (and I blog it at two sites, so I see plenty) about 98% come as a direct result of people expecting shounen conventions and interpreting what they see through the lens of conventional shounen. People love to bitch, but I don't get the sense a whole lot of them are actually abandoning the ship.

NinjaRealist · 2014-05-31, 08:09

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

People love to bitch

Especially in the randomc comments section

Guardian Enzo · 2014-05-31, 09:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by NinjaRealist

Especially in the randomc comments section

No comment.

SHINOBI-03 · 2014-05-31, 09:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar

To elaborate, I saw it happen on a forum where people were speaking English. Apparently Shinobi has experienced something similar.

More like troll attacks who make fun of the idea of HxH's "supposed" popularity and the hype delivered by fans of it being a different kind of writing and doesn't use the traditional shonen cliches, only to have Togashi uses the "traditional power-up out of nowhere to beat an impossible to beat villain" card and you can tell where this goes from here.

You know what, I'm thankful for the anime. Thankful for my choice of keeping my weekly posts. Because if I didn't so, I'd miss a lot of details and subtle hints along the lines that I sure missed during my first time reading it. Which is how I was able to analyze the transformation a bit more and the conditions met and the result I came up was as you read by yours truly.

Dawnstorm · 2014-05-31, 13:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

When I see hate posts directed at H x H (and I blog it at two sites, so I see plenty) about 98% come as a direct result of people expecting shounen conventions and interpreting what they see through the lens of conventional shounen.

Actually, I'd argue people are viewing this through the wrong shounen convention: I keep seeing Super Seiyan power up, but I'm thinking more of succumb to your inner darkness, aka Naruto releasing the seals on his inner fox. This is not so much a power up, as an imbalance that needs to be addressed. I'm not a fan of the genre, so I'm not very well versed, but I'd think what I saw here isn't that unusual.

Dengar · 2014-05-31, 14:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guardian Enzo

That's well and good, and I don't doubt it was a controversial moment. But given the nosebleed ratings you still see the H x H manga get at English-language manga sites, I still wonder if it goes to the level of base-breaker.

When I see hate posts directed at H x H (and I blog it at two sites, so I see plenty) about 98% come as a direct result of people expecting shounen conventions and interpreting what they see through the lens of conventional shounen. People love to bitch, but I don't get the sense a whole lot of them are actually abandoning the ship.

My experiences were kind of the opposite of that. People were raging because 'mighty Togashi' went 'the conventional shonen route'. Also 'asspull'. Maybe I was hanging out at the wrong forum at the time, but opinions seemed rather 50/50.

Anyway, getting back on topic. If you ask me, this is neither "Classic Super Saiyan" nor "Inner darkness". I view it as a deconstruction of the sudden powerup. It was properly foreshadowed, and at a few points people say "don't use such a power". Usually in Shonen, the hero ends up using it anyway and making it work through sheer willpower. In this case, while techincally it ended up "working", the scene is anything BUT triumphant. It is a most horrible experience to everyone involved (except, ironically, the villain, who dies knowing that this person will never threaten the king).

I've come to view the series as a whole as a deconstruction of many shonen tropes.

Arkeus · 2014-05-31, 14:25

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar

You know, back when this happened in the manga, it turned out to be a huge-ass base breaker. At least on this forum it seems audience reaction is a lot more subdued. Most of them seem to understand how this happened.

I guess the main problem is in "what happens next"

I think a good part of this is the slow update rate and the anime having had the whole thing happening in a single episode.

In this, we are seeing it much more from the lens of Killua who is /horrified/ about what it means for Gon, while in the manga we didn't see Killua's reaction for at once.

Hence, the 'classic power up" complaints, because people were ignoring Pouf being /happy/ about it, and all the prior hints that Gon was /breaking/, not becoming 'better'.

Guardian Enzo · 2014-05-31, 18:59

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar

My experiences were kind of the opposite of that. People were raging because 'mighty Togashi' went 'the conventional shonen route'. Also 'asspull'. Maybe I was hanging out at the wrong forum at the time, but opinions seemed rather 50/50.

How is that the opposite? I think it's pretty much exactly what I said.

Dengar · 2014-05-31, 19:14

I thought you meant to say that people were angry that he -didn't- go the shonen route.

Guardian Enzo · 2014-05-31, 21:30

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dengar

I thought you meant to say that people were angry that he -didn't- go the shonen route.

Well, I guess it's semantics. What I mean is, I think people interpret what he does as if they were seeing it in a conventional shounen, and assume it represents the same thing.

yuki kohaku · 2014-06-01, 00:24

best anime i've ever seen XD

Goty · 2014-06-01, 13:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by amaterasu4

I don't think it was bgm. I think they just started the theme from 0:20 after the chorus

It was bgm, i'm talking about the slower, instrumental version of Hyori Ittai that started playing after Killua thought about Bisky. That's not from the song itself, it's a different version.

Dengar · 2014-06-01, 15:35

Well regardless, this "powerup" gives me the complete opposite emotion than a shonen powerup normally does. It looks horrifying and saddening. (it also looks a bit silly, but things in real life don't always look the way they should either)

ChainLegacy · 2014-06-01, 17:22

I think it was obviously sad (as intended), but I dunno, seeing Pitou basically get one shot was pretty awesome regardless.

Archon_Wing · 2014-06-02, 17:56

Yea, at first I was thinking of asspull powerups, like Togashi tossed a few at the end of Yu Yu Hakusho, but the intent is completely different.

Usually, we have a triumphant feel; that the protagonist has overcome all that is against them and is effectively rewarded with power.

In this case, Gon is rewarded at power but he breaks himself mentally and may have screwed up himself for lord knows how long, while Pitou is the happy one that dies out of loyalty. Shouldn't this be the moment of celebration? Yet it feels like the antagonists are the ones that seem to always get the last laugh.

Also, I can't wait until Pouf gets whatever is coming to him.

2014-05-30, 10:28	Link #4681
revive4563 Senior Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Inside of frog	Well, I couldn't sympathize Gon's excessive reaction about the matter of Kite, after all. But as a story, it is far interesting than if Gon defeat Meruem with Rock-Paper-Rock. I don't know the future but I wish it does not happen. Maybe Togashi is one of the mangaka who learnt that oddity is necessary to succeed in manga business. I'm certain he is good writer. Because for example in this genre, if there is no oddity=originality, it is mere copycat of Dragon Ball. Seriously I believe Attack on Titan succeeded because he is unskillful to draw picture. Most of mangaka are not able to become into gifted genius like Toriyama or Araki. btw R.I.P. Pitou Last edited by revive4563; 2014-05-30 at 16:34. Reason: Attack 'on' Titan :p

2014-06-01, 00:24	Link #4696
yuki kohaku Junior Member Join Date: Jun 2014	best anime i've ever seen XD __________________ im kawaii~

2014-05-30, 21:05	Link #4683
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	You know, back when this happened in the manga, it turned out to be a huge-ass base breaker. At least on this forum it seems audience reaction is a lot more subdued. Most of them seem to understand how this happened. I guess the main problem is in "what happens next"

2014-05-31, 03:35	Link #4685
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	To elaborate, I saw it happen on a forum where people were speaking English. Apparently Shinobi has experienced something similar.

2014-05-31, 19:14	Link #4694
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	I thought you meant to say that people were angry that he -didn't- go the shonen route.

2014-06-01, 15:35	Link #4698
Dengar Kamen Rider Muppeteer Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: Unknown Age: 39	Well regardless, this "powerup" gives me the complete opposite emotion than a shonen powerup normally does. It looks horrifying and saddening. (it also looks a bit silly, but things in real life don't always look the way they should either)

2014-06-01, 17:22	Link #4699
ChainLegacy 廉頗 Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Massachusetts Age: 34	I think it was obviously sad (as intended), but I dunno, seeing Pitou basically get one shot was pretty awesome regardless.