International Saimoe League 2008 - The Best of the Best

[KholdStare]

Originally Posted by Mushi

Need a little help, please. Trying to sort out the Negima! vs. Negima!? thing. I see the girls listed in the tournament as being from Negima!? (and, yes, the question mark should be after the exclamation).

Is there that much of a difference as far as getting to know the characters in the tournament? The wiki states, "Negima!? focuses more on magical battles and comedy and less on fanservice." But, I see it's a retelling of the original and I've read some comments that it's a disappointment.

I just watched episode 1 of "?" and thought it seemed ok. It has me interested... now, THAT'S a LOT of cute girls in one place.

But, I also see that it was only fansubbed up to #20(?). Looks like lots more still available out there for the original, Mahō Sensei Negima!... is that because it has more fan service, or because it's more like the manga?

Huh? It doesn't really matter, as long as the characters are in the series.

[Mushi]

Originally Posted by KholdStare

Huh? It doesn't really matter, as long as the characters are in the series.

Negima!: Magister Negi Magi was done by XEBEC, Negima!? was done by Shaft.

According to the wiki:

As a remake, characters appearing from the original Mahou Sensei Negima appear in this retelling. However, under Studio Shaft, the characters have taken a redesign. The redesigns are featured in the first episode, as all girls from Negi's class are introduced. The majority of the characters are drawn with a more youthful appearance than the first series, with finer details; yet they retain their basic character designs. This also includes some of their original characteristics, behaviors, and traits.

Different studios, changes in character designs... just wondering if it's enough of a difference to influence the "moe quality" of a character. I'm sensitive to design changes, myself. Looks like the same VAs are used in both, which is a huge part of a character's appeal, IMHO, so at least that would carry over.

The entries for the girls have them as being from Negima!?, not Negima!: Magister Negi Magi, or the generic title of Negima (no punctuation).

With so much catching up to do I'm just trying to use my viewing time efficiently.

[Psieye]

Originally Posted by Mushi

Need a little help, please. Trying to sort out the Negima! vs. Negima!? thing. I see the girls listed in the tournament as being from Negima!? (and, yes, the question mark should be after the exclamation).

Is there that much of a difference as far as getting to know the characters in the tournament? The wiki states, "Negima!? focuses more on magical battles and comedy and less on fanservice." But, I see it's a retelling of the original and I've read some comments that it's a disappointment.

I just watched episode 1 of "?" and thought it seemed ok. It has me interested... now, THAT'S a LOT of cute girls in one place.

But, I also see that it was only fansubbed up to #20(?). Looks like lots more still available out there for the original, Mahō Sensei Negima!... is that because it has more fan service, or because it's more like the manga?

Originally Posted by Mushi

Negima!: Magister Negi Magi was done by XEBEC, Negima!? was done by Shaft.

According to the wiki:

Different studios, changes in character designs... just wondering if it's enough of a difference to influence the "moe quality" of a character. I'm sensitive to design changes, myself. Looks like the same VAs are used in both, which is a huge part of a character's appeal, IMHO, so at least that would carry over.

The entries for the girls have them as being from Negima!?, not Negima!: Magister Negi Magi, or the generic title of Negima (no punctuation).

With so much catching up to do I'm just trying to use my viewing time efficiently.

Look at the Negima bios I've got up on my wiki. They'll explain what I think the most efficient thing would be. And if the next question is "where can I grab the manga?" then contact me. Because neither anime get it right. At all.... well ok, they get a few things right, but it's a huge waste of time if you really want to get to know these girls.


As for the 7 elements to the 7 gems, it's your call how you do it, I'm just providing the spark.

[Ahasuerus]

@qtip:

The Mai picture with the chopsticks was 2, though, the first two pictures were 1a. and 1b. (I just realised that we should change this, though after Mai and Shana are decided, there will be no more of these.)

I must have got lazy and just counted the pics rather than the (a) and (b)

And Sola is very similar to Air, right down to the pacing issues during the middle part of the series. You'll probably enjoy it if you liked Air.
I almost spoiled something, but I caught myself.

Good catch then! Thanks Air and Kanon are my two favorite stories, and I'd hate to have any of them spoiled. I can forgive a little pacing issue if the story is worthwhile

Spoiler for non-Saimoe-related:

BTW, I notice in your avi that you are a "Buddahjew" -Ahasuerus is actually one of the names of The Wandering Jew, which, I guess, is odd in that I'm neither much of a wanderer or Jewish (It's the name of a character in a story I wrote.)

@Psieye:

On an unrelated note, I have huge gripes that they officially chose 'Sola' instead of 'Sora' as the romanisation. Sora would have automatically gotten me to realise the series is titled SKY, suddenly making things have a lot more impact. Took me a while to realise that's what they were trying to say in the title...

Funny you mention this because I was thinking the EXACT same thing after watching the first two episodes, where so much of the focus is Sky. Would've made a lot more sense as "Sora" IMO. I'm surprised that this series didn't even show up on my radar!

[Mushi]

Originally Posted by Psieye

Because neither anime get it right. At all.... well ok, they get a few things right, but it's a huge waste of time if you really want to get to know these girls.

Hmmm... I don't see as how it should matter what the difference is between anime and manga for this tournament. Most people, I would think, get their impressions of the girls from anime. And I think an anime adaptation of anything should stand and be judged, along with the characters, on it's own merit. And considering there are 5 girls from this series in the tournament, I think that warrants a little clarification.

If there is a subset of participants voting on the girls based on their further impressions of them from manga, then I would think the results might be skewed.

I know very well that manga almost always gives better character development and insight, but like I said, a voice given to the character (along with color, music, movement and effects) conveys things that manga can never provide. I just can't imagine feeling the way I do about any of the girls without hearing their distinctive voices.

Meh... I think I'm thinking too much.

I'm just gonna' go finish watching Zero no Tsukaima. Louise is cool, but Siesta is really growing on me.... and largely because of her voice. I love the soft, breathy voice Yui Horie gave to her.

[qtipbrit]

Originally Posted by Psieye

On an unrelated note, I have huge gripes that they officially chose 'Sola' instead of 'Sora' as the romanisation. Sora would have automatically gotten me to realise the series is titled SKY, suddenly making things have a lot more impact. Took me a while to realise that's what they were trying to say in the title...

Sola -> Feminine form of "Solo" in Spanish and Italian.
See where I'm getting at?
That it's homophonic with "Sora" probably wasn't a coincidence either.

Originally Posted by Kagedanji

We're thinking of the refined light blue sapphire, which is what more people view as sapphire.

I know, it's the Sapphire that Garnet learns Leviathan from.
But still, water -> earth.

Originally Posted by Mushi

The entries for the girls have them as being from Negima!?, not Negima!: Magister Negi Magi, or the generic title of Negima (no punctuation).

XEBEC -> No other characters aside from the Negima! franchise.
SHAFT -> Kiri Komori. Chihiro Shindo was in the top 17 nominees for a short time, but she dropped out.
Oh, and all of the prequalified characters were credited from Negima!?, as it aired in 2006, so I would cite them as Negima!? characters. Setsuna Sakurazaki was a fanvote character, and all the while she was cited as a Negima!? character as well.
I'm quite sure the two are not connected, and I've been told that it's fine to watch Negima!? without having first seen Negima! MNM, too.

Originally Posted by Mushi

I'm just gonna' go finish watching Zero no Tsukaima. Louise is cool, but Siesta is really growing on me.... and largely because of her voice. I love the soft, breathy voice Yui Horie gave to her.

Even though Siesta was apparently the crowd favourite for Zero no Tsukaima fans, she still lost in a landslide against Hinagiku in Korea.
But Yui Horie is generally win.

[Psieye]

Originally Posted by Mushi

Hmmm... I don't see as how it should matter what the difference is between anime and manga for this tournament. Most people, I would think, get their impressions of the girls from anime. And I think an anime adaptation of anything should stand and be judged, along with the characters, on it's own merit. And considering there are 5 girls from this series in the tournament, I think that warrants a little clarification.

If there is a subset of participants voting on the girls based on their further impressions of them from manga, then I would think the results might be skewed.

I know very well that manga almost always gives better character development and insight, but like I said, a voice given to the character (along with color, music, movement and effects) conveys things that manga can never provide. I just can't imagine feeling the way I do about any of the girls without hearing their distinctive voices.

Meh... I think I'm thinking too much.

I'm just gonna' go finish watching Zero no Tsukaima. Louise is cool, but Siesta is really growing on me.... and largely because of her voice. I love the soft, breathy voice Yui Horie gave to her.

As far as I'm concerned, the only advantage anime has is Voice. Everything else is dependent on the reader - colour, music, movement, effects are all things I can picture in my own mind. Heck, anime will always always fail at action scenes for me because I can picture multiple fights going on at the same time that interfere with each other, which anime will absolutley loathe to do ("we gotta have 1v1 fights, we gotta only show one fight at a time to the audience"). Constantly I will compare an anime action scene with either something I envision from a SRW or Touhou game; or from a fighting game against a competent player where we're busy trying to read each others' intents. Voice too is something I can pick up and carry over to manga once I get used to it.

Eh... then again I do know people on the other end of the spectrum who are good at reading and who love movies... but can't do manga. There'll be people on every part of that spectrum. So guess my point is, take what I said above with the spice of "this is coming from a guy who reads the Negima manga raw, trying to get up at 6am so he can read it as soon as it comes out before he goes to work. Also, a guy who treats anime adaptations as mere previews for the original source material"

[KholdStare]

By the way Psieye, I created more profile pictures for Fate and Nanoha so if you want you can look over them to see if they are any better. I also made another one for Vita but I'm not sure if that's any better.

And why is this current discussion still going on? If you're iffy on whether or not a picture can be used for a character, then just post it and we'll decide later. We're deciding on which picture is cutest, not which one best fits the character (as we've said before).

[minhtam1638]

Okay, on the agenda for today:

1. Finalize Eri's profile. Then give an update to Wannabe fansubs.
2. Finish any loose ends. Check my mail for avatars and other stuff, then upload those as well.
3. Do Mai's profile if a selection has been made for the profile pic
4. Take the rest of the night off and study for Monday morning's Physics exam.


That's one of the advantages of having ISML three days a week rather than six - voting results can be checked over carefully instead of a one hour inspection, Saimoé voters won't have to burn themselves everyday, and most of all, I still get to have time to do other important things. Speaking of which, it is best if I use most of the time for my classes, since I'm pretty sure I'll get into parental trouble if my grades fall because of this, which I guaranteed them it won't. Working out well so far - higher than a 3.2 average, which entitles me to apply for a five-year fast-track to the Master's program, but I think some more effort is needed in order for it to be impressive.

In fact, I'm starting to see the effects of running a 64-league instead of a 290-Single Elimination - with the limited number of participants guaranteed to have 63 matches regardless, it puts more focus on the contestants themselves, as the profiles have currently done. Not only that, but voters won't "drop out" of Saimoé because their favorite contestant lost and therefore out of the competition. And with the necklaces that I have decided to award, those already locked-out of a possible top 16 finish or a top-32 finish will still have something to fight for.

[Psieye]

Originally Posted by KholdStare

And why is this current discussion still going on? If you're iffy on whether or not a picture can be used for a character, then just post it and we'll decide later. We're deciding on which picture is cutest, not which one best fits the character (as we've said before).

Oh it moved on from deciding which series to get a picture from, on to "anime versions of characters shouldn't be disregarded so vehemently" (Mushi's point). Ok, come to think of it, I did choose the wrong words in my original post. It's not that they get them 'wrong' per se, as they often over-generalise (so many "let's just toss in all the girls because we really need to give them screentime") to the point of getting inaccurate, and the fact they're 4 years behind on material/character development. The 2 OVAs produced by Shaft do much better.


Moving on, random choice of characters to comment on for the profile pictures:
Ryou03 - that expression is core to the best of Ryou's scene in my view
Shiori03 - finger-to-chin was what I sought, and someone found such a shot.
Konoka01 - 02 is 'better' except it's not her normal behaviour
Eva... something that has 01's quality but 02's feel would be best. Mmm, there must be something suitable out there...
Setsuna02 - 01 has wings which may confuse uninitiated and 03 is waaaaay beyond anime
Nanoha04 - I still like 01 the best but it's not often you see that. 04 plainly conveys Nanoha
Fate08 - factoring in 'you can't see her face in 03' then this does the job well. 05 and 06 are fine too.
Vita04 - I've commented before, but if "Badass Moe" exists then Vita is it. This picture succeeds in getting both her Badass Moe and Iiko (good girl) Moe.

[qtipbrit]

Well, I've just owned KholdStare's Sakuras #2, 3, 8, and 10 so there are fewer choices.

And I guess it's been enough time, so here are the results of the profile picture vote thing:

Haruhi - 1, 1, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 6, 6, 6
Yuki - 2, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 6
Mikuru - 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 4
Tsuruya - 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 3
Imouto - 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4

Mai - 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3
Shana - 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 2, 3

I also really like the Alice Carroll picture, and there's been no other submissions or complaints. Shall we go with that one?

[minhtam1638]

Originally Posted by qtipbrit92

I also really like the Alice Carroll picture, and there's been no other submissions or complaints. Shall we go with that one?

Considering how Alice is somewhat of a more minor character in ARIA, yeah.

[Mushi]

Originally Posted by Psieye

Also, a guy who treats anime adaptations as mere previews for the original source material"

Interesting perspective. I can see why, though, since so many anime adaptations come from manga (or games). And I do intend to explore more manga because of the good impressions that so many of the anime series have made.

I was just curious about Negima, since it has two anime versions. My interest is in getting familiar enough with the girls that I can make a fair comparison for voting. That's all...

Carry on... carry on....

[z3phyr.mp3]

i wholly agree with Psieye that the only advantage of an anime to its manga counterpart is the voices...
sometimes in the manga you can just even imagine the voices of the characters and how they say a certain line... it's all left to your imagination...

PS:
should i start making campaign sigs now or is it still too early...

[KholdStare]

Totally off-topic here, but I consider Negima?!?!??!?!? to be one of the worst anime ever created. Many agree with me that it's the adaptations that are bad, not the original plot itself.

Originally Posted by z3phyr.mp3

should i start making campaign sigs now or is it still too early...

It's never too early.

Originally Posted by qtipbrit92

Haruhi - 1, 1, 3, 4, 4, 5, 6, 6, 6, 6
Yuki - 2, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 6
Mikuru - 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 2, 2, 4
Tsuruya - 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 3
Imouto - 1, 2, 2, 2, 3, 4, 4, 4, 4, 4

Woot, these are all my preferences, so I'm happy.

Originally Posted by Psieye

Nanoha04 - I still like 01 the best but it's not often you see that. 04 plainly conveys Nanoha

Yeah I like #1 too. I think that was when Nanoha tried to be super yuri towards Fate and offering her ribbon or something. It's not often that we see her with her hair down, but she's so cute then.

[z3phyr.mp3]

Originally Posted by qtipbrit92

I also really like the Alice Carroll picture, and there's been no other submissions or complaints. Shall we go with that one?

the current alice caroll pic is nice already IMO...
we could use more choices with chiaki though...

Originally Posted by KholdStare

Totally off-topic here, but I consider Negima?!?!??!?!? to be one of the worst anime ever created. Many agree with me that it's the adaptations that are bad, not the original plot itself.

i agree to that...

Originally Posted by KholdStare

It's never too early.

i was just thinking it's still out of season...

[Psieye]

Originally Posted by Mushi

Interesting perspective. I can see why, though, since so many anime adaptations come from manga (or games). And I do intend to explore more manga because of the good impressions that so many of the anime series have made.

Actually, this perspective was born more from FMP and Shana, which are both originally light novels. Yes, Negima anime adaptations were a part of creating this attitude but the sheer FAILure to deliver powerful emotional scenes in FMP S1 and Shana S1 is why I will always suspect the anime isn't doing it right - not to mention the restrictions anime have (time per ep, number of eps) means they're going to leave out details - remember I'm a Lore Hunter.

I was just curious about Negima, since it has two anime versions. My interest is in getting familiar enough with the girls that I can make a fair comparison for voting. That's all...

Carry on... carry on....

In which case, grab the Spring and Summer OVAs of Negima. Shaft's Negima!? is an alternate story that very quickly (as planned from the start) goes on its own path and changes character traits somewhat. Xebec's version (the first adaptation) tries to stick with the source material but was afraid to commit to a 3-volume-long arc so dabbled around in episodic (read: isolated) stories. Mind, it produced a lovely Sayo ep (19) and seemed to have a good original story going to finish the series on (until they hit the reset button, undoing damn well all their good work).

I suppose for getting familiar with the girls, a few eps of Xebec's version would be suitable for Nodoka. The OVAs better cover Yue and Konoka. First few eps of Negima!? do Eva and Setsuna well.

[minhtam1638]

Originally Posted by z3phyr.mp3

i wholly agree with Psieye that the only advantage of an anime to its manga counterpart is the voices...
sometimes in the manga you can just even imagine the voices of the characters and how they say a certain line... it's all left to your imagination...

PS:
should i start making campaign sigs now or is it still too early...

If you want, you can. After all, it's only 64 compared to the 290 we will see in Japan

And Imouto - 4? Why am I not surprised that Loli in a bag wins?

[KholdStare]

Also, even though I dropped both series, look at this:



That already wins my vote. They're just already cute as they are.

Also, qtip, arrange a voting event for the characters that has way too many pictures, notably Louise, Nagi, Sakura (who the hell created so many pictures?) and the Clannad characters.

Schedule Update: I am up to #51 Saber. That's 51/64 folks. I will need a final proofreading also.

[minhtam1638]

Originally Posted by KholdStare

Schedule Update: I am up to #51 Saber. That's 51/64 folks. I will need a final proofreading also.

Proofreading for schedules? If anything, when I ask for it and you send it to me, I'll do that before I copy and paste.