Madoka Magica - Movie 3 Spoilers and Speculations

[Animexcel]

Originally Posted by bhl88

Are the judges going to watch them all?

Your guess is as good as mine. If they want to be fair about it, they should watch it.

[bhl88]

Originally Posted by Animexcel

Your guess is as good as mine. If they want to be fair about it, they should watch it.

I'm starting to think that putting Rebellion in was the worst idea ever..... They should have put Beginnings and Eternal...

It's like putting the last Episode to Star Wars....

Luke: FATHER PLEASE~
Anakin: NOOOOOOOOOO

[Animexcel]

Originally Posted by bhl88

I'm starting to think that putting Rebellion in was the worst idea ever..... They should have put Beginnings and Eternal...

It's like putting the last Episode to Star Wars....

Luke: FATHER PLEASE~
Anakin: NOOOOOOOOOO

Well first of all, those movies wouldn't be qualified since time have already passed obviously. Also, 2 films for 1 oscar is unheard of.

[bhl88]

Oh right. I'm sure there were flashbacks in the Rebellion movie (with a summary).

[sailorcrisp]

I'm surprised it was actually submitted! Not that I'm complaining... I really hope it does win... I mean, Despicable Me 2 is ok, but it's like every other Disney movie. If they favour that over Rebellion, then I have no idea what they're judging .
Fingers crossed people!

[magnum12]

Thought of something interesting.

What if

Spoiler for theory regardin rebellion. Also has spoilers for Metal Gear Solid 3 and Code Geass:

Homura's true objective is the destruction of the MG system period? She's protecting Madoka by trying to take down the very thing that caused her suffering in the first place. Note that Homura only "suppressed" Madoka's powers and memories instead of erasing them. This is the equivilant of simply placing a pad lock on a box. For this plan to work, Homura must become the villain. The system is intentionally designed to be horrible so that Madoka's group will be motivated to defeat her. I admit this theory is hard to understand without knowing about the concept of "Playing to Lose", which is something out of the playbook of "The Boss. Leleouch planned a similar ploy to ensure world peace (which caused his death).

[Wanderer]

It seems to me that Homura can't erase Madoka's power. Madoka's was a legitimate wish after all; it can't be undone so easilly.

But it's still certainly possible that Homura is playing to lose anyway. It wouldn't be inconsistent with her characterization at all.

[Ridwan]

I think once I get to watch it, I'll gonna enjoy Homura's expressions.

[Vegard Aune]

So I decided to go and see this film a second time, to see if my opinion on it might change watching it again actually knowing what was coming... Plus I wanted to try and look at it from a more critical perspective, aka, trying to see how the pacing compares to the show. (Note: I find the show to be pretty much the ultimate example of how to pace a story. Not one element was redundant, not one scene dragging on for too long, and everything in hindsight very clearly building up to a perfectly fitting ending.)

And... well I'm certainly not as angry at it as I was before. In fact it occurs to me that, until those last 15 minutes, this movie is actually really good. And even those last 15 minutes I'm once again having trouble deciding if are really that bad or not...
That said, this story is clearly not as well put together as the show was. While the TV-series never seemed to have even a single moment that was unnecessary or overstayed its welcome, and I struggle to find any scenes in this movie that didn't add anything... there were however a lot of scenes that went on for way longer than they needed to. Like, seriously? Two and a half minutes straight of transformation-scenes? It looked cool and all, but it was thoroughly unnecessary. The show might have had transformation-scenes as well, but they were short enough to not distract from the plot. (That said, Kyouko's transformation-scene in The Eternal Story just before they entered Sayaka's witch-barrier was a bit overblown.) And there were plenty of other scenes too, that felt like they could easily have been trimmed down and still had the same impact. Basically, I guess, this movie seems to get caught up in its Shaft-iness too much, which I never felt was an issue in the series.
And I still don't get how Homura managed to overpower and suppress Madoka and become Homurakuma. Putting the issue of whether it makes sense for her to take this action notwithstanding (I have started to accept that yeah, considering how obsessed she is with Madoka, it's entirely possible that she would rewrite the universe itself just to keep her safe) there's no clear explanation for how she was even able to do so. And considering how that's the big twist-ending, the final thing the movie ultimately leaves us with, I consider that a pretty bad flaw.


That said... at this exact moment at least... I'm feeling a lot less loatheful towards this movie than I did last week. I still don't know if I can say that the movie as a whole is good or not though.
And this still did not need to happen.

[Wanderer]

I haven't seen it a second time yet, but I've generally come to the same conclusions.

It's not out of character at all for Homura to make the choice she did, and in fact I would say it even makes more sense than for her to let Madoka's wish stand. After all, after spending the latter half of her life with only one goal in mind, it's not something she could just let go. It's basically everything she is.

(Not that I would have had any trouble accepting her deciding not to go all demon on us.)

Her attitude about it was still weird, though. People say she was just "acting" but for whom? Was Sayaka watching? Was she acting to convince herself?

As for HOW Homura did it, I'm not satisfied at all. It's just the power of love, I guess? It really bothers me especially because the power of friendship, at least, was shown to fail in EP9 of the TV series when Madoka and Kyouko tried to save Sayaka. But now the power of love can... turn you into a god? Whaaaat? It really damaged my suspension of disbelief, which the story had done such a masterful job maintaining up until then. Rewriting the whole freaking universe needs a good explanation! Holy crap!

Regarding the pacing of the movie, yes, most of it is actually pretty slow. I didn't mind, though, as I pretty much expected as much going in. I wasn't spoiled in the slightest, so what I expected was more or less a crowd-pleaser. And that's what the first half of the movie was: Pretty animation (including things like the transformation scenes) and a chance to see all the girls fighting together. And I wanted nothing more from the movie than that, because as far as I was concerned the main story was already complete.

The movie picked up a lot with the Homura-Mami fight, (which was about 45 minutes in). Craaaazy animation and I look forward to seeing it again. After that everything was quite exciting, meaningful, and well-paced.

Minus the controversial ending, I would say it was a very good movie. The ending itself I have very mixed feelings about. Perhaps what annoys me the most is that the main series ending was so good that overwriting it into a completely open-ended situation as they have is artistically very irresponsible.

They broke the Madoka-verse's perfect ending with no plan on how to repair it.

[Triple_R]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

I haven't seen it a second time yet, but I've generally come to the same conclusions.

It's not out of character at all for Homura to make the choice she did, and in fact I would say it even makes more sense than for her to let Madoka's wish stand. After all, after spending the latter half of her life with only one goal in mind, it's not something she could just let go. It's basically everything she is.

(Not that I would have had any trouble accepting her deciding not to go all demon on us.)

Her attitude about it was still weird, though. People say she was just "acting" but for whom? Was Sayaka watching? Was she acting to convince herself?

Well, a couple things:

1. Homura had been a social outcast, or an underdog, pretty much her entire life. After being in such a role for so long, she was now ascending into a state of godhood. It's not hard to see how the sheer emotional rush here could be massive. An incredible moment of catharthis, regardless of what it meant for Madoka.

2. Homura had spent several years in a timeloop trying to save Madoka. It had met with continual failure until Madoka made a wish ending the timeloop. But now, Homura was at last going to achieve her ultimate goal. So again, an incredible moment of catharthis, particularly because of what it meant for Madoka (and Homura by extension).


The Homura we saw throughout most of the TV anime was probably at least a bit of a mask. She's probably not that naturally unemotional. She acted cool, calm, and collected in order to cope with a horrible situation. She kept her emotions tightly controlled and bottled up. Now, finally, she doesn't need to worry about that any more. Now she can at last give vent to her emotions, and just take great joy in her ultimate victory.

[woxx]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

As for HOW Homura did it, I'm not satisfied at all. It's just the power of love, I guess? It really bothers me especially because the power of friendship, at least, was shown to fail in EP9 of the TV series when Madoka and Kyouko tried to save Sayaka. But now the power of love can... turn you into a god? Whaaaat? It really damaged my suspension of disbelief, which the story had done such a masterful job maintaining up until then. Rewriting the whole freaking universe needs a good explanation! Holy crap!

Good explanation was never strong even in original TV series. It's magical girl show after all.
Homura was only one who saw rise of Madokami and then she was trapped in Homura's soulgem too. I guess Homura found a way to take over Madoka's Law of Cycles and became godlike.

[Kazu-kun]

Originally Posted by Triple_R

The Homura we saw throughout most of the TV anime was probably at least a bit of a mask. She's probably not that naturally unemotional. She acted cool, calm, and collected in order to cope with a horrible situation. She kept her emotions tightly controlled and bottled up. Now, finally, she doesn't need to worry about that any more. Now she can at last give vent to her emotions, and just take great joy in her ultimate victory.

She doesn't look happy at all though. Just look at those camrips going around. She looks smug, but her eyes betrays her true feelings. She probably feels like shit.

Why the "I'm the evilest hahaha" act though? Well, think about it. Homura does apparently succeed in protecting Madoka, but at the cost of taking her free will from her and opposing her actions. She's basically kidnapping her. Does anyone really think Homura is unaware of this contradiction? No, of course she isn't. Putting aside our (the audience's) moral judgment on her actions, Homura herself probably sees what she did as evil. After all, Homura may not care about the world, but she does care about Madoka, and that includes Madoka's free will and actions.

So why does she play the devil? Because, if being the devil to Madoka's god is what it takes to protect Madoka, so be it. She won't look for excuses or try to justify herself. She's playing the part because she feels just has to, because she believes that what she did was evil and feels like shit about it but is determined to keep going regardless.

[Wanderer]

Originally Posted by woxx

Good explanation was never strong even in original TV series. It's magical girl show after all.

It's just that in the original series everything was always justified about as well as it possibly could have been. There was always a sense of kharmic balance, and limitations on what wishes could accomplish. And there was a solid kharmic explanation for why Madoka was something of an exception.

It's all fiction of course in the end, but it was elegant enough and satisfying enough that it didn't feel like things "just happened".

Good storytelling lets you forget it's BS.

Originally Posted by woxx

Homura was only one who saw rise of Madokami and then she was trapped in Homura's soulgem too. I guess Homura found a way to take over Madoka's Law of Cycles and became godlike.

"I guess she found a way" indeed.

There could have been a decent explanation, I think, but instead it just kinda happened.

[magnum12]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

Her attitude about it was still weird, though. People say she was just "acting" but for whom? Was Sayaka watching? Was she acting to convince herself?

I think I can explain this with my theory.

Homura is taking the "push people away to protect them" ploy to its logical tragic conclusion. She has a lot of experience with it, and as some have pointed out with the look in her eyes, she doesn't feel good about what she's doing either. She thus has to act like the villain. That also includes convincing herself that she's the bad guy so she doesn't blow it either.

Now for the million dollar question: What do I call the theory? Do I call it the "Zero Approval" theory, or

Spoiler for Metal Gear Solid 3 spoilers:

"The Boss"

theory, or something else entirely?

[Hachiko]

Originally Posted by magnum12

I think I can explain this with my theory.

Homura is taking the "push people away to protect them" ploy to its logical tragic conclusion. She has a lot of experience with it, and as some have pointed out with the look in her eyes, she doesn't feel good about what she's doing either. She thus has to act like the villain. That also includes convincing herself that she's the bad guy so she doesn't blow it either.

Now for the million dollar question: What do I call the theory? Do I call it the "Zero Approval" theory, or

Spoiler for Metal Gear Solid 3 spoilers:

"The Boss"

theory, or something else entirely?

The Devil's Homuradvocate Theory.

[Shadow5YA]

Originally Posted by Wanderer

It's just that in the original series everything was always justified about as well as it possibly could have been. There was always a sense of kharmic balance, and limitations on what wishes could accomplish. And there was a solid kharmic explanation for why Madoka was something of an exception.

Technically Homura counted as an exception even before she turned into a Witch/demon. She remembers everything, so in a sense her soul already transcends time and space like Madokami does.

In fact, remember that Kyubey stated the reason why Madoka became so powerful was because Homura connected her fate through multiple timelines.

[Ridwan]

Watched the camrip just now. As expected, the best part of the movie was Homura. But how her suffering was served there exceeded my expectation. That, is what a real agony actually looks like.

[Sayaka's sandbag]

Originally Posted by Ridwan

Watched the camrip just now. As expected, the best part of the movie was Homura. But how her suffering was served there exceeded my expectation. That, is what a real agony actually looks like.

; ; My poor Homu. This will be so sad to watch.

[woxx]

Originally Posted by Ridwan

Watched the camrip just now. As expected, the best part of the movie was Homura. But how her suffering was served there exceeded my expectation. That, is what a real agony actually looks like.

Atleast she deserved and got her victory in the end.