Toradora! - Episode 9 Discussion / Poll

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by KeitaroNagato

Was it just ankle to ankle in volume 4. I'm trying to remember...

Yes, it was. This was much cuter though, so I forgive JC Staff. This time...

Originally Posted by Spring_sakura111

Minorin really showed a lot in this episode. I love thier group more now. They're all so close~ I love every part of this episode and I think it's executed pretty well. Please , no Taiga X Ryuuji. I think they are a cute couple. But if they ended up together , I'd say that it would be too predictable.

Predictability is not bad. Execution is all that matters.

An ending out of left field would be much much worse than an ending that is predictable yet consistent. Look at School Rumble.

Keeping the fans guessing until the very end draws out tension and precludes good storytelling. And this genre is in dire need of good storytelling.


An a slightly random note, I really don't like novel-Taiga compared to anime-Taiga. However, I don't think I'm really supposed to like her. Hopefully she will get much more development and become a bit less selfish...

[frubam]

Originally Posted by Haesslich

Takemoto x Hagu? Since when was THAT possible? She never really seemed to LOOK at Takemoto in that way - whereas she spaced out while looking at Morita an awful lot, and reacted to him while she didn't to Takemoto (getting panicky, getting upset). And Mayama x Ayu was all in the head of a few shippers... especially since he spent EVERY episode that she tried to chase him in turning her down, even telling her to get over him. This is a far cry from the ToraDora situation, where there's at least signs that the two of them are 'in sync' enough that they're quite aware of what the other's thinking... right down to dreaming the same sort of nightmare about having kids together.

True, but it was implied that it could go either way near the end, esp when Takemoto went on that soul searching trip. Even Morita himself subtlely implied that Takemoto was important to her. Hagu probably didn't see Takemoto as a lover at that time, but neither does Taiga and Ryuuji, nor is it implied by them any such relation exists. But we, as the viewer know something is there based upon certain reactions the chars make. My main point was simply that their is no guarantee that an obvious RyuTora pairing is gonna come out of this.

I guess the Mayama/Yamada pairing wasn't as predictable because, as you said, she was turned down on every front, but that still doesn't negate the fact that in dramas such as these, the viewer feels the need to concatenate the main chars in a pairing, and clearly a Mayama/Yamada pairing isn't that far from the generic show pairing style.

I also think the nightmare scene at the beginning could be all that significant. Since it was a horror movie, and Ryuuji and Taiga were watching the same movie, its not far-fetched they'd have the same dream. If that dream was the exact content in the movie, for Taiga, who once thought of Ryuuji as a dog, for her to see him would be understandable, but not so much from Ryuuji's point of view(seeing Taiga as the dog). Then again, if Ryuuji sees Taiga like some abandoned dog on the street he has to take care of, then perhaps....no, let me not go to deep into that.

[Darknemo2000]

Originally Posted by frubam

I've never seen the ZnT anime(except ep 1) nor read the novel myself, and I really don't care to compare them. It's actually annoying to me, since I only know of its crappy reputation, comparing that to Toradora.

So why you are like telling whos better if you do not even know the other character?

Well anyways. ZnT LN is very popular in japan. It is one of the big titles in LN world so you might think it does have something to offer. Just that anime sucked big time doesn't mean LN does.

Toradora LN is also very popular lately. They are pretty much neighbors in terms of LN popularity. Too bad that anime wise toradora is miles ahead, even though done by the same Studio, but thankfully done by a different team.

[Haesslich]

Originally Posted by frubam

True, but it was implied that it could go either way near the end, esp when Takemoto went on that soul searching trip. Even Morita himself subtlely implied that Takemoto was important to her. Hagu probably didn't see Takemoto as a lover at that time, but neither does Taiga and Ryuuji, nor is it implied by them any such relation exists. But we, as the viewer know something is there based upon certain reactions the chars make. My main point was simply that their is no guarantee that an obvious RyuTora pairing is gonna come out of this.

I guess the Mayama/Yamada pairing wasn't as predictable because, as you said, she was turned down on every front, but that still doesn't negate the fact that in dramas such as these, the viewer feels the need to concatenate the main chars in a pairing, and clearly a Mayama/Yamada pairing isn't that far from the generic show pairing style.

I also think the nightmare scene at the beginning could be all that significant. Since it was a horror movie, and Ryuuji and Taiga were watching the same movie, its not far-fetched they'd have the same dream. If that dream was the exact content in the movie, for Taiga, who once thought of Ryuuji as a dog, for her to see him would be understandable, but not so much from Ryuuji's point of view(seeing Taiga as the dog). Then again, if Ryuuji sees Taiga like some abandoned dog on the street he has to take care of, then perhaps....no, let me not go to deep into that.

I've read the manga and seen the show - in neither situation did it ever look like more than a one-sided love from either Ayu or Takemoto; Hagu was close to Takemoto, but at the same time she never got nervous or even appeared to see Takemoto as a man. Hell, even Rika started seeing Mayama that way despite his constant stumblings around her... as Morita's Axe of Truth showed. Hagu was concerned for Takemoto, but that didn't apparently lead to anything romantic - she seemed confused during Episode 24, and even later on... well, with Morita around there was effectively no competition, as even Takemoto himself had to concede towards the end.

Mayama and Ayu was even worse - he kept pushing her away, and she kept chasing in a futile manner... and at no time did I see Mayama's overprotectiveness translating into anything romantic. He likes her almost as a sister, and as a very cherished friend, which is why he spent as much time trying to keep Nomiya away from her as he did trying to pursue Rika. And the nail in THAT particular shipping group's coffin should be episode 24 of the first season, where he encourages Takemoto to play the hero's role for both Hagu and Ayu, the way he himself did during the last festival in episode 14... which had the unintentional side-effect of encouraging Yamada in her pursuit. Which was pointed out to him at some length by Hanamoto-sensei later on.

About the closest relationship in H&C which reflects the situation here would probably be Nomiya and Yamada, of all people - she's busy pursuing someone else, as Taiga is pursuing the oblivious(?) Kitamura who also responded with a gentle/oblivious rejection during the confession. The main difference here is that "Nomiya" (Ryuuji) is after someone else as well, but at the same time there's a bit of closeness developing between the two as they share quiet conversation and parts of themselves that they haven't with others (Nomiya with the ferris wheel in Episode 19).

The original scene in the novel had Ryuuji as the Dog, and Taiga was the mate/master. Here, they added dog-ears for cuteness points, as far as I can tell, but I don't recall her saying something about thinking she was a dog in HER dream - only that she too had been 'with' Ryuuji, which was a fate she wanted to avoid... ergo the bet on the 'who gets hooked up first'. There's no guarantee of a pairing here, except for the heavy-handed hinting that the director's engaged in, for whatever reason. What Taiga and Ryuuji DO have is an unconscious, casual emotional intimacy as well as an easy acceptance of one another... which may provide the subtext behind all the people declaring Taiga and Ryuuji the Chosen Couple. Well, that and the fact they're already sort of a family unit as-is, thanks to how Yasuko and Ryuuji have both unquestioningly taken Taiga into their private lives.

[Zippicus]

I look at it like this. First we have Ami who might like Ryuuji who likes Minori who is a bit of an enigma at this point. Then we have Taiga who likes Kitamura who probably likes the student council president, at the very least he's not into Taiga anymore. With the main two characters love interests gently but firmly axed that narrows the field down to a possible triangle. While I can't say Ami is out of the running yet, Ryuuji hasn't really shown any real interest in her beyond normal human relations. Pretty much everything that's happened so far as been pushing Ryuuji and Taiga closer together. Ryuuji just hasn't figured it out yet and Taiga is having suspicions but is still in denial.

[Solafighter]

"Boing.. Boing.. Boing.."

Black and hairy thing....


What an episode!


I think, Minorin and Kuishida have a plan, to bring Taiga and her do together, or something like that.

[Spring_sakura111]

Originally Posted by xminori-chanxx

I defidently want taiga and ruujii to end up together in the end. But i think it would be really intereting if Ryuujii went out with either Ami or Minorin first> Then while he is going out with one of them he realizes it dosn't feel right, and taiga stops comeing over or something along those lines. And then he finally breaks up with ami or minorin and then he finds taiga and is all like "I love you" XD just a fantasy i played out in my head. And that way the minorinxryuujii fans would be satisfied (cause that is most likely who they would pair him with). And in the end taigaxryuujii fans would be happy. Idk it was just a thought, i think it would be cool if that happened. x3

We need more twists if that happens. But I would want to see more Ami X Ryuuji~

[KeitaroNagato]

Originally Posted by Darknemo2000

So why you are like telling whos better if you do not even know the other character?

Well anyways. ZnT LN is very popular in japan. It is one of the big titles in LN world so you might think it does have something to offer. Just that anime sucked big time doesn't mean LN does.

Toradora LN is also very popular lately. They are pretty much neighbors in terms of LN popularity. Too bad that anime wise toradora is miles ahead, even though done by the same Studio, but thankfully done by a different team.

Good to see you!!!

Originally Posted by Spring_sakura111

We need more twists if that happens. But I would want to see more Ami X Ryuuji~

I've reread volume 4 (hopefully Baka-Tsuki will have volume 5 before next episode ^^.... They are so great to translate the Lightnovels, and they are so good at it. It shows how efficient and professional they are I do recommend everyone to check their Website, they have so many projects, and they are the best !!! ) and comparing to the character development with Ami in this episode, she was more herself then the her alter-ego "Ami-Chan". Surprising, I was amazed how dead-on her character was portrait, straight out from the LightNovel (thanks Baka-Tsuki, your team are wonderful with the translation), it was flawless, exact from it. Yet, just like the lightnovel and this episode, I feel that Ami have feelings for Ryuuji. Even though she loves tormenting Taiga about Ryuuji, and teasing Ryuuji at the odd moments, she still is happy that they are her friends, specially Ryuuji. She knows that he is naive how Taiga feels about him, and how stupid Taiga not letting her true self to admit her feelings to Ryuuji, so she it taking advantage of the situation. Thus, by doing so, she is falling for Ryuuji. The more she intervene with them, it seems the more she is drawn closer to Ryuuji. Since she is the type to get and have the best, Ryuuji fits perfectly in her world.

[Bathory Area]

Awesome ep! Taiga is so much funny.Seaweed Ghost? The episode brought some insight to Minori’s character. She has proven not to be the airheaded person she seems to be, someone who is oblivious to significant occurances around her.

[xminori-chanxx]

Originally Posted by Spring_sakura111

We need more twists if that happens. But I would want to see more Ami X Ryuuji~

Yeah i'm more of a split between minorin and taiga. I like ami to though. If it ever happened that he went out with her, i think we would be in for some good laughs sense taiga hates ami XD

[BigJimmy]

Originally Posted by xminori-chanxx

Yeah i'm more of a split between minorin and taiga. I like ami to though. If it ever happened that he went out with her, i think we would be in for some good laughs sense taiga hates ami XD

A date with Ryujii and Ami would lead to wherever they went as a smoking crater and Taiga being slapped with a lenghty prison sentence for Obliteration of Public Property and quite possibly some anti-terror stuff thrown in for good measure.

[stormy001_M1A2]

Originally Posted by xminori-chanxx

Yeah i'm more of a split between minorin and taiga. I like ami to though. If it ever happened that he went out with her, i think we would be in for some good laughs sense taiga hates ami XD

Ami stand a little chance, Taiga and Minorin already caught Ryuji's mind. I even doubt if Ami go naked in front of him for seduction, Ryuji will consider her seriously.

[Haesslich]

Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2

Ami stand a little chance, Taiga and Minorin already caught Ryuji's mind. I even doubt if Ami go naked in front of him for seduction, Ryuji will consider her seriously.

Notice that Ryuuji isn't chasing Minorin because of her looks, even though he finds her cute in her waitress uniform; he's wanting her because of her sunny disposition and cheerful personality, which charmed him and makes a hell of a contrast with his rather serious disposition most of the time. That's the same seriousness which makes him feel compelled to take care of the cast-out tiger who happens to be his neighbour, and makes him want to support her as he sees her trying so hard despite her handicaps (both physical and emotional).

[stormy001_M1A2]

Ryuji sees Ami as an accidental muse of some sort. As he himself admitted, he never get bored with Ami around and she did inspire him in some ways he did not notice.

[Haesslich]

Originally Posted by stormy001_M1A2

Ryuji sees Ami as an accidental muse of some sort. As he himself admitted, he never get bored with Ami around and she did inspire him in some ways he did not notice.

All I'm saying is that physical charms may baffle him, as we saw in previous episodes, but they're not a serious consideration when it comes to his choosing relationships or people to pursue. Ami may keep him from being bored, but he's not as comfortable around her as he is around Taiga or Minori... well, now; before he'd just freeze up around Minorin the way Taiga does around Yusaku.

[RogerOsk]

I think a lot of people are getting too hung up on the end pairing. It's the execution that matters, the journey to it, not just the end. If we get a gradual, developed, and satisfying end with the two main characters, is that somehow worse then an ending out of left field to satisfy some fandom pairing, even though it's less "predictable"? This isn't some gag manga or soap opera.

Anyways, Ami is quickly becoming my favourite character. Someone did a great writeup here, too.

[BigJimmy]

Originally Posted by RogerOsk

I think a lot of people are getting too hung up on the end pairing. It's the execution that matters, the journey to it, not just the end. If we get a gradual, developed, and satisfying end with the two main characters, is that somehow worse then an ending out of left field to satisfy some fandom pairing, even though it's less "predictable"? This isn't some gag manga or soap opera.

TvTropes has an answer for everything!

[Voitan]

Originally Posted by Haesslich

All I'm saying is that physical charms may baffle him, as we saw in previous episodes, but they're not a serious consideration when it comes to his choosing relationships or people to pursue. Ami may keep him from being bored, but he's not as comfortable around her as he is around Taiga or Minori...

Hard to say, he always speaks out his opinion about Ami's behavior and never hesitates to decline her advances. So in a way it's easier to act around her, but yeah, not exactly comfortable either.

[k2000k]

The foot rubbing the back incident is very indicative of the type of relationship that is going on. Especially concerning Ryuuji. I mean, how many peopel would you let put their feet on your back? The fact that while Taiga is doing so, illicenting no real response from Ryuuji, clearly shows the comfort level that has developed between the two. Though it is a bit dissapointing that he will probably pass up on Ami.

[frubam]

Originally Posted by Haesslich

Notice that Ryuuji isn't chasing Minorin because of her looks, even though he finds her cute in her waitress uniform; he's wanting her because of her sunny disposition and cheerful personality, which charmed him and makes a hell of a contrast with his rather serious disposition most of the time.

You make it sound like he was looking for the aspects that was absent within his physical self, which is kinda interesting to think about. I wonder if the image he has of Minorin is one which he desires himself.