Dating

[Pocky Yoshi]

Very good points of views from you both. There's a few flaws within them, but that's what makes us human. I know I have been just commenting people's point of views, so I guess I'll give mine on dating.

I'm very naive, quirky, optimistic, inquisitive, easygoing and nice.
But I can also be a bit childish, stubborn, indecisive and too forgiving.

My stage in romance.........single. Though many thoughts appear in my head like "It would be nice to fall in love and spend all my time with my beloved." But at the same time, I also have thoughts such as, "I'll just live my young bachelor life to the fullest." But, I'm gonna try to see what happens to me. Hopefully, everything will work out lol.

[cheyannew]

Originally Posted by NamuSkull

Yes, my parents raised me right.

*arches a delicate brow* So, those of us who chose to have sex prior to marriage weren't raised right?

Tsk tsk... unwise words in a forum of this size, methinks....

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by cheyannew

*arches a delicate brow* So, those of us who chose to have sex prior to marriage weren't raised right?

Tsk tsk... unwise words in a forum of this size, methinks....

I was thinking if I should play the devils advocate again or not, good to know someone came first

I don't mean to be judgmental or anything, if someone wants to believe it's better to regard sex as something exclusive to married life that's their prerogative. I personally believe that sex doesn't have to be something associated with marriage (I'm not even very fond of marriage itself anyways) and I like to think, like others have said here, that love and sex are two distinct and separate things that do go very well together but are not dependent on each other (note however that I'm not particularly found of having sex with someone I don't care about but don't judge those who do, it's their right imho).

[cheyannew]

Originally Posted by Dextro

I was thinking if I should play the devils advocate again or not, good to know someone came first

I don't mean to be judgmental or anything, if someone wants to believe it's better to regard sex as something exclusive to married life that's their prerogative. I personally believe that sex doesn't have to be something associated with marriage (I'm not even very fond of marriage itself anyways) and I like to think, like others have said here, that love and sex are two distinct and separate things that do go very well together but are not dependent on each other (note however that I'm not particularly found of having sex with someone I don't care about but don't judge those who do, it's their right imho).

I agree; it's been said before in this thread that sex & love don't always go hand in hand (which is up to the individuals involved, of course), but it seems like (pardon my possibly incorrect assumption) most of the forum feels caring about/loving the person they have sex with adds something to it.
TBH it seems like nearly everyone on the forum is on the "no sex w/o love" bandwagon, which has its merits (usually you know your partner better, there's fidelity, less chance of STDs etc).

[Kaijo]

Sex is a physical bond, whether you like it or not. You do get closer to the person you have sex with. Generally speaking, a healthy committed relationship has all the bonds in place: physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual. The more of these that are lacking, the less likely the relationship will hold together, statistically speaking.

In short, if you don't match up to the person you are currently seeing in any of these areas, the less satisfying the relationship will be. Although just having a couple of these is enough to hook two people up, one or the other won't see the truth until further down the road, when the differences become too much to handle.

Someone I knew once, made the comparison to a piece of tape. It's able to bond to something, but after repeated uses, it becomes less and less able to stick to something. The more sex one has, the less of a bond it becomes for someone. Having only had sex a few times myself, I don't think I will again until I honestly meet a good enough person, so it means more. I really loved each of the two women I was with (I learned a bit by the third, and we only fooled around). Part of me wishes I had waited before, but the young do impulsive and stupid things, heh.

[cheyannew]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Sex is a physical bond, whether you like it or not. You do get closer to the person you have sex with. Generally speaking, a healthy committed relationship has all the bonds in place: physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual. The more of these that are lacking, the less likely the relationship will hold together, statistically speaking.

In short, if you don't match up to the person you are currently seeing in any of these areas, the less satisfying the relationship will be. Although just having a couple of these is enough to hook two people up, one or the other won't see the truth until further down the road, when the differences become too much to handle.

Really? I'd be interested in seeing these statistics; can you provide a few links to the studies you've used to back this up?

[Dextro]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Sex is a physical bond, whether you like it or not. You do get closer to the person you have sex with. Generally speaking, a healthy committed relationship has all the bonds in place: physical, mental, emotional, and spiritual. The more of these that are lacking, the less likely the relationship will hold together, statistically speaking.

Carefull there... Generalizations aren't usually good things to bring into a discussion since their just that: generalizations and the fact is that it's very rare for someone to be exactly the average person since everyone's different.

Originally Posted by Arbitres

Oh well... I was hoping to be Devil's advocate. Guess not. How wicked. How cruel.

Damn that dude must play some serious legal fees since everybody wants to defend him... I should start sending him the bills

[whitepearl]

Originally Posted by NamuSkull

What RadiantBeam said. As for sex, save it for marriage. Yes, my parents raised me right.

Don't condescend others who had sex before marriage.

[yoropa]

Originally Posted by Kaijo

Sex is a physical bond, whether you like it or not.

Sex is a physical act that is formed out of both physical and non-physical bonds, and will result in physical and non-physical bonds.

Here's my logic behind that statement:

Before sex can occur, there needs to be a bond between the people. Physical attachment is one aspect, but the man and woman must be comfortable with each other enough before sex can happen (unless it's like a one-night stand thing or something like that). That requires trust, which is not a physical bond. After sex, the bond has changed significantly, both physical and non-physical aspects of it.

Now of course I'm still a virgin so maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about when I discuss this (since this is solely just from observation on the subject) and I'm probably just stylizing this to my vision of what sex should be rather than what it is, but that's how I view the matter.

[RadiantBeam]

Originally Posted by NamuSkull

Yes, my parents raised me right.

I don't think it's really a question of being raised right. If anything, I'd say the whole "sex before or after marriage" debate is really one left to the individual's personal opinion. Sure, how you're raised and what your parents say to you would play a role, but in the end it's really your choice of when you have sex and who you have it with.

[0utf0xZer0]

Originally Posted by yoropa

Sex is a physical act that is formed out of both physical and non-physical bonds, and will result in physical and non-physical bonds.

Here's my logic behind that statement:

Before sex can occur, there needs to be a bond between the people. Physical attachment is one aspect, but the man and woman must be comfortable with each other enough before sex can happen (unless it's like a one-night stand thing or something like that). That requires trust, which is not a physical bond. After sex, the bond has changed significantly, both physical and non-physical aspects of it.

Now of course I'm still a virgin so maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about when I discuss this (since this is solely just from observation on the subject) and I'm probably just stylizing this to my vision of what sex should be rather than what it is, but that's how I view the matter.

This is a large part of the reason I haven't asked my girlfriend about sex yet. I've got no problems with pre-marital sex, but I feel that it would significantly tighten the bonds between us, especially given my girlfriend's personality type (extremely shy). Aas much as I like the girl, I don't know her well enough yet to say that I strongly believe the relationship will work out long term, and I don't want to do anything just yet that could make a break up messy. I guess I'm just the cautious type?

(The other part of the reason I haven't asked is simply because she's shy and I don't think she really wants me talking about that kind of thing yet regardless of the fact we've been going out for a few months.)

[Kaijo]

Originally Posted by cheyannew

Really? I'd be interested in seeing these statistics; can you provide a few links to the studies you've used to back this up?

Most you won't find online, but you can get some decent info on wikipedia, if you look up human bonding and intimate relationships: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intimate_relationship

If you really want to look into the matter, scroll down to the references and look up the books and studies at the bottom of the wikipedia page. In particular, I'd recommend the following:

Miller, R. S., Perlman, D., & Brehm, S. S. (2007). Intimate Relationships (4th ed.). Toronto, ON: McGraw-Hill.

Current research by John Gottman and his colleagues enable them to predict with 93% accuracy which relationships will last and which will not, of which the above factors play a part.

But it's also logical deduction: the more two people are on the same wave length, the more likely they'll remain together. Humanity has a history of disliking differences in people, ostracizing them for it, preferring to hang in groups of similar and like-minded people. The logical follow on is that people tend to get along better with those who are similar and like-minded in relationships as well.

Physical - one partner likes a lot of sex and touching, and the other doesn't. That's going to cause friction because one person will feel compelled, while the other feels like they aren't getting their needs fulfilled.

Mental - one is learned scientist, while the other is dumb as a doorknob. That's going to cause friction, because one will think the other too dumb and the other too arrogant.

Emotional - one needs a lot of support and attention, while the the other doesn't need much. Like the physical, one person will feel like the other is too clingy, while the other will feel like their partner is too distant and thus they aren't getting their needs fulfilled.

Spiritual - One is a Christian and the other is a Muslim. How do you reconcile your beliefs? What do you teach the children (if any)?

In short, the more friction in the relationship, the more issues it will have. I shouldn't have to say this by now, but this is only generally speaking; there ARE exceptions to most rules. But it's up to each person if they want to gamble on the small chance, or on the greater chance.

Granted, you can't tell someone who is "in love" that they will have issues because of differences, because they are "in love" and won't want to listen to it. Just something to keep in mind.

[Pocky Yoshi]

Whoa, um that little comment of "my parents raised me right" strikes everyone silly? Okays, I'll answer thy questions.

Originally Posted by cheyannew

*arches a delicate brow* So, those of us who chose to have sex prior to marriage weren't raised right?
Tsk tsk... unwise words in a forum of this size, methinks....

Sometimes, I prefer to be blunt and honest. Why beat around a bush? Unless it's one of those "situations", then I'll be tactful. I'm just a harmless poster with an opinion.
Besides, do you consider yourself raised right? Because, I think you are a good person. But then again, I don't really know much about ya. So my opinion on you is neutral.
But, you can change it

Originally Posted by whitepearl

Don't condescend others who had sex before marriage.

Um....eh? I don't really care when anyone has sex. I don't care if you've had it at 13 years old lol. If you had sex with "the one for you", then it's okay.
I'm pretty sure some of you were with a "special one" who was curious about doing it together. Anyways if you had sex before marriage, that's your beef. Not mine. If it's a lustful relationship that revolves around sex, I don't care. As long as it doesn't involve me lol

Originally Posted by RadiantBeam

I don't think it's really a question of being raised right. If anything, I'd say the whole "sex before or after marriage" debate is really one left to the individual's personal opinion. Sure, how you're raised and what your parents say to you would play a role, but in the end it's really your choice of when you have sex and who you have it with.

My parents may have raised me right, but I can make decisions on my own. I just decided to save myself for "the right one for me". If I have sex before marriage, then I'm gonna have to be responsible for it. A relationship without sex until marriage just means that I will say what's great about her and what's bad about her than just "she's so beautiful and nice". But, a woman can change a man lol. So this makes me more picky of who I'll choose to be "the one for me".


Honestly, I do not think I'm better than anyone. But if I come off as that, my bad. The way I treat a relationship is: What do you have for me? And what can I give you in return? And will we get along despite what happens?

I have times when I want to be pampered. But then again, I am mostly content with the thought of it. So pampering me will make me feel odd. I'd rather use my jacket to protect my girl's new shoes from water than mine. I can be selfish, but I have a stubborn personality to never ever put me first and everyone else last. However, there will be times I have to be selfish in certain situations.

[whitepearl]

If you don't know much about others, especially those who may have decided to engage in sex before marriage or sex with the wrong person, why make a judgment that they weren't "raised right?"

And what makes you think YOU were raised right? Someone named you the authority to judge?

Um....eh? I don't really care when anyone has sex. I don't care if you've had it at 13 years old lol. If you had sex with "the one for you", then it's okay.

Why couldn't you have said that originally?

The way you worded your post, it looked like you were talking down to everyone—that's what being condescending means. It's a trait no one likes. Why else would three separate posters react the way they did?

Thank you for clearing things up.

[cheyannew]

Originally Posted by NamuSkull

Whoa, um that little comment of "my parents raised me right" strikes everyone silly? Okays, I'll answer thy questions.


Sometimes, I prefer to be blunt and honest. Why beat around a bush? Unless it's one of those "situations", then I'll be tactful. I'm just a harmless poster with an opinion.
Besides, do you consider yourself raised right? Because, I think you are a good person. But then again, I don't really know much about ya. So my opinion on you is neutral.
But, you can change it

Thankfully, I do not feel the need to change anyone's opinions of me, I am who I am, and if someone can't handle that, then it's their issue, not mine

However, how I was "raised" would have ended up with me beating the crap out of my kids,and being an all around waste of oxygen. I rebelled (completely) against how I was "raised" by the time I hit 13. Yes, I had pre-marital sex, and enjoyed it immensely. Hells, I didn't legally marry my husband till over a year after we'd handfasted, and our son had been born.
I'm all for people sticking to their guns, more power to them, but as mentioned in the post above, it was the way it was worded that set hackles up. There's being blunt/honest/not beating around the bush, and there's being condescending

[Samari]

Originally Posted by yoropa

Sex is a physical act that is formed out of both physical and non-physical bonds, and will result in physical and non-physical bonds.

Here's my logic behind that statement:

Before sex can occur, there needs to be a bond between the people. Physical attachment is one aspect, but the man and woman must be comfortable with each other enough before sex can happen (unless it's like a one-night stand thing or something like that). That requires trust, which is not a physical bond. After sex, the bond has changed significantly, both physical and non-physical aspects of it.

Now of course I'm still a virgin so maybe I have no idea what I'm talking about when I discuss this (since this is solely just from observation on the subject) and I'm probably just stylizing this to my vision of what sex should be rather than what it is, but that's how I view the matter.

I think you're making this more complicated than it actually is.

Originally Posted by 0utf0xZer0

This is a large part of the reason I haven't asked my girlfriend about sex yet. I've got no problems with pre-marital sex, but I feel that it would significantly tighten the bonds between us, especially given my girlfriend's personality type (extremely shy). Aas much as I like the girl, I don't know her well enough yet to say that I strongly believe the relationship will work out long term, and I don't want to do anything just yet that could make a break up messy. I guess I'm just the cautious type?

(The other part of the reason I haven't asked is simply because she's shy and I don't think she really wants me talking about that kind of thing yet regardless of the fact we've been going out for a few months.)

You've been going out for a few months and you still haven't hit it? Just kidding. Everyone has their own perspective on sex. I don't think I could go more than 3 months in a relationship without having sex.

[yoropa]

Originally Posted by Samari

I think you're making this more complicated than it actually is.

I don't think me saying sex is more than just physical lust is making it more complicated than it is.

[Samari]

Originally Posted by yoropa

I don't think me saying sex is more than just physical lust is making it more complicated than it is.

Where did you say that exact statement? Because even that would have been far less complicated than your "breakdown".

[Samari]

Originally Posted by Arbitres

Come on. Don't be nitpicky now. Just take Yoropa's word for it. As he should for yours.

Final question for a while: what is considered flirtatious? In and out of a relationship. I would also like to know what is 'too thick' or 'too shallow sounding'.

Some would disagree but I think flirting has the possibility of making a relationship work. Which is why I'm interested.

As far as the "in" a relationship part, do you mean flirting with people other than the person you're currently dating?

[Kafriel]

Flirting outside a relationship: throwing hints around like Santa, handing out dinner/movies/park invitations, and, of course, active flirting (which I won't analyze because I doubt it works these days).
Flirting inside a relationship: taking the initiative of complimenting your partner on...whatever, and active flirting, which works fine in THIS case, because there's a lot less room for misunderstanding.

I would also like to know what is 'too thick' or 'too shallow sounding'.

Know what would look good on you? Me. <- This is shallow, as well as all the jackass lines people use for one night stands.
Hey Mary, we've been dating for a week now, so I was thinking...wanna move in with me? <- This is deep, same goes for over the top presents, or anything that involves meddling in other people's business more than you should.

Some would disagree but I think flirting has the possibility of making a relationship work.

You're right. I disagree