[Game] Umineko - Spoilers, Theories, Interpretations

[Jan-Poo]

I agree with Renall, I don't think Kinzo is crazy. Certainly he is eccentric and thinks in a different way than normal people do. This is what Nanjo and Genji who know him better than anyone else say about him. However this is only proof of him being a genius.

Both geniuses and mad people are not normal, and are significantly different from the rest of the world. The only way you can tell them apart is by judging their achievements, if they don't achieve anything they are crazy, if they achieve the impossible they are geniuses. Kinzo achieved the impossible, Kinzo is a genius.
Normal people do not understand his reasons. Why he was obsessed with occultism? Why he secluded himself in a desert island? Why teasing the family with such a worthless riddle?
If his actions were perfectly understandable by anyone, he wouldn't be a genius.

[Nontype]

I'm wondering what you guys think of the pony theory.

Also, is it possible that

Spoiler for Episode 4:

Battler was delivered by casearian? He can say "Battler is Asumu's child" but not "I was born of asumu?" It worked in Macbeth, after all.

[Joneleth]

No.

Spoiler for red:

You are not Ushiromiya Asumu's son

* (Used by Beatrice to refer to Battler.)

[Used Can]

What if the red refers to another Ushiromiya Asumu? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Used Can

What if the red refers to another Ushiromiya Asumu? HMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM?

Then that's a really really cheap trick. I rather believe that Ryukishi wouldn't resort to such a lame trick and I fully believe Beato wouldn't resort to such a tactic either, since she was ALREADY tricking him by saying that he wasn't Kinzo's grandson because Asumu wasn't his mother.

[Catmask]

Excuse me for interrupting the topic your talking about, but I noticed
something creepy. ^^" (I don't know whether someone noticed it before or not.)

Spoiler for Portrait Ep.5:

Who's hand is that? The person seems to be dead (look at the blood).
Do you think the hand is there because of a special reason?
Does it relate in any way to Erika?

Excuse me if this was asked some time ago.

[momobunny]

Originally Posted by Catmask

Excuse me for interrupting the topic your talking about, but I noticed
something creepy. ^^" (I don't know whether someone noticed it before or not.)

Spoiler for Portrait Ep.5:

Who's hand is that? The person seems to be dead (look at the blood).
Do you think the hand is there because of a special reason?
Does it relate in any way to Erika?

Excuse me if this was asked some time ago.

It was noticed back in July when it first came out.
It's still unknown who the hand belongs to... but I'm guessing it doesn't really matter at this point.

[Nontype]

Originally Posted by Marion

Then that's a really really cheap trick. I rather believe that Ryukishi wouldn't resort to such a lame trick and I fully believe Beato wouldn't resort to such a tactic either, since she was ALREADY tricking him by saying that he wasn't Kinzo's grandson because Asumu wasn't his mother.

What? Kinzo isn't related to Asumu.

Also,

Spoiler for Pony Theory (Ep 3&4):

[Tyabann]

Originally Posted by Renall

I'm still hoping for a flashback to the 30s or 40s to see what Kinzo was really like.

Ten bucks says he looks and talks exactly like Battler.

[TsundereCake]

Originally Posted by Kaisos Erranon

Ten bucks says he looks and talks exactly like Battler.

- Until he turns into a creepy rapist
We can only hope that Battler doesn't turn out the same way xD

[Marion]

Originally Posted by Nontype

What? Kinzo isn't related to Asumu.

Also,

Spoiler for Pony Theory (Ep 3&4):

Exactly. Beato was basically tricking him. She said that Battler wasn't qualified to be her opponent because Asumu wasn't his mother. But since Asumu isn't directly related to Kinzo that doesn't make sense. She knew Battler would freak out too much to even interject and say that though. Not that you can blame him.

And yes I know what the pony theory is :P

[ErenselTheJester]

The "Pony" Theory... Ah! Battler is the reincarnation of Kinzo's heart and soul in the same way that Beatrice was reincarnated as a physical being. Thus, Battler has the same mentality as Kinzo did back when he was sane. Consequently, Beatrice and Battler spoke to each other, but when they did, Battler wasn't speaking as Battler but as Kinzo's reincarnate with Beatrice recognizing him as both Kinzo and Battler. Sadly, when Battler gave up his name as an Ushiromiya, he also gave up his identity as Kinzo's reincarnation and thus broke his promise. This can also lead to speculation that Battler's promise to Beatrice was "I'll uphold the Ushiromiya name, revive you, and we'll be together forever."

[Kaiba]

Nontype, your image link isn't working, so I have no clue what you're talking about.

Originally Posted by ErenselTheJester

The "Pony" Theory... Ah! Battler is the reincarnation of Kinzo's heart and soul in the same way that Beatrice was reincarnated as a physical being. Thus, Battler has the same mentality as Kinzo did back when he was sane. Consequently, Beatrice and Battler spoke to each other, but when they did, Battler wasn't speaking as Battler but as Kinzo's reincarnate with Beatrice recognizing him as both Kinzo and Battler. Sadly, when Battler gave up his name as an Ushiromiya, he also gave up his identity as Kinzo's reincarnation and thus broke his promise. This can also lead to speculation that Battler's promise to Beatrice was "I'll uphold the Ushiromiya name, revive you, and we'll be together forever."

The sin I am now demanding that you remember is not between Ushiromiya Battler and Beatrice.
How do you get around that?

And also note that is not the only variation of the pony theory - I subscribe to it myself, using Shannon.

[Jan-Poo]

That's right. The pony theory works better with Shannon as the subject.

Theorizing that the promise was made to a real Beatrice that was disguising as Shannon only complicates things, but I guess this passage was added by those that don't want to break the George+Shannon couple.

And still I find ironic that someone that supports the pony theory fails to notice who is the one that better remembers Battler's embarrassing statements of 6 years before.

[Kitsu]

Nontype, your image link isn't working, so I have no clue what you're talking about.

Basically it's about that there was another Beatrice. Who was hidden in Kuwadorian and protected by Genji and Kumasawa. Shanno was hired as a playmate for the new Beatrice. Beato wanted to know how the outside looks alike and how the Ushiromiya family is like. So Shannon and her switch places. Battler and Beato meet. Battler is dumb and doesn't notice. Battler promises Beato to come back on a white hourse and does the "See you again" line. The promise. Battler forgot that over the years and this is his sin.

The sin I am now demanding that you remember is not between Ushiromiya Battler and Beatrice.
How do you get around that?

During that time Beatrice was Virgillia (at least in the pony theory) and "Beato" had a differten name. (It is suspected to be "Maria" in the pony theory)

I'm not really sure what to think about this theory. I kinda thinks it feels off somehow. Maybe if it would explain why everyone dies it would be more plausible for me. Cuase
Because of your sin people die on ROkkenjima but why would Beato or anyone else kill unrelated family members if it was such a promise. Especially since in the pony theory...Beato gets dragged in (means she is innocent)..so I think the sin part doesn't amke really sense or something. But maybe someone here an explain that to me

but I guess this passage was added by those that don't want to break the George+Shannon couple.

I think its more likely because they want Beato to exist

[Jan-Poo]

That's a weak theory since the girl that was living in Kuwadorian in 1967 was called Beatrice. In that case Virgilia would be a successor instead of a predecessor, and that makes absolutely no sense.

[Kitsu]

That's a weak theory since the girl that was living in Kuwadorian in 1967 was called Beatrice. In that case Virgilia would be a successor instead of a predecessor, and that makes absolutely no sense.

Like I said I think this theory is kinda off at some parts. I jsut put down the stuff on the picture since Kaiba said he couldn't see it.
I kinda still believe
The sin I am now demanding that you remember is not between Ushiromiya Battler and Beatrice.
means in that case really
This sin is not between you and me

[Jan-Poo]

That's also the most probable scenario in my opinion. Which is the main reason that while i'm 90% sure Battler sinned against Shannon, I'm not so sure that Shannon is Beatrice.

In other words Beatrice could be someone who particularly cares for Shannon.

[Kitsu]

That's also the most probable scenario in my opinion. Which is the main reason that while i'm 90% sure Battler sinned against Shannon, I'm not so sure that Shannon is Beatrice.

Whle I'm not sure that Battler sinned against Shannon, I also have the feeling that the promise part is right. I mean there are just to mayn subtle hints and that stuff but no matter how hard I think about it. I can't imagine someone going on a killing spree because Battler promised to come back on a white horse and didn't do it. I mean, what kind of maniac...
Because of your sin people die on Rokkenjima
Was there a red truth saying which year? I just can't remember clearly. I mean in what year those people die?

In other words Beatrice could be someone who particularly cares for Shannon.

i think there is still the high chance of more than one Beatrice. To be exact two. Just who got hurt due the sin? I think EP 6 will make a lot of things more clearer or amybe messier at that parts.

[Nontype]

Originally Posted by Kaiba

Nontype, your image link isn't working, so I have no clue what you're talking about.

Does it work now? if not, try this link http://img.imgcake.com/pony_theory.jpg

It actually addresses your concern about the sin "not being between battler and beatrice" in a pretty interesting way. Personally, I like it, but I don't think it's true. It would make for an interesting AU though. Reading the Easymodo threads does really flesh it out, too.