[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[IvUaN]

My only thought is that Ryukishi is brain-washing our minds.

Also guys remember you can't trust everything you see, things may be true depending the way you see them, and we still have to wait for next episode.

Spoiler for Bern":

For example, this Bernkastel "villain" plot is amazing (actually its killing me), but no matter what I just can't believe it, nor I'm going to, still Ryukishi got me there , now I just don't know what is what anymore.

Still too early to believe anything and anyone, we still have 1-3 episodes to go.

[Used Can]

By the way, how many characters have never had their deaths stated in red? I can only think of Battler and Jessica.

In addition to that, the only characters who have never died in the first twilight are Battler and Nanjo.

I wonder if there's something from this that can be used.

Originally Posted by Kamar

Spoiler for Woot, some meta world!:

Battler and Beato appear, watching. Battler looks sort of happy/relaxedish, and compares the mood/tea/etc to the one Renove creates with his treats. Beato mutters something. Battler tries to tease her into responding with the idea of tea. he tries to put a cup of tea in her hand, but she says No. Then there is this line.



Trans please, its a bit of a clusterf___ in the translation and I need mah BatBeato interactions :3

Anyways, Battler still tries to help her drink, helping her hold it and moving it to her mouth. She drinks just a bit. Then there is a line about trying to kill each other with red and blue every day, which to him is in the dim and distant past already. Then "Even the thing to make the �c�c intention to say nothing of killing one another commuted is difficult with [beato] today. "
All that is left is tea to drink.

He asks her if the tea is good. But she doesn't respond, although he doesn't expect her to. He gets frustrated, not mad, looking, and asks if its another north wind blah blah blah to make him depressed. She doesn't respond. He says something about the condition being all crazy because of 'that appearance'.

No response. >_< face Battler, then he asks her to laugh at "baka" for being caught by her soon. No reaction. He asks her to laugh like the her drinking tea and cackling with Natsuhi.

No response. He asks even for...some other laugh? Hu thing?

"But that child will never laugh like that again" Bern appears.

Battler says not to take deny her ability to laugh again in front of Beato. Bern taunts him somehow? Something related to him or her saying something in red? He refuses. There is a line about not being able to read the face(his face?) in front of Beato. Then

"You have my blessing."

Battler is confused....then so am I, cuz I don't know what "[Beato] is wins by that appearance [nanoha] and you and consequential [dakarayo] of [takarakoso]. " means, which is the next thing Bern says. Whatever if means it pisses Battler off. Bern talks about how the last game was a torture game for Beato, and killed her soul, leaving her a doll? Battler asks if she is saying he did this to her. She says something about things being decided victory or defeat, and him being depressed either way? I think? Then...I think she says he won but the game didn't end? Battler asks why. Bern indicates the fetter, the Rule that LD made. That yielding/resigning doesn't end the game.

She starts talking about when he yielded, and she supported him, although he didn't seem to perceive it(or maybe just not perceive it as help). Bern says she helped him with an advantageous development and a hint. She asks if he remembers. He tentatively considers that he may be supported by her, whether he realizes it or not.

Bern says the LD supports Beato the same way. And next time, Beato was the one yielding. So, LD supported her in a way that kept her from yielding. The fetter. She played, and was saved by the thing that did not forgive resigning. Battler looks uncomfortable, and understand that LD doesn't care how it 'saves' her. Bern continues.

She says the game started with two people. She asks if either resigns, admitting defeat, or win by checkmate. LD crushed Beato's ability to resign. So she can only lose through defeat. Bern praises it as amazing support. (God I hate Bern)

Battler tries to think through this. He considers the ramifications of playing the game. He also thinks about how he and Beato both struggled for victory, fighting their best. The game reached...something?...every time, because they tried their best. Then, Beato recognized defeat, wanting him to end the game, and end everything. So Bern is correct. Beato became a corpse because of him. But it was something they both hoped for.

"Our matches are already settled. but the game doesn't end. I was entrusted with Beato...I win quickly, and the game ends." (I think this is right, had to de-gibberish stuff)

Bern says nothing.

He continues, saying that the game continues as nothing but nightmare and torture for Beato, until a true checkmate is given, and the game ends with a true meaning. Beato must be given tranquil sleep. He keeps fighting for that. But eternal torture ...something... advances the game and Beato continues. To make them sleep peacefully, the sort of feeling to wring the neck with floss silk.

He talks about the trivial end of the game, Beato's resignation. He talks about the end of the fight, and returning to the family. It seems like he thinks he could return now, but won't because it would leave Beato to LD's fetter? He hates the game. (I lol'd, the translator kept going "It hates it. It hates the Game" gollum style)

Bern acts somewhat condescending, saying What? and asking him if he suddenly wanted to use discretion when he saw Beato's painful expression as he approached the truth. That is is nice to "go easy on someone" out of love. Or maybe he only has to let Beato, his opponent, win. She finished up with a taunt about Ange.

Battler looks angry, and keeps pausing as he speaks. He says he will return for Ange. Then, either he or Bern (move your mouth when you speak Bern >;o) says something along the lines of "even so....feel pity for Beato". Then, someone says

"Kill the witch tightly" whatever the hell that babble means. There is a lot of ........... of silence. I think it was Beato that said it, since Battler seems pissed that it was said in front of Beato's coma self.

Evil Bern grin, and her saying that his purpose is to kill her. That he was begged to kill her. And said..uh...gibberish. Then she comments that when a fingernail is peeled off, its better to do it quickly. Someone who does it timidly is horrible to be against/have do it. She asks something about torture, with a Hu in there.

Battler is silent. Bern looks at him, still looking kind of..uh..evil, and tells him to kill quickly if there is benevolence, "Kill". Battler suddenly responds, "Speak for yourself. I'll decide how to perform the last rites for (this fellow). You and the witch named Lamba Delta are unrelated. I (will? )kill."

Bern comments that it is nice if that intention remains unchanged., because she is betting on him. She asks if that's nice. Then, this:



As always, clearer translation would be great ;3
I'll break this up here, still continuing, just thought I'd let you guys read through what I've got so far here ;3

Battler can be as fickle as Beato when he wants to. Hell!

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Sterling01

Yeah... I didn't get why that was needed.

I assume Bern wanted to make clear to Battler what was the role of Erika in this game, even though she is really disturbing at times (and I just reached Chapter 8, so I probably didn't even reach any real batshit moment).

Claiming she is a detective in red, it means her purpose is really to find the truth. As result, it states clearly she isn't disrupting the game needlessly, but rather pushing facts and reasonings...
Well, that's how I considered this in red.

[blitz1/2]

Bern is just harsh on Battler and for his own good too. You can label her a villain if u want, but she is really the ally that battler needs.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

Bern is just harsh on Battler and for his own good too. You can label her a villain if u want, but she is really the ally that battler needs.

Riiiiiight.

Spoiler for pic:

"Not evil". "Just harsh on Battler".

Riiiiiiight.

[Sterling01]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

Bern is just harsh on Battler and for his own good too. You can label her a villain if u want, but she is really the ally that battler needs.

Spoiler for Ep 5:

She rips out Natsuhi's heart and then stomps on it

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by blitz1/2

Bern is just harsh on Battler and for his own good too. You can label her a villain if u want, but she is really the ally that battler needs.

Hmm... it's hard to say. She certainly has helped him in her own way, but before that, she's having fun. In the end, she doesn't really care about what happens to him, as long as she herself doesn't end up trapped in Lambda's game. Even so, it isn't as if she isn't enjoying all the things that are happening.

I don't think you can say she's an actual ally. She's very fickle.

Originally Posted by Sterling01

Spoiler for Ep 5:

She rips out Natsuhi's heart and then stomps on it

I've got nothing against the summer princess, but that gives Bern a +5 from me.

[Volcanic]

Originally Posted by Sterling01

Spoiler for Ep 5:

She rips out Natsuhi's heart and then stomps on it

Woohoo. xDDD

This game...wow. These really aren't answer arcs, not at all. Luckily I think Core Arcs is spreading as a fan nickname xD

[MeoTwister5]

I found a local store who will import this for me a slightly lesser cost than ordering online. Should arrive in 3-4 weeks.

However I ended up downloading the damn thing from the torrent anyway so... yeah...

I'll have a legal copy anyway. Hoping the AGTH and Atlas can do well enough for me. Gonna start the mindfucking again later.

[Kamar]

Spoiler for Meta world Woohoo! part 2:

Bern says something along the lines of him not being forgiven if he abandons the game. Battler says he already knows that. She asks/confirms? him knowing the goal of LD. She wants him to lose the will to fight just as much, so that all that is left is two lifeless dolls and a destabilized world. This worries Bern. Battler doesn't really care about their situation, but he won't throw away the game, because it would be failing in his responsibility in the fight with Beato.

Bern seems satisfied. She asks if Beato if she can be killed without hesitation, I think. No reaction. Battler seems to agree to do it, although he seems bothered by the idea that there is no way to know if Beato was relieved or wounded by this. It seems to concern him a good deal, despite his assurance.

Back to the Meta-world frame over Natsuhi and Beatrice. Bern appears, and comments on the Beatrice in the game that is safe and drinking tea with Natsuhi. Battler kind of does his aaa thing, then denies Beatrice, saying she is another of Natsuhi's delusions, and that it is merely how LD, the game master, chose to interpret the scene.

There is a line about something and loveless and not seeing something, the Bern denies Beatrice with reasoning. There is the broken glass sound, and meta-Beato looks weak and mutter/groans as the words of truth hit her. Battler immediately says the reasoning is right, but not to say it in front of Beato. Bern says the result is the same no matter where it is said, because it is the world of Beato. Battler then reasons out that there might be an unknown theoretical Beatrice sitting there drinking tea, because there is not red limit on this point in time's number of people. Bern seems slightly annoyed, but agrees that he is right. He continues with this line of reasoning, saying that in the end the Beato there cannot be denied.

Bern considers this, saying "Ah, Schrodinger's Cat theory...but this can't pass..."
Then, she gets epic troll face, and destroys it with the red text. Natsuhi sits alone, drinking tea as the wind blows.

Blood drip effect/image, and Beato groans. Another fantasy broken, she edges closer to death. The fight to make Beato rest is that kind of brutal thing. Some Battler thoughts now. Bern has compared his fight to torture, slowly peeling off a fingernail. He realizes that if it has to be removed, it is his last kindness to do the least pain possible to Beato.

He realizes the mercilessness of the red text. Natsuhi sits alone in the garden now. The observer has only her, now. It is undeniable now that Beatrice was not drinking tea with Natsuhi.

Battler calls the red truth a edged tool, and Bern says nothing. He continues, saying it is the tool of...something, and the arms for a counteroffensive. Bern says that he understands, and asks what of it.

Battler gets a little madder looking, and tells her not to use it. She says nothing. He says you only use an edged tool when it is necessary. That it is a lethal weapon of malice. He says their game is in 1986. That the carnage of those two days, with red and blue weapons, is enough. That the events before them are not a witch fantasy, Natsuhi's privacy. No one has any right to expose it. Bern is still silent for a moment, and asks if he wants to say the witch drank tea there that day, and neither he nor the witch was denied by it.

He says the fifth game board is the two days in October, and the witch's existence only matters there. Devil's proof makes complete denial of the witch impossible. Talking about it in red is a stalemate and a foul.

There is some hard-to-understand debate about LD, and criminal theory, and stuff, then Battler gets mad and says it isn't something she can understand, and tells her to disappear. The game is between Beato and him. It won't be handed over to her. Bern responds simply with "..........unpleasantness."

Battler asks "How many?" (I think?)

Troll face Bern, saying she also plays the game, and enjoys it. She disappears, laughing evilly.

Back to meta frame Natsuhi, coma-Beato stands silently. There is a thought, either from Beato or Battler, "I am the only one left".

Battler asks about LD and Bernkastel. (lol translation says "Is the lambda .."�c�c.. delta in [berunkasuteru]?", which I'm sure is the content of a doujin, but isn't likely to be what is said here). Then he asks about Virgilia being her friend, and says they should have chosen (what?), then something about wellmatched and wicked. Beato doesn't respond. Battler looks uncomfortable, and is silent too. Battler helps her take another sip of tea.

Looks like end of meta scene for now. Will continue in a moment ;o

[Volcanic]

Originally Posted by Kamar

Spoiler for Meta world Woohoo! part 2:

Bern says something along the lines of him not being forgiven if he abandons the game. Battler says he already knows that. She asks/confirms? him knowing the goal of LD. She wants him to lose the will to fight just as much, so that all that is left is two lifeless dolls and a destabilized world. This worries Bern. Battler doesn't really care about their situation, but he won't throw away the game, because it would be failing in his responsibility in the fight with Beato.

Bern seems satisfied. She asks if Beato if she can be killed without hesitation, I think. No reaction. Battler seems to agree to do it, although he seems bothered by the idea that there is no way to know if Beato was relieved or wounded by this. It seems to concern him a good deal, despite his assurance.

Back to the Meta-world frame over Natsuhi and Beatrice. Bern appears, and comments on the Beatrice in the game that is safe and drinking tea with Natsuhi. Battler kind of does his aaa thing, then denies Beatrice, saying she is another of Natsuhi's delusions, and that it is merely how LD, the game master, chose to interpret the scene.

There is a line about something and loveless and not seeing something, the Bern denies Beatrice with reasoning. There is the broken glass sound, and meta-Beato looks weak and mutter/groans as the words of truth hit her. Battler immediately says the reasoning is right, but not to say it in front of Beato. Bern says the result is the same no matter where it is said, because it is the world of Beato. Battler then reasons out that there might be an unknown theoretical Beatrice sitting there drinking tea, because there is not red limit on this point in time's number of people. Bern seems slightly annoyed, but agrees that he is right. He continues with this line of reasoning, saying that in the end the Beato there cannot be denied.

Bern considers this, saying "Ah, Schrodinger's Cat theory...but this can't pass..."
Then, she gets epic troll face, and destroys it with the red text. Natsuhi sits alone, drinking tea as the wind blows.

Blood drip effect/image, and Beato groans. Another fantasy broken, she edges closer to death. The fight to make Beato rest is that kind of brutal thing. Some Battler thoughts now. Bern has compared his fight to torture, slowly peeling off a fingernail. He realizes that if it has to be removed, it is his last kindness to do the least pain possible to Beato.

He realizes the mercilessness of the red text. Natsuhi sits alone in the garden now. The observer has only her, now. It is undeniable now that Beatrice was not drinking tea with Natsuhi.

Battler calls the red truth a edged tool, and Bern says nothing. He continues, saying it is the tool of...something, and the arms for a counteroffensive. Bern says that he understands, and asks what of it.

Battler gets a little madder looking, and tells her not to use it. She says nothing. He says you only use an edged tool when it is necessary. That it is a lethal weapon of malice. He says their game is in 1986. That the carnage of those two days, with red and blue weapons, is enough. That the events before them are not a witch fantasy, Natsuhi's privacy. No one has any right to expose it. Bern is still silent for a moment, and asks if he wants to say the witch drank tea there that day, and neither he nor the witch was denied by it.

He says the fifth game board is the two days in October, and the witch's existence only matters there. Devil's proof makes complete denial of the witch impossible. Talking about it in red is a stalemate and a foul.

There is some hard-to-understand debate about LD, and criminal theory, and stuff, then Battler gets mad and says it isn't something she can understand, and tells her to disappear. The game is between Beato and him. It won't be handed over to her. Bern responds simply with "..........unpleasantness."

Battler asks "How many?" (I think?)

Troll face Bern, saying she also plays the game, and enjoys it. She disappears, laughing evilly.

Back to meta frame Natsuhi, coma-Beato stands silently. There is a thought, either from Beato or Battler, "I am the only one left".

Battler asks about LD and Bernkastel. (lol translation says "Is the lambda .."�c�c.. delta in [berunkasuteru]?", which I'm sure is the content of a doujin, but isn't likely to be what is said here). Then he asks about Virgilia being her friend, and says they should have chosen (what?), then something about wellmatched and wicked. Beato doesn't respond. Battler looks uncomfortable, and is silent too. Battler helps her take another sip of tea.

Looks like end of meta scene for now. Will continue in a moment ;o

BATTLER'S GETTING PHILOSOPHICAL.

Spoiler for EP5:

I am officially dubbing EP5 "The BatBeato Ship Tease arc."

[Sterling01]

Originally Posted by Volcanic

BATTLER'S GETTING PHILOSOPHICAL.

Spoiler for EP5:

I am officially dubbing EP5 "The BatBeato Ship Tease arc."

It goes past that

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Sterling01

It goes past that

Wait what?

[Hareoic]

Spoiler for Thoughts:

Okay, I still don't know what's going on, but maybe Battler did agree to fill in for Beato. However, the reason for that is that he wanted to beat her himself in a mature battle of wits. What Bern and Lamda are doing amounts to children trying to join in said game and then getting bored enough to want it to be over and done with.

Or something like that anyway. My thoughts on it all are a bit hazy.
Though Battler does seem to take several levels in badass here.

[Sterling01]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Wait what?

Spoiler for Ep 5:

It's really just opinion but Battler finally realizes what Beato was trying to show him he starts calling her an idiot for believing in him so much, and breaks down in tears

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Sterling01

Spoiler for Ep 5:

It's really just opinion but Battler finally realizes what Beato was trying to show him he starts calling her an idiot for believing in him so much, and breaks down in tears

Man. That's awesome. I like these developments better now.

Originally Posted by Hareoic

Spoiler for Thoughts:

Though Battler does seem to take several levels in badass here.

Spoiler for spec:

He better get a new, black, suit for the next game...

[Used Can]

Originally Posted by Sterling01

Spoiler for Ep 5:

It's really just opinion but Battler finally realizes what Beato was trying to show him he starts calling her an idiot for believing in him so much, and breaks down in tears

Spoiler:

;_______________________;
Hopefully, there'll be a way to bring Beato back. Somehow.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Riiiiiight.


"Not evil". "Just harsh on Battler".

Riiiiiiight.

And how does it prove anything?
So far, Beato's expressions are much more blunt and troll. And know what?
Virgilia stated in red that "Beato never made people die for her pleasure". It is in red, but if it wasn't for it, most people would actually believe she did enjoy killing people/making them die before turning into a vegetable.

Therefore, Bernkastel acting like this doesn't mean jack at all. To begin with, there is a context most of the time, and for this one, I've reached chap 10, it was used only once: when she was trying to refrain laughing, that's all.
She is obviously not having a behavior all that nice and likable for an ally, but there is no "white" for protagonist all the time.

Heck, all witch sides characters proved they have several sides despite they "should" be villainous and cruel.

...4am. time to stop or I will also turn into a vegetable.

[Volcanic]

Originally Posted by Sterling01

Spoiler for Ep 5:

It's really just opinion but Battler finally realizes what Beato was trying to show him he starts calling her an idiot for believing in him so much, and breaks down in tears

...8'DD'8

Spoiler for EP5:

Wow, that's really quite heartbreaking. Considering how much he hated her in EP2, their relationship has had some serious development over these games.

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Used Can

Spoiler:

;_______________________;
Hopefully, there'll be a way to bring Beato back. Somehow.

Spoiler for well:

Believing in her hard enough should do the trick, right?

I mean, she's not furniture like the Stakes, but they and Sakutaro were resummonable if believed in hard enough...

Originally Posted by Volcanic

Spoiler for EP5:

Wow, that's really quite heartbreaking. Considering how much he hated her in EP2, their relationship has had some serious development over these games.

Spoiler for response:

Their relationship may very well be a lot of the point of these games...