(L+CR) Arpeggio of blue steel

[synx]

Originally Posted by Top Sergeant

You or I or another human would think nothing of spending a little extra ammunition just to make sure. 400 and 402 are essentially computers. When they had correctly assessed that 401 could not possibly recover from the damage it suffered, they left. I don't think they realized that Takao would sacrifice herself to resurrect 401.

Fog tend to err on the side of "moar dakka" rather than less...

[Tranhieu]

Originally Posted by Tim yy

Why didn't 400 and 402 just spend 2 more torpedoes and destroy 401 completely? Are they not smart enough to calculate there a chance of rescue when Takao is coming fast towards the rendezvous point? What a waste of effort they spent monitoring Kongo and let the big fish escape.
Still, the concept of a 5-cored submarine-battleship is scary as hell in Arpeggio terms. 1 core for primary weaponry (Kirishima), 1 core for defence (Haruna), 1 core for ship integrity (Takao), 1 core for sensory and dectection (Iona), they will even have 1 spare core to hack other ships (Hyuuga). Oh...and the human crew, they can just sit back and watch a movie or something.

That's the problem even with modern simulations, you don't know when another variable pops up and how it affects the calculation as a whole. I reckon they discarded the possibility of Takao jumping into the water even before running the simulation and thus, the chance of a heavy cruiser finding a submarine wreckage at the depth of 9km is so minute it's safe to assume Iona is already done for with just 2 corrosive torpedoes.

One thing that bugs me though, is I-400 saying the probability of Iona's survival being 0%, which is absurd since the concept of absolute doesn't exist in statistics (yah a statistician here). It's like a bounded infinite series that can goes on forever but will never reach its upper/lower bound. That's one big error there and yet they went back claiming it's actually Kongou who had issues.

On another note, the character songs are available on Itune store. Takao's song is the best so far.

[Tim yy]

Takao's song is the best so far

Was it the song played in episode 10 when Takao sacrificed herself?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Okay, since the anime is coming to an end, maybe we can finally start a discussion

(Without going into the manga) If you can add something that will improve the overall plot of the anime, what would you add?

[kagato3]

God the plot holes in this ep.
some big ones,
1 Iona being worried about purging to O2 plant. It's clearly shown to be made of nano materials as we see it desolve which means she could easly remake it with any number of non critical systems or areas on her.

2 the very idea that Dreadnought Iona can't spend a hundred or so pounds of nanomaterial let alone the ten or so that Kirshima usess of nanomaterial to form her temp body is inane and thats assuming those life boats aren't made of her.

3 the whole Maya bit makes no logical sense. Existing before Kongou even met the 401 to spy on her . She's just a logic routine yet she is rarely shown doing anything logical always acting on the whim of her emotions.

Really this ep feels like it is bad fan fiction

Spoiler for manga:

and give the big bads I wouldn't doubt if it was 400 and 401's doujinshi form the omake

[Tenzen12]

Yeah, It's difficult take Takao sacrifice seriously when it doesn't make freaking sense, so despite of me liking her It utterly missed mark.

For Maya, it's possible they made her after I-401 switching side "for case" something like that could repeat itself. It's still a stretch a point, but unlike former that scene did have quite strong emotional impact.

Anyway these aren't first nor last plot holes here.

[Tranhieu]

I already stopped taking this adaptation seriously after Makie's rescue. Really, there's no point holding onto the manga if it's clear as day that they decided to go down another route, and to me as far as it's entertaining I'm totally satisfied with the original story, so long the plot holes are acceptable.

Originally Posted by Tim yy

Was it the song played in episode 10 when Takao sacrificed herself?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Okay, since the anime is coming to an end, maybe we can finally start a discussion

(Without going into the manga) If you can add something that will improve the overall plot of the anime, what would you add?

Nah it's this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxLixVzRMfA

The Itunes version is up for grab here https://itunes.apple.com/jp/album/id748127767

The one played when Takao dissolved herself is Silver Sky by Nano.

Perhaps Yamato? I miss her *smile smile* from the Omake so much

[Tenzen12]

You realise going "different route" and not having plot-holes isn't mutualy exclusive, don't you?

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Outside of Maya being a fake, I don't really mind the other plot holes coz they're not very obvious as to distract you from the story or insult your intelligence (unlike Bayformers sequels).

And if I'm allowed to be frank, there is no sci-fi series (anime or not) that doesn't contain plot holes in it. Even the legendary Star Trek TOS & TNG has huge plot holes themselves. Heck, even what many consider a stand-out like GITS SAC, Psycho Pass, etc still has plot holes. So, the plot hole alone does not make or break a sci-fi show. It's all about how you execute the story and being careful enough so the plot holes won't be too obvious.

[Tenzen12]

Sci-fi is genre like any others, if you say there is no Sci-fi without plot holes you can as well say there is not mystery, romance, medical drama, sport or even historical story without these.

Ars Nova is one of best anime of season, but it could be far better if creators put some effort make it consistent. Aside of others Takao sacrifice definitely WAS insult of inteligence. It's Valvrave type of twist where for sake of drama any logic has to go aside.

[encia]

Originally Posted by Ickarium

I haven't watched this episode yet, due to real life. Question: is it guaranteed Takao 'died', or could she simply be inside Iona? IE, her personality core is still existing, just linked to Iona so Iona doesn't get overwhelmed controlling everything?

Guess who piloted the I401-heavy cruiser hybrid when Ilona was unconscious...

[Obelisk ze Tormentor]

Originally Posted by Tenzen12

Sci-fi is genre like any others, if you say there is no Sci-fi without plot holes you can as well say there is not mystery, romance, medical drama, sport or even historical story without these.

Oh, I'm not gonna go that far as I have witnessed many series & movies beside Sci-fi that has no plot holes in their stories beside some coincidences. To name a few, there are The Godfather, Saving Private Ryan, Into The Wild, The Flags of our Fathers, Letters from Iwo Jima, Band of Brothers, and so many others. Usually, drama (if done right) doesn't have any plot holes in the story.

[Seiryuu]

Originally Posted by Tim yy

Why didn't 400 and 402 just spend 2 more torpedoes and destroy 401 completely? Are they not smart enough to calculate there a chance of rescue when Takao is coming fast towards the rendezvous point? What a waste of effort they spent monitoring Kongo and let the big fish escape.

As Hyuuga stated, the act of sacrificing one's life to save another is completely alien to them, particularly when the action's result is not strategically beneficial. The concept of fusion is also alien to them. They couldn't have included such comletely illogical tactical possibilities into their calculations as they made no sense at all (to them). Without such drastic measures though, it would have been utterly impossible to save either one of them. Thus they reasonably concluded that Iona was completely lost. You might as well say someone should have realized the possibility of a person recovering from having his head cut off.

[encia]

Originally Posted by Tim yy

Why didn't 400 and 402 just spend 2 more torpedoes and destroy 401 completely? Are they not smart enough to calculate there a chance of rescue when Takao is coming fast towards the rendezvous point? What a waste of effort they spent monitoring Kongo and let the big fish escape.
Still, the concept of a 5-cored submarine-battleship is scary as hell in Arpeggio terms. 1 core for primary weaponry (Kirishima), 1 core for defence (Haruna), 1 core for ship integrity (Takao), 1 core for sensory and dectection (Iona), they will even have 1 spare core to hack other ships (Hyuuga). Oh...and the human crew, they can just sit back and watch a movie or something.

Takao = heavy cruiser's weapon systems (beam cannons, vertical missile launcher) and heavy cruiser's gravity cannon (located on the super structure).
Ilona = submarine's weapons (torpedos), sensors and defence/klein field systems.
Hyuuga = super gravity cannon system, electronic warfare(hacking/counter hacking) and engineering/science support.
Kirishima = defence/klein field systems.
Haruna = sensor support and defence/klein field systems. Haruna has located i401's distress beacon.

As shown from the island's defence situation, multiple metal models can enhance Klein field defensive calculations.

Big chunk of ship's performance is influenced by the quality of the ship's crew e.g. USS Enterprise CV-6 vs her sister ships i.e. USS Yorktown CV-5 and USS Hornet CV-8.

[Seiryuu]

Originally Posted by kagato3

God the plot holes in this ep.
some big ones,
1 Iona being worried about purging to O2 plant. It's clearly shown to be made of nano materials as we see it desolve which means she could easly remake it with any number of non critical systems or areas on her.

2 the very idea that Dreadnought Iona can't spend a hundred or so pounds of nanomaterial let alone the ten or so that Kirshima usess of nanomaterial to form her temp body is inane and thats assuming those life boats aren't made of her.

3 the whole Maya bit makes no logical sense. Existing before Kongou even met the 401 to spy on her . She's just a logic routine yet she is rarely shown doing anything logical always acting on the whim of her emotions.

For 1 and 2, it seems that manipulating nanomaterial takes energy, and she'd purged a lot of her systems, including possibly some that would require replacement using those noncritical parts. Add the fact that she'd completely lost the systems that protect her from such extreme pressure, she probably couldn't even afford to divert any of her failing power or processing to such things. She didn't choose to lose her body, she just couldn't afford with her energy levels to divert any power, material or processing to the maintenance of that body. Just consider the amount of pressure you're dealing with at the ocean floor, with compromised systems and the loss of all life-support components. She was lucky to manage what she did with what little she had left.
As for Maya, while I agree that it doesn't seem likely that she was merely a puppet from before the twins even showed up, her behavior doesn't seem all that strange even for a logical routine. In fact, considering the way all the other ships that HAVE emotion programs behave, her behavior seems less like actual deliberate action and more like a bad act, exactly what you'd expect from a being who doesn't properly understand emotion trying to make something that "acts" emotional without having any actual emotions. In fact, she reminds me of one robot from the movie "Bicentennial Man" who had a "personality chip" put in: very flighty and weird and full of attitude, but not actually feeling anything beneath. Still, as I said, I hope it turns out that this was either a deception or a mistake.

[kagato3]

Originally Posted by Seiryuu

For 1 and 2, it seems that manipulating nanomaterial takes energy, and she'd purged a lot of her systems, including possibly some that would require replacement using those noncritical parts. Add the fact that she'd completely lost the systems that protect her from such extreme pressure, she probably couldn't even afford to divert any of her failing power or processing to such things. She didn't choose to lose her body, she just couldn't afford with her energy levels to divert any power, material or processing to the maintenance of that body. Just consider the amount of pressure you're dealing with at the ocean floor, with compromised systems and the loss of all life-support components. She was lucky to manage what she did with what little she had left.
As for Maya, while I agree that it doesn't seem likely that she was merely a puppet from before the twins even showed up, her behavior doesn't seem all that strange even for a logical routine. In fact, considering the way all the other ships that HAVE emotion programs behave, her behavior seems less like actual deliberate action and more like a bad act, exactly what you'd expect from a being who doesn't properly understand emotion trying to make something that "acts" emotional without having any actual emotions. In fact, she reminds me of one robot from the movie "Bicentennial Man" who had a "personality chip" put in: very flighty and weird and full of attitude, but not actually feeling anything beneath. Still, as I said, I hope it turns out that this was either a deception or a mistake.

While I might be able to buy that for 1 it does nothing to adress point 2. Takao was flat out told she restored to even the level of Kirishima because they didn't have the nanomaterial. Disregarding the 3 large life rafts that are most likely made of Takao the idea that there isn't at least 10 pounds of nanomaterial that could be used is ridiculous. What was there a vote and the crew choose haveing chairs in the mess reather then Takao back?

[Tim yy]

Nah it's this one http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vxLixVzRMfA

Great, Thanks a bunch ~ Once again, i'm amazed all these voice actors can sing so well.

Takao = heavy cruiser's weapon systems (beam cannons, vertical missile launcher) and heavy cruiser's gravity cannon (located on the super structure).
Ilona = submarine's weapons (torpedos), sensors and defence/klein field systems.

Heheh...now I wish they have more nanomaterials on hands, and make a true Iona-zilla-megazord-battleship-submarine-cruiser out of it.

Maybe there are more sentimental justifications to Takao's sacrifice, after she saw what Iona did for Gunzo, she chose the best way to compensate the one she loves with the love that can never be reciprocated.
I kinda wish that she doesn't make a come back right away, the sleeping beauty should not have a rude awakening until the moment is right.

[Anime Online]

I'm just wondering what's the point of those side characters who act as crew members in Iona submarine. None of the other Fog vessels require a crew. The mental modes do everything: from navigation, propulsion, sonar to weapon systems. At least Gunzou act as captain and provide tactical command.

[Kyruga]

Originally Posted by Anime Online

I'm just wondering what's the point of those side characters who act as crew members in Iona submarine. None of the other Fog vessels require a crew. The mental modes do everything: from navigation, propulsion, sonar to weapon systems. At least Gunzou act as captain and provide tactical command.

Death Flags for the Enemy? Free Kills?

[Tim yy]

Originally Posted by Kyruga

Death Flags for the Enemy? Free Kills?

Wong!!

[Biohazardous]

Originally Posted by Tim yy

I kinda wish that she doesn't make a come back right away, the sleeping beauty should not have a rude awakening until the moment is right.

I like that point. It will suck waiting for her but, it seems like a great point to wait.

Originally Posted by Anime Online

I'm just wondering what's the point of those side characters who act as crew members in Iona submarine. None of the other Fog vessels require a crew. The mental modes do everything: from navigation, propulsion, sonar to weapon systems. At least Gunzou act as captain and provide tactical command.

I'd think if the crew is there watching the systems and taking action with them then Iona doesn't have to do it and use resources for other things. Even taking the human emotion factor away I would think this would give her a slight advantage.