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View Poll Results: Nisemonogatari - Episode 07 Rating | |||
Perfect 10 | 31 | 33.33% | |
9 out of 10 : Excellent | 29 | 31.18% | |
8 out of 10 : Very Good | 17 | 18.28% | |
7 out of 10 : Good | 8 | 8.60% | |
6 out of 10 : Average | 7 | 7.53% | |
5 out of 10 : Below Average | 1 | 1.08% | |
4 out of 10 : Poor | 0 | 0% | |
3 out of 10 : Bad | 0 | 0% | |
2 out of 10 : Very Bad | 0 | 0% | |
1 out of 10 : Painful | 0 | 0% | |
Voters: 93. You may not vote on this poll |
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2012-02-21, 02:25 | Link #81 | |
Professional Hikkikomori
Join Date: Feb 2009
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2012-02-21, 02:42 | Link #82 |
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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If the ride becomes tougher, oh well. I still enjoy Nise overall, just not nearly as much as Bake. Just because I criticize it doesn't mean the experience was painful or anything.
Your advice is unneeded.
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2012-02-21, 04:40 | Link #83 | |
Critical fanboy
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: Anywhere with anime and anime discussion is fine
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I never said that Koyomi is an uninteresting harem lead. Actually, it’s just as you said, I find him to be one of the most interesting male protagonists I've ever seen. I just prefer Oshino more in terms of a character because he is the odd one out if he happens to get his own harem. For one thing, unlike Koyomi, he is no high school student, and doesn't live an ordinary life. Why he keeps on traveling endlessly and saving people from oddities? Does he even have any goal in life? Not much is known about him which gives him an air of mystery. He guides people so they can save themselves, but in the end of the day Koyomi gets all the girls. Oshino deserves a taste of heavens and hells of having an unwanted harem, abet a more mature set of females than Koyomi harem, around twenty something. Nonetheless, he could've made a more unique harem lead than Koyomi IMO. |
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2012-02-21, 04:51 | Link #84 | |
~AD~
Join Date: Oct 2006
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I dare not question that night... Because an accident may fall under me... (like suddenly 30k++ pencil suddenly fall out of nowhere on my top of my bed) In the end, sory, i am a heavy Araragi x Hitagi shipper... So i am not questiong that... |
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2012-02-21, 05:08 | Link #85 |
Banned
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I like Oshino too, and its a shame he left after Kizu/Bake; but the thing is that he served his purpose as Koyomi's mentor, and its time for Koyomi and his harem to move on. Also the way he was presented he wouldn't make an interesting couple with anyone, except Shinobu, and that would distract even more some viewers than the current ecchi/morality levels
For Hitagi, she is not admitting anything, just realizing when reflecting upon her former self, when facing Kaiki, how and why she was thinking the way she was then and now. My understanding is that she came to realize that relying on the crab was a mistake, and now that she can compare Koyomi to Kaiki, that her fear of sex, is not only unfair but limiting her more than her lover. In any case, that's my understanding of her character development (she pretty much behaved like Kaiki was in town for her, and tried to hide it from Koyomi, didn't care about his sister, and even got agitated when Kaiki played around with her countless insecurities). Generally, it's not like the characters in the Monogatari series are flat like other shows, they are presented more realistically and progressively, so it's not easy to attribute behaviours clearly. |
2012-02-21, 05:25 | Link #86 | |||
Senior Member
Join Date: Aug 2010
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Then again, talking about it in terms of manga may not be fitting. For whatever the reason, the novels started having over 300 pages each. You have to just get used to it, this is the rhythm of a LN adaptation (a decently written LN, at least). It is the same for Mouretsu Pirates for example. Truth to be told, I used to watch old anime, so I fail to see this kind of rhythm as slow. I think movies should provide better adaptation than TV series though. Quote:
And I think the story about spreading chara development too thin is misguided. There is a limit to the chara development a chara can receive. Once a character has fully developed, it must be cut. Quote:
If we deduct your personal view on the length of the arc, Karen Bee has objective merits. 1) a valid human antagonist 2) non linear storytelling 3) juggles all the characters in the series (which for me is a merit) I repeat, I personally rank Nise better than Bake. |
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2012-02-21, 07:51 | Link #87 | |
✘˵╹◡╹˶✘
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: Australia
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Damn you Araragi!! Anyway, anyone know how Karen and Tsukihi address each other?
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2012-02-21, 09:05 | Link #88 | |
Knowledge is the solution
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: St. Louis, MO
Age: 39
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/thread In my opinion *mongatari has always been about the character dynamics rather than character development or exploration, so the more characters the better I say.
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2012-02-21, 10:10 | Link #90 | |
Senior Member
Join Date: Mar 2008
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My doubt is because that line I mentioned is long after koyomi's question... ,hitagi was talking about how she fell for him and that's why when she dropped this line.. I was like.. First what? But yes.. I think the same as you. |
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2012-02-21, 10:45 | Link #91 |
Senior Member
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Given the slower pacing of Nise compared to Bake, I decided that I would wait for this arc to finish off before commenting on it again (after my last comment a few episodes back). Now that the arc is over, I do have a few comments to make.
1) Kaiki was an excellent antagonist. His scenes were consistently golden, and he gave the overall narrative some much-needed heft and purpose. 2) The dialogue in most scenes was very good, as usual. This was especially true of any scene involving Hitagi and/or Kaiki. 3) Some scenes dragged more than what was necessary, in my opinion. If Nise had trimmed some fat here, so to speak, then I think we'd have an excellent, tight, well-executed 6-episode arc. I'd only have some minor nitpicks to make then. As is, though, I'm inclined to agree with some of Reckoner's broader criticisms. 4) I honestly had no problem with the main conflict of this arc being resolved purely through a face-to-face conversation. In fact, it's kind of fitting for this series. But with that being said... 5) I get the feeling that Shinbo himself likely thought "This final episode is going to be awfully anti-climatic if we don't have a great fight scene in it, so let's make Karen vs. Koyomi seem like DBZ meets a deserted city!" As fun as that is, it did feel a bit overdone to me. A case of trying too hard, imo. 6) As with Bake, Hitagi is the key indispensable character. As with Bake, my appreciation and rating for an episode would consistently end up higher if Hitagi had a lot of screen-time than if she had none or very little. The other female characters are good, but they generally can't carry scenes, imo (Koyomi himself can sometimes carry scenes, thankfully, but not always). Hitagi consistently carries scenes. 7) Koyomi's sisters received some decent development here, although it was a bit less than I had hoped for. The same is true of Hitagi. Tiny tidbits of new info came out on most of the characters, but not much. Ultimately, I find the overall level of character development pretty disappointing for a show as dialogue-driven as this one is. With all of this dialogue, it would be nice if more of it could be directed to characters talking about themselves in more detailed fashion, letting us learn more about them. 8) With all of the above in mind, I personally rank Bake better than Nise, but Nise is still a good anime overall.
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2012-02-21, 10:54 | Link #92 | ||
Banned
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EDIT: After reading 3xR's post, needless to say I agree in everything except the length of the scenes (many felt compressed to me), and the overall ranking, for me its more like this:
Last edited by Malkuth; 2012-02-21 at 11:05. |
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2012-02-21, 11:01 | Link #93 |
Kamaboko smash & grab
Join Date: Nov 2009
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Since we're comparing, for me Shinobu's been a highlight of Nise so far, and her first appearance was as good as Bake's episode 12 car conversation. Araragi's conflict with his sisters up to the resolution with Karen this episode was great too. Araragi X Hitagi has been a bit disappointing though, their parts never end satisfyingly even if the book supposedly leaves the good stuff out as well.
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2012-02-21, 11:17 | Link #94 |
Senior Member
Author
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Oh, one thing I forgot - Superb seiyu work in this.
SHAFT has done a great job with getting excellent voice talent for its two franchise properties of Monogatari and Madoka Magica (Chiwa Saito, Eri Kitamura, and Emiri Kato playing key roles in both).
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2012-02-21, 11:28 | Link #95 |
iceman
Scanlator
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: CO, USA
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As much as I found the dialogue between our protagonists and Kaiki interesting and confusing, I was still hoping on Shinobu coming out and getting him good, or something along those lines of beating up Kaiki. Especially with all the insult Gahara took, I'm surprised nothing happened. Or perhaps it was important that they do nothing, to show Gahara's control over her trauma and fears, to prove to Gahara herself that she is strong enough to not fall for such petty temptations.
I LOLed when Shinobu mentioned about letting Araragi pet her breasts, and despair followed. Oh Araragi, where did your noble pedophile heart go? On a different note, is it impossible for Shinobu to go back to her original form, even if its just in shape? Oh yea, and congrats to Araragi and Gahara for graduating from the virgin status.
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2012-02-21, 12:55 | Link #96 | |
Human
Join Date: Aug 2004
Age: 37
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Of course, that doesn't mean Nise is perfect. Related to the pacing issues, it's been kind of repetitive. We learn the same things about Araragi and Karen over and over and over again before finally getting to climax where they put a slight twist on it to create the resolution. I suppose we learn these things while Araragi is talking to different people, but that makes the conversations... half useless? One third useless? I think the story could have been better served by being more focused and not spending so much time on reintroducing the old characters like Sengoku and Kanbaru. |
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2012-02-21, 13:42 | Link #97 | |
On a mission
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And yea, I pretty much agree with your story hierarchy. Though Koyomi Vamp I don't know of.
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2012-02-21, 14:12 | Link #98 | ||||
Bittersweet Distractor
Join Date: Nov 2007
Age: 32
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Whether or not Nisio Osin was thinking this might be the last novel for Monogatari is irrelevant to me. It doesn't change the fact that what I'm seeing here is less enjoyable to me. There's also the idea that all good things must come to an end. Forever extending a franchise with countless introductions of characters, leaving behind the old cast to rot and decay, is bad storytelling. I don't think Monogatari is at this point btw, just a general statement. Quote:
In any case I never said Nise was worthless, just not as good as Bake from my POV.
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2012-02-21, 14:14 | Link #99 | ||||
Senior Member
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People generally like to express themselves, and share their experiences and important background details about themselves, with their friends and loved ones. That's perfectly realistic, in-character (in at least some cases), and not jarring. It would be perfectly natural for Kanbaru to talk about her favorite foods or sports or recent accomplishments, for Tsubasa to talk about her best subjects and some of her personal interests, for Nadeko to talk about her favorite types of shows and games (well, I guess we at least found out she likes Twister ), etc..., etc... We get so few details of this nature on either of the characters, and these are the sorts of things that, in my opinion, can breath some welcomed life and realism into a character while adding to their distinctiveness. These are also the sorts of specific character details that often can't be inferred from unrelated conversation or dialogue. Now this is certainly not the only way to develop characters, but for a show that is as dialogue-driven as this one is (hence not allowing for many instances of 'actions speak louder than words'), I think it's a way that should be used more. Quote:
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Well-written character development leaves a few things to viewer interpretation (since viewers tend to like to have some flexibility in how they perceive their favorite characters) but at the same time gives enough clear-cut development so that pretty much every viewer can spot some character development and appreciate it. Quote:
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