Sasuke vs. Neji

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by UserName

He did kill him. But it wasn't shown how he did it I belive. But it was shown tha th edid kill that ninja.

Re-read what i said.

I don't know if it crossed your mind it might have been possible that he didn't want ot kill her... Only render her uncunscious at most. Also I would think he can control the amount of chakra he can say send in or whatever.

Once again re-read what I said : Neji was trying to kill Hinata, he screwed her heart with his blows, it's stated by Kurenai after the fight.
Get real, one month later Hinata wasn't healed from the wounds inflicted by Neji and was still spitting blood and had to be healed by Kabuto.

Wow that's bullshit becuase he was fooled and underestimated where all people so far have underestimated or fooled by him even the sannins. I won't say that proves my point wrong. And you can in fact predict the outcome if you gain an insight into something it's common sense. Not necessarily Naruto specific.

It's a bullshit because Neji clearly misinterpreted the attack pattern of his opponent, as much for your divination.
For your common sense, yes it's perfectly possible, I don't doubt that Neji has great analysis capacities, actually i think it's obvious.
Which simply isn't the same as the clear capacity of the Sharingan to predict the movements of the opponents, it's not a 'Byakugan divination' invented out of no-where, just an analyze of what he saw.
...Which can be completely inaccurate. As Naruto said, that's not because you can see everything that you know everything, neither that you understand everything.

I never said his style. I meant the Kaiten and 64 Hands of Hakke. the feild of hakke which is shown in the 64 Hands of Hakke is related to divination. If I remember correctly it's like a system for prediction.

I perfectly understand what you meant and the Kaiten and the 64 hands of Hakke are Jyuken moves, ie part of his style.
And so once again re-read what I said : the Jyuken is inspired of real internal martial arts 'using' the figures of the IChing the book of divination.

Yes... I forgout to add ability every single time even though I did add ability before...

It's not just about forgetting a word, it's completely different.
The eyes of the Hyuga (ie the Byakugan) is a bloodline limit as well as the Sharingan for the Uchiha, but their eyes isn't the only difference with others people.
Kakashi is a good example of that, he has the eye but he hasn't a true Uchiha's body which is why he can't use properly the Sharingan, it's the same for the Hyuga (even if it's simplier to say Sharingan/Byakugan to call the bloodline as a whole).

I belive someone said that Neji will not be a competition for Sasuke due to the story's worth and that his part of the story is over. I'm pointing out that he still has a long ways to go unless Kishimoto decides to kill him off disregarding his whole point.

It's not about killing, neither disregarding.

Spoiler:

it's just that as far as the story goes, Sasuke will be the rival/nemesis of Naruto, and Neji isn't part of that.
Either Naruto will beat Sasuke or be beaten by him, they will not be beaten by another already known Genin.

Well I guess I overestimated your intelligence...

Spoiler:

I didn't meant the web was about speed. Common sense says otherwise. He 'dissapeared' as in he was already up to Kido right away without him noticing and then quickly hakked him. He was able to break free and do all that very quickly. With little notice from Kido.

No actually you overestimated your ability to read.

Spoiler:

Neji didn't 'dissapeared' as Lee or Sasuke did when they're at high speed.
And Kidoumaru did notice him moving but :
1/Kidoumaru hasn't showed any abilities in Taijutsu or speed.
2/ he was only about ten meters away form Neji
3/It's not easy to move when you have a semen spear which link your mouth to a tree.
4/ Neji is fast, everybody already know that.

My point is that Neji isn't a standing rock and that Sasuke isn't all that much faster than Neji. He wont' run circles around him. Yes he is faster(for a short while) but not by a incredible mount.

Once again, indeed Neji's fast and nobody ever says that he was a 'standing rock'.
But Sasuke is faster and thus is able to avoid the close combat if he wants

It's not useless. Sure he can see chakra but while it's up will he attack? Maybe against Sasuke it won't be as effective.

It's utterly useless against Sasuke.
What would be the point except to suffer and use an incredible amount of chakra for nothing.
Sasuke just has to watch Neji exhausting himself for basically nothing, I'm sure he would be graceful of that.

It has to do with it. As the person who posted before me thinks Sasuke will be able to use his wires to defeat the kaiten. And he would be able to learn a jutsu that would be able to defeat it. Even though we don't know of such currently and what are the chances someone will come and show him and such.

I still don't see your point, you enumerated what Neji did against an opponent, this has nothing to do whith a hypothetic jutsu beating the Kaiten(?), and the way Sasuke can use his wires.
If Sasuke can restrict the movements of Neji even for a short moment, it's very good for him given that to approach Neji at close contact is very dangerous.

Someone seems to think that everything of the Hyuuga is related ot the byakugan.
I don't get the Jyuuken thing....

Wasn't his point to say that the way of fighting of the Hyuga is completely related to their bloodline?
The Jyuken is the fighting style passed down in the Hyuga since generations which use their bloodline limits, for Neji who has mastered the Jyuken, it's a simple task to release chakra from his entire body, that's all.

... I said Kakashi called the Hyuuga Leaf's Oldest and Greatest Bloodline and also that the byakugan is 1 of the bloodline 'abilities'(shoudln't forget that or else someone will be on my case....)....

Actually it's not exactly what Kakashi said, in english greatest is tendentious, he said that the Hyuga is the oldest and most Respectable clan (I think A&A chose Noble clan, that works too).

Sasuke hasn't shown that he can stop the kaiten. Which he would need to get past that he needs to bind his legs.

Wel actually he hasn't, the Kaiten push back the attack of the opponent by spinning, the stronger you attack the Kaiten, the stronger you will be pushed back, Sasuke can just launch 'gently' the wires above the Kaiten and wait for when Neji will stop to spin to tighten the knot.

Spoiler:

... Can Sasuke come up with enough wires say around the same amount of that person to stop Neji's kaiten? And I would think that the way the web was made might have something to do with it.

Sasuke has nothing to block the Kaiten, see above.

Originally Posted by hunterx

still wrong

Spoiler:

before neji does the heavenly spin, he releases a large amount of chakra. In the first instance he was already spinning the chakra when the spiders stopped him. In the second instance they latched on to the chakra release preventing it from starting to spin at all.

your wire theory just won't work.

It's not a theory, it's exactly what happens, re-read the chapter 195 more closely.

Spoiler:

page 7, Neji thinks that there is too many spiders to handle, he tries to do the Kaiten, starts to spin his legs as usual but is blocked by a web sticking to his shoulder and hand even before he emitted any bit of chakra.

[raikage]

Originally Posted by Hunter

It took more than 3 hits to take Hinata down, a single hit wouldn't end the fight except for the 64 hands of hakke (which is about 64 hits anyway ).
And the Byakugan hasn't any predicting ability, it 'merely' shows almost everything in the present.

As for Neji vs. Sasuke (and i speak without using the curse seal), they both have a fair chance to win against each others.
This fight is really a though one to predict, I think there are 4 points which can play on the victory or the defeat of these two fighters.

The effect of the curse seal : the curse seal tears off the chakra from the body of the user, allowing to use more chakra than he would be possible and safe in a normal case and thus to use their abilities at their limits.
In the case of Sasuke, that would makes him and his jutsus stronger, faster, etc.
The effect of the level 2 of the curse are still unknown.
Note that Neji could theoretically increase the flow of his chakra in his body with his Jyuken with unknown effects.

Jyuken Taijutsu + Byakugan vs. Gouken Taijutsu + Sharingan : I think that Neji is able to see Sasuke's attack with the Byakugan, and Sasuke is able to see, analyze and predict Neji's attacks with his Sharingan.
The ability of Sasuke to predict the counter attacks could allow him to fight in close combat with Neji during a moment but I think it remains too dangerous, even with the Sharingan to predict the attacks, the 64 hands of Hakke isn't something to take lightly. And even if Neji can't escape a blow, he can use the Kaiten.
Slight advantage for Neji, but insufficient to wedge Sasuke in the gentle fist, it's a draw, neither of these abilities can give a clear edge against the opponent.

Kaiten vs. Chidori : Very hard to predict, there are several possibilities.
1/That could be just a question of amount of chakra, because the more chakra you have, the more the Kaiten will be powerfull so logically it's just a question of chakra : No way that Neji can deflect the Rasengan of Jiraiya or that Sasuke can pierce the Kaiten of Hiashi for example.
And it's here that the curse seal of Sasuke acts, it would allow the focused mass of chakra of the Chidori to pierce the wall of chakra distributed evenly around the body of the Kaiten.

2/But the Kaiten isn't just a wall of chakra, it spins, the chakra is in motion and thus it's possible that chakra's spin whips Sasuke's hand away even if he uses more chakra.

3/What's the result of a the clash of two huge mass of chakra crushing themself into each other?
According to the fight Naruto vs. Neji I'm tempted to say that the result would be an huge explosion.
And this is more dangerous for Neji because the hand of Sasuke is protected by the chakra that heightens the flesh to transform it into a blade.

No conclusion here, too many factors.
Let's wait for Kishimoto's answer ^^

Overall strategy, use of different weapons and weaker jutsu : Both Sasuke and Neji seem to be very good tacticians, I don't think that we can say which one is the best.
But there is a difference, Neji is an awesome tactician in the use of his capacities, he knows perfectly his force and his weakness, his tactics of combat are completely based on the use of the Byakugan combined with his advanced Jyuken.

In the other hand, if Sasuke is mainly an infighter as well, using the Sharingan combined with the Gouken, he uses his Taijutsu abilities with weapons (strings, kunais, shirukens, etc.) and several Katon jutsus.
And that's the point which can give him an edge over Neji, the use of the strings can block the legs of Neji during a critical instant (as Sasuke did against Sakon), The Katon jutsu can force Neji to waste his chakra to execute the Kaiten, so does combined attacks of Kunais/shiruken/strings controled with the Sharingan as against Oro.
Close combat isn't a good idea against Neji but if Sasuke's speed isn't enough to give him an edge over Neji, he's still faster than him and can run around Neji to avoid close combat.
Even if he's unable to find the secret blind angle of the Byakugan (frankly i don't think he could and he hasn't an infinite amount of Kunai as the spider dude), the use of this weapons and jutsus give him an advantage over Neji, perhaps sufficiently to beat him.

Well this fight would be absolutely awesome, Neji and Sasuke are my favorite fighters ^^

But storywise speaking it's now too late for Neji to win against Sasuke.
Without even speaking of the curse seal level 2 which will boost incredibly his power, ie much faster than Lee without the weigth, stronger, etc. I don't believe that the story allows somebody other than Naruto to beat Sasuke now.

On a side note why Dranz removed the [manga] tag of this thread? It was a spoiler thread to begin with, way before the changement of tags, this thread is full of spoilers.

The effect of the curse seal: There are two ways to interpret the Curse Seal's effects - either he fights longer or hits harder. Of course, he could PROBABLY do both, but considering how one would usually fight with some sort of power gain, I'm going to assume that Sasuke would instead choose to hit harder - so much harder that he wouldn't be able to keep it up for very long. This pretty much means that the longer the fight goes, the better it is for Neji. Sasuke gets the inital power boost, but would burn it up fairly quickly.

Jyuuken Taijutsu + Byakugan vs. Gouken Taijutsu + Sharingan: Hard to say in this case - at least as to how much of an effect the Sharingan would have. Sasuke was able to avoid most of Gaara's arsenal with his speed, but failed miserably against Itachi. Since I have no real idea where to put Neji's strikes in this scale, I would simply leave it open as a possibility that Sasuke's Sharingan won't help as much as one might think.

Kaiten vs. Chidori: The only disagreement I have here is in (3) where you say that an explosion would be more dangerous for Neji. Sure, Chidori better protects Sasuke's hand, but what about the rest of him? Kaiten still puts up a formidable barrier around Neji's head, torso, and legs. Chidori protects...just Sasuke's hand.

This is assuming, of course, that Neji would choose to use Kaiten as a counter instead of evading it. The two times I can remember Chidori working,
• Kakashi used the dogs to immobilize Zabuza; would have been dead if not for Haku
• Gaara immobilized himself

When not immobilized, both Itachi and Kakashi have managed to grab Sasuke by the wrist with seemingly no damage to their hands. If Sasuke's hand were on fire instead, there would be heat damage involved by grabbing his wrist. Since there is no damage involved with the Chidori, it is quite possible that even barely avoiding the hit is enough to negate it completely.

But yeah, it would be an awesome fight and in fact makes its way into the Fan book as a tiny little blurb next to other 'dream matches'. I think someone simply submitted his opinion as to how the fight would go, but I haven't sat down and translated it yet.

Concerning the wires and the Kaiten -
• If the wires are tightened up, the Kaiten would quite possibly be able to cut them.
• If the wires are loose, then the Kaiten would be able to push them away momentarily, but probably would then move right back into position. It would be a good way of restricting, but not eliminating Neji's movement.

[hunterx]

Originally Posted by Hunter

It's not a theory, it's exactly what happens, re-read the chapter 195 more closely.

Spoiler:

page 7, Neji thinks that there is too many spiders to handle, he tries to do the Kaiten, starts to spin his legs as usual but is blocked by a web sticking to his shoulder and hand even before he emitted any bit of chakra.

not according to how it was explained in volume 12, chapter 2, page 7

Spoiler:

the chakra is released first, while he is standing still to block the attack from hitting the body. The spinning happens to blast the attack away.

chapter 195, page 8, you'll notice neji is standing still with chakra web all over him, yet he has no trouble jumping up to evade the knives. The webs are not hindering his movements, they are only hindering the chakra he releases before for the heavenly spin

[AnimeNewtype101]

Personally I enjoy Hyuuga Neji over Uchiha Sasuke because to me Neji is more of a leader to me than Sasuke is.

Reasons would be that Neji is alot more stronger than Sasuke is, one example would be that Neji was able to stand on near equal level with a Kyuubified Naruto, also Neji was the only one out of the entire rescue group to be able to defeat the 4 Sounds by himself with no outside help, I mean Chouji only won because of those Special Pills and Shikamaru, Kiba, and Lee only won because of the Sand Trio.

While people may argue that Sasuke was able to stand against Gaara and he fought against all of the 4 Sounds, both those matches was only for a short while and he lost them both, I mean Neji was able to fight Kyuubi-Naruto after fighting a full-power regular Naruto and he used moves like Kaiton and that 64-finger thingy.......... jutsus that waste alot of Chakra.

Neji is also alot smarter and probably makes better decisions than Sasuke does. Point in case Sasuke panicked so much during Team 7's first encounter with Orochimaru that he was willing to do anything to just get of there completely forgetting about the obvious consequences of his decisions like deception, I mean I don't think Neji would have done the same.......... don't know what he would have done but it definately would not have been to just give up and attempt to run away.

Another thing is that Neji has alot more better techniques (jutsus) in my opinion, there's Byakugan, Kaiton, and other complicated Hyuuga techniques. On the other hand Sasuke has alot of katon jutsus, Sharigan, and Chidori.

However like it has been stated in other posts Chidori is not that hard a move to defeat, I mean all you have to do is avoid it or grab onto the wrist of the person of course you have to be fast enough to do it but as we have seen before during Neji's performance against Kyuubified Naruto, Neji is more than fast enough to dodge Chidori.

The Katon techniques can either be dodged or be deflected with Kaiton, although it seems to me that the Hyuugas should have more long-range techiques or at least concentrate more on speed like Gai/Lee does.

To tell you the truth, I would have loved to see Neji fight against Kimimaro. I mean it would be Byakugan/Kaiton vs. ummmm..... Bone thingies. That would be very interesting to see.

[lotus_lee]

Originally Posted by raikage

The two times I can remember Chidori working,
• Kakashi used the dogs to immobilize Zabuza; would have been dead if not for Haku
• Gaara immobilized himself

Didn't Sasuke get a hit on Gaara when they both dashed towards each other in the forest?

[AznExzztasy]

HEHE, another versus thread!

All right! This one includes Neji too!

Well, considering this versus, i would really like to favor Neji. I just cant stop thinking about the chapter in the manga where Neji fights that guy. I forgot his name though...oh well. But it just shows me how much of character he is and how resilient he is even through the toughest of battles. On the brink of death and yet he still manages to defeat his enemy. Neji's known skills are like Jounin level and allow him to excel as one of the top students in the academy. Sasuke is good, but i doubt he can compare with Neji. Remember when Sasuke fought Rock Lee early in the beginning? Rock Lee is also supposedly weaker than Neji and yet Sasuke had trouble even beating him. Even with curse, Sasuke isnt using his own natural powers, hes relying on something thats unnatural and evil. Thats my opinion. ehh, plus i just dont like Sasuke. lmao

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by raikage

The effect of the curse seal:

I think you underestimate the amount of time that Sasuke can last using the curse seal.

Spoiler:

The 4 Sound fought a fair amount of time using their seal and they were just leaving an all-out fight against the 2 Leaf Jounins.
Beside, given the difference of power between of the Sound nins in curse seal lvl 2 and without it, I really don't think that Neji could last long against a Sasuke in level 2, there wouldn't be a semen web to outsmart the opponent this time.

Jyuuken Taijutsu + Byakugan vs. Gouken Taijutsu + Sharingan:

Gaara was even faster than Sasuke/Lee in half transformed form and thus way faster than Neji.
Itachi.... is Itachi, the difference of level is just too much.
But anyway I kinda agree, close combat remains too dangerous against Neji.

Kaiten vs. Chidori:

The barrier will not protect Neji much if the chakra 'exploses', but in the end I agree, the Chidori will only protect Sasuke's hand which isn't all that

The two times I can remember Chidori working,
• Kakashi used the dogs to immobilize Zabuza; would have been dead if not for Haku
• Gaara immobilized himself

The Chidori worked the 2 others times against Gaara, it's just that hitting the sand isn't really useful (to be fair it made Gaara bleed a little ^^).
The only time the Chidori completely failed was against Itachi... who once again is Itachi.
And Kakashi did catch Sasuke but again Sasuke's level isn't even near Kakashi's.
To grab the wrist of someone running on you like hell with the Chidori is possible if you're already so much better than him that there is no discussion of who will win in the first place.

But yeah, it would be an awesome fight and in fact makes its way into the Fan book as a tiny little blurb next to other 'dream matches'. I think someone simply submitted his opinion as to how the fight would go, but I haven't sat down and translated it yet.

Seriously? I completely missed that.

Concerning the wires and the Kaiten -
• If the wires are tightened up, the Kaiten would quite possibly be able to cut them.
• If the wires are loose, then the Kaiten would be able to push them away momentarily, but probably would then move right back into position. It would be a good way of restricting, but not eliminating Neji's movement.

Yeah the second point was exactly what i was saying, it could be an interesting way to restrict Neji's moves for a short time.

Originally Posted by hunterx

not according to how it was explained in volume 12, chapter 2, page 7

Spoiler:

the chakra is released first, while he is standing still to block the attack from hitting the body. The spinning happens to blast the attack away.
chapter 195, page 8, you'll notice neji is standing still with chakra web all over him, yet he has no trouble jumping up to evade the knives. The webs are not hindering his movements, they are only hindering the chakra he releases before for the heavenly spin

No, you didn't see what neji did.

Spoiler:

page 8 Neji cut the webs all around him with his gentle fist and barely avoid the kunai which was almost in his blind spot, he didn't jump with the webs on him, during the whole fight neji was forced to cut the webs before moving.
That was the whole problem of Neji during this fight, Kidoumaru kept launching kunais and spiders which binded Neji all the time.
Neji was forced to avoid all the kunais, to strike all the spiders and couldn't use the Kaiten because while he was avoiding to be stroke by the kunais, he was binded by the spiders, and so goes on...

Then frankly this fight bugged me too (there is even a thread about that somewhere...) because the way the Kaiten was explained in the volume 12 seemed to allow Neji to use the Kaiten (the first part anyway) even immobilized and actually even with the webs stopping the spin of the chakra on him given that the first part of the Kaiten isn't about chakra rotation, it just about emiting a large amount of chakra as a barrier and to emit chakra wasn't impossible, Neji did that while binded to alter the momentum of a kunai.
So why Neji couldn't use the Kaiten at least a little? Quite frankly I think it's a glinch in the story, in the same way Neji was able to cut all the webs completely immobilized using all his body chapter 193, and doesn't seem to be able to do that anymore after that.
The only logical explanation about this is that Neji can't emit chakra in the way which cut the webs and in the way which stops the the attack at the same time and that he was too pressured by the continual wave of attacks to do the both things.

[raikage]

I wasn't trying to state that Neji could catch Sasuke's wrist, but that someone being able to move out of the path of Chidori isn't unheard of at all. Neji may be fast enough to sidestep the move, duck, jump out of the way, a hundred things other than to Kaiten it.

I also didn't mean that Neji was the equal of Itachi, but considering how Itachi tends to use nin/genjustu rather than taijutsu, and the fact that Neji excels in all things taijutsu-related, that the concept of Neji being quick enough to react to Chidori is once again not too far off IMHO.

Fan Book, not Character Data Book, pages 114-116 for the matchups.

And, AznExzztasy, Neji is NOT a Jounin level ninja at all.

[yinstro]

someone said chouji cheated using pills, but those pills are actually a part of his family clans secret ninjutsu etc, kinda lame if your gonna discount pills, those are considered weapons according to the chuunin fight.

One thing about the sasuke can learn new techniques to beat neiji science. i think its kinda outside the realm of the manga/anime to go by what people could learn to fight another. who knows what neiji can learn on his own. I think its a big variable if you do that.
even if you do though i think you should at least limit it to techniques that you have seen someone in the series use. I really dont think wires would be the key to dfeating someone who supposedly can see everything in around him. lets not forget kaiten is far from neijis only defense, a person with excellent taijutsu skills should be able to effectively dodge most physical attacks. By in fact not using kaiten but using your own dodging skills. neiji should be able to see wire, and cut it with a regulation kunai also i believe.
Looking at lee, taijutsu skill of high level and an ability to deflect attacks with chakra (not just kaiten, actually dfelecting with chakra to a specific part of his body) should give him an ability to deal with many jutsu's

[AnimeNewtype101]

Originally Posted by yinstro

someone said chouji cheated using pills, but those pills are actually a part of his family clans secret ninjutsu etc, kinda lame if your gonna discount pills, those are considered weapons according to the chuunin fight.

I didn't say Chuji cheated, I said Chouji only won because of those pills if it wasn't for those pills Chouji would have lost even before the enemy went to Curse Seal Level 2.

Don't get me wrong, I happen to like Chouji, Shikamaru, Kiba, and Lee as well but facts are facts and the fact is without those pills or the Sand Trio they could not have won against their own opponents one-on-one.



Sorry.

[Hunter]

Originally Posted by raikage

I wasn't trying to state that Neji could catch Sasuke's wrist, but that someone being able to move out of the path of Chidori isn't unheard of at all. Neji may be fast enough to sidestep the move, duck, jump out of the way, a hundred things other than to Kaiten it.

Sidestep the Chidori is way from easy against someone having the Sharingan to predict this sidestep

I also didn't mean that Neji was the equal of Itachi, but considering how Itachi tends to use nin/genjustu rather than taijutsu, and the fact that Neji excels in all things taijutsu-related, that the concept of Neji being quick enough to react to Chidori is once again not too far off IMHO.

Well actually it's not even comparable, without even speaking of Itachi, the speed of the Jounin is simply overwhelming compared to Neji's, the moment when Neji in rage run on Hinata for the kill and suddenly all the Jounin appear instantaneously to stop him like nothing speak for itself.

Yinstro, indeed it would be very difficult to catch Neji with wires due to his insane reflexes and his Byakugan, but it's not impossible.
One of the main ability of the Sharingan is to see through the attack pattern of his opponents, to predict the way they will moves.
The Byakugan allows to know 'everything' in the present, but the Sharingan is always one step above because it can predict how the opponent will react to this present.
It was enough to survive the attack of Gaara who was way faster than Sasuke and it's all good against someone slower even if it's not by very much.

Besides the wires are metalic and they can handle a Kaiton jutsu, they're not so easy to cut.
Sasuke can force Neji to use the Kaiten relatively easily, he just has to use a very big Katon jutsu (the Goukakyu no jutsu would be perfect for that) and use the wires immediately while Neji is still spinning.

My point isn't even to say that Neji couldn't escape from all that, just that Sasuke has the capacities and the tools to catch Neji and eventually to beat him.
Just as Neji as the capacities to beat Sasuke.

[Dauthi]

Gaaras weakpoint was that he holds still, mostly because he doesnt have to move his defense is just too great, and nobody had ever injured him untill Sasuke came around, to me thats pretty good.

Spoiler:

then in the fight against the 4 sound nins, of course he lost, he had no chance. Then again Kidomarou in curse seal lvl 2 would have no chance against 4 of the genins, and in fact they wouldnt break a sweat.

Sure Neji doesnt hold still, but im sure he has weakpoints, or jutsus suited to fighting the hyuuga style. It would be interesting to see what Sasuke would have come up with, just like it was interesting to see what he came up with for Gaara.

Of course its unknown if there are any jutsus that would help vs. a hyuuga, but Kakashi knows plenty of jutsu, so im positive he could help with this.

[epyon96]

Hmm..I'm curious what would happen if Neji did jyukan near Sasuke's precious eyes (since the technique doesn't require contact). Would Sasuke be blind or just completely messed?

EPYON

[Hunter]

The Jyuken does require contact epyon, a slight touch is enough but necessary.

[epyon96]

Originally Posted by Hunter

The Jyuken does require contact epyon, a slight touch is enough but necessary.

Can you be absolutely sure of that? I recall in previous discussiosn that the general consus and the assumptions were based on the assumption that Jyukan does not...

Perhaps new evidence popped up recently to discount that..

EPYON

[Anthriel]

Originally Posted by epyon96

Can you be absolutely sure of that? I recall in previous discussiosn that the general consus and the assumptions were based on the assumption that Jyukan does not...

Perhaps new evidence popped up recently to discount that..

EPYON

When it was introduced it was said it requires body contact. If it wouldn't, it wouldn't be a taijutsu style. And the fight between Hinata and Neji would have been completely different.

[hunterx]

Originally Posted by Hunter

Spoiler:

page 8 Neji cut the webs all around him with his gentle fist and barely avoid the kunai which was almost in his blind spot, he didn't jump with the webs on him, during the whole fight neji was forced to cut the webs before moving.
That was the whole problem of Neji during this fight, Kidoumaru kept launching kunais and spiders which binded Neji all the time.
Neji was forced to avoid all the kunais, to strike all the spiders and couldn't use the Kaiten because while he was avoiding to be stroke by the kunais, he was binded by the spiders, and so goes on...

Then frankly this fight bugged me too (there is even a thread about that somewhere...) because the way the Kaiten was explained in the volume 12 seemed to allow Neji to use the Kaiten (the first part anyway) even immobilized and actually even with the webs stopping the spin of the chakra on him given that the first part of the Kaiten isn't about chakra rotation, it just about emiting a large amount of chakra as a barrier and to emit chakra wasn't impossible, Neji did that while binded to alter the momentum of a kunai.
So why Neji couldn't use the Kaiten at least a little? Quite frankly I think it's a glinch in the story, in the same way Neji was able to cut all the webs completely immobilized using all his body chapter 193, and doesn't seem to be able to do that anymore after that.
The only logical explanation about this is that Neji can't emit chakra in the way which cut the webs and in the way which stops the the attack at the same time and that he was too pressured by the continual wave of attacks to do the both things.

It bugs you because our assumptions are not consistent with what happens

Spoiler:

In your explanation, the spiders are physically holding neji so he can't spin. Yet it is inconsistent with how it was explained in volume 12. The chakra release should be able to block the knives even if he is held to a standstill.

In my explanation, the spiders are taking down the chakra neji releases to block the knives, so he has to physically move to avoid them. Consistent how the kaiten works in volume 12

[VMLM3]

Hunterx's explanation was the way I understood it as well, Neji doesn't have to move to use the Kaiten.

[Mcdougal]

Originally Posted by AnimeNewtype101

While people may argue that Sasuke was able to stand against Gaara and he fought against all of the 4 Sounds, both those matches was only for a short while and he lost them both, I mean Neji was able to fight Kyuubi-Naruto after fighting a full-power regular Naruto and he used moves like Kaiton and that 64-finger thingy.......... jutsus that waste alot of Chakra.

Actually, he DID manage to defeat Gaara the first time around. Gaara was drained to the point that his teammates had to bail his sorry ass out of there. Had sasuke hit him in any vital areas as opposed to his shoulder gaara would have been Chidori shishkebab. The second time around was quite different, and i sincerly doubt that any of the genin sans naruto could have done anything against him, including a fully rested Neji. Hell, i doubt they could have done anything to him in his normal mode.

Neji is also alot smarter and probably makes better decisions than Sasuke does. Point in case Sasuke panicked so much during Team 7's first encounter with Orochimaru that he was willing to do anything to just get of there completely forgetting about the obvious consequences of his decisions like deception, I mean I don't think Neji would have done the same.......... don't know what he would have done but it definately would not have been to just give up and attempt to run away.

I may be a minority on this one, but it's better to live to fight another day than to just die. Just exactly what would getting killed have accomplished? Nothing. On the other hand, had they managed to escape the only thing they would have lost would have been their pride. They would have still been able to complete the mission by stealing other peoples scrolls. Naruto may have been couragous, but there IS a point where courage stops being a virtue and crosses over into stupidity. The smartest thing to do in the situation they were in would have been to escape. Granted, the best choice would have been to distract the enemy somehow and then making a more dignified getaway with your own scroll intact instead of the admittadly cowardly way Sasuke did it in, but as you stated, he was kinda...panicky. Anyway, had Neji decided to engage he enemy then he would have been an arrogant fool. The wise ninjas know their limits, and they know when it's time to fight and when it's time to retreat. You didn't see Kabuto rushing in after kakashi during their two encounters did you?

[VMLM3]

Originally Posted by Mcdougal

Actually, he DID manage to defeat Gaara the first time around. Gaara was drained to the point that his teammates had to bail his sorry ass out of there. Had sasuke hit him in any vital areas as opposed to his shoulder gaara would have been Chidori shishkebab. The second time around was quite different, and i sincerly doubt that any of the genin sans naruto could have done anything against him, including a fully rested Neji. Hell, i doubt they could have done anything to him in his normal mode.

Actually Gaara's brothers didn't bail him out because they feared for his life, they bailed him out because they where worried he might lose control and let out Shukaku before he was supposed to.

Originally Posted by Mcdougal

I may be a minority on this one, but it's better to live to fight another day than to just die. Just exactly what would getting killed have accomplished? Nothing. On the other hand, had they managed to escape the only thing they would have lost would have been their pride. They would have still been able to complete the mission by stealing other peoples scrolls. Naruto may have been couragous, but there IS a point where courage stops being a virtue and crosses over into stupidity. The smartest thing to do in the situation they were in would have been to escape. Granted, the best choice would have been to distract the enemy somehow and then making a more dignified getaway with your own scroll intact instead of the admittadly cowardly way Sasuke did it in, but as you stated, he was kinda...panicky. Anyway, had Neji decided to engage he enemy then he would have been an arrogant fool. The wise ninjas know their limits, and they know when it's time to fight and when it's time to retreat. You didn't see Kabuto rushing in after kakashi during their two encounters did you?

Orochimaru wasn't going to let him live, he was lying. Besides that, I don't think this is a valid point, it's true that Sasuke panicked, but I'm not so sure other genins wouldn't have done the same thing. Sasuke was completely over powered in a real life and death situation, something that had never happened to him before. Both neji and Sasuke are equally confident of their abilities, if neji had been so obviously over powered maybe he would've panicked too. Naruto had already passed his panick, he had more experience with fear and was more capable of handleing himself, Sakura simpy doesn't do anything anyway.