Umineko no Naku Koro ni - Episode 25 Discussion / Poll

[immblueversion]

Originally Posted by AudriSampson

I havent played the VN so I cant compare it to that.. For me this episode was finally some understanding of the cute redhead that gets picked on and beats up goats. With the anime veiwers we havent had that much on Ange to even find a reason to like her.. I dont mind sacrificing an episode to see a character that seems to be so important to the series.

And on top of all that fun I got to see my favorite Redhead of the series having some fun...

Im not really looking forward to next week since that will be the end

And as long as there are rumors or a confirmation that they won't adapt Umineko Chiru as the second season due to poor DVD sales, it's almost depressing for me.

And this is coming from someone who DID play the VN.

[matteas]

This episode was quite good and I liked it. Yet I was furious at the same time, because it became more than obvious that the last episode will make all of us who have read the VN go berserk. It'll be extremely fast-paced and bereft of any emotions, there's no doubt about it. Screw you, Chiaki Kon! へそ噛んで死んじゃえば?

[immblueversion]

Originally Posted by matteas

This episode was quite good and I liked it. Yet I was furious at the same time, because it became more than obvious that the last episode will make all of us who have read the VN go berserk. It'll be extremely fast-paced and bereft of any emotions, there's no doubt about it. Screw you, Chiaki Kon! へそ噛んで死んじゃえば?

Then it's decided:

For an Umineko Chiru anime adaptation to work, Chikai's must not be involved in any way whatsoever. It must be directed by one who knows the best way to do it given what is available.

[Ronove]

Originally Posted by immblueversion

Then it's decided:

For an Umineko Chiru anime adaptation to work, Chikai's must not be involved in any way whatsoever. It must be directed by one who knows the best way to do it given what is available.

Wonderful? Personally, I'm not really into whoever directs (until now anyways). I usually never took part into the whole techincal process, but now I do!
Although, we should at least be happy ONE studio manage to reenact the Umineko Series, although it's a bit crappy.

However! This episode brought more plot and question of the existence of Rokkenjima. Rokkenjima is truly a Scrognier's Cat (Or something). Anything can happen. Anythign can occur. This "Anything", meaning "Beatrice", killed everyone.

Although, the preview of episode 26 seems to show tons of feeling. I doubt the

Spoiler:

Blue Truth and Red Truth fight

would last long though.
Has anyone realized the rushness of the episodes show that there's NO change of backround to represent Red and Blue Truth?

[Shamisen]

Who says this episode wasn't important? Agreed, it's not that great but it seems like it could be important. Ange realized how magic works. I'd say that's pretty big, wouldn't you? Among a few other things too.

[Ronove]

Originally Posted by Shamisen

Who says this episode wasn't important? Agreed, it's not that great but it seems like it could be important. Ange realized how magic works. I'd say that's pretty big, wouldn't you? Among a few other things too.

Of course this episode is very important. It shows the potential of the massacre, ideas, and soups up the mystery. Although, I'm guessing the VN Fans would prefer to see more BeatricexBattler action and since it shows more of the mystery as well.

Pukukukukukukuu.

[CainSonozaki]

Originally Posted by Ronove

Wonderful? Personally, I'm not really into whoever directs (until now anyways). I usually never took part into the whole techincal process, but now I do!
Although, we should at least be happy ONE studio manage to reenact the Umineko Series, although it's a bit crappy.

However! This episode brought more plot and question of the existence of Rokkenjima. Rokkenjima is truly a Scrognier's Cat (Or something). Anything can happen. Anythign can occur. This "Anything", meaning "Beatrice", killed everyone.

Although, the preview of episode 26 seems to show tons of feeling. I doubt the

Spoiler:

Blue Truth and Red Truth fight

would last long though.
Has anyone realized the rushness of the episodes show that there's NO change of backround to represent Red and Blue Truth?

Spoiler:

I saw it and i didnt see any red or blue. unless theyre used when the flashbacks are goin on behind it without the screen going red or blue like before

[Shamisen]

Originally Posted by Ronove

Of course this episode is very important. It shows the potential of the massacre, ideas, and soups up the mystery. Although, I'm guessing the VN Fans would prefer to see more BeatricexBattler action and since it shows more of the mystery as well.

Pukukukukukukuu.

Well, I still very much prefer the VN.

[Isekaijin]

Originally Posted by immblueversion

Then it's decided:

For an Umineko Chiru anime adaptation to work, Chikai's must not be involved in any way whatsoever. It must be directed by one who knows the best way to do it given what is available.

Say it in red! Say it in red!

Ejem, sorry.

Ryukishi is saying what Deen should and shouldn't ignore, right? Was the scene with Ange that important to rush the ending?

I'm utterly dissapointed with episode 24, and the slow pace in this one prevented me from fully enjoying the stakes gouging the gangsters.

I've got now only one thing to say. I don't care about the tea party or the witch tea party for that matters. That weak excuse of blue truth pretty much ruined the fight between Beato and Battler. I only want Ange's crowning moment of awesome well done. That's all I'm asking for, Deen.

[Marion]

Spoiler for Review:

General:
Pacing - A sort of slow pace, but still good. They didn't have to make a lot of things so long though, like Kasumi tearing up the diary could have been shortened, as well as Ange being beaten up.
Music - Kinda boring choices. The song they used when Ange revolted against Kasumi (I think it's some rearrangement of dive to emergency..)
VA's - meh. Seeing as this is the only episode Kasumi got a good amount of lines in I can't say I like Tanaka's voicing for her. The tone itself sounds fine, but just the way it sounds just doesn't appeal to me. Then again I think Tanaka is at her best when she does voices for generally cooler demeanor characters (Kyrie, Major Motoko, Caster, etc). And Miki...eh the Evatrice voice just sounded. It went from a good pitch to a bad pitch several times. As Eva she was fine. Although Satou (Ange) was good.
Art - Probably one of the best episodes in terms of art quality. No huge moments of QUALITY were present and art was generally consistent. I especially liked the way they animated and drew Eva's face implosion.

Although those troll faces looked EXTREMELY cartoony. Especially the double troll with Evatrice and Kasumi.

Pros
-Barely anything was cut. For good or for worse it makes this episode one of the more proper adaptations in the season.
-That elevation map is a clue in a way.
-They kept Ange's monologue about seeing Eva with love.

Cons
-A huge con in this episode is that it doesn't explain that Eva-Beatrice =/= The Black Witch. In the game it had some explanation that Ange only saw Eva-Beatrice because she still had some hate for Eva, but in the anime they completely omit it. I've had to correct several anime only viewers already that Eva-Beatrice is still dead and only appears because Ange sees the Black Witch in Eva's image.
-Kasumi didn't come off as pitiful as much as evil bitch. You're not suppose to hate Kasumi you're suppose to feel sorry for her, because she does give into the chain of hatred, despite Ange giving her a chance to start over.
-Why the hell did Ange kill Eva? I mean really.
-Reused animation for the skyscraper scene.
-Did I really need an entire episode of Kasumi beating Ange up for 2/3rds of the episode.


Overall:
I'm going to ignore the pace for the next episode. It was a bad choice on how they decided to direct it in terms of what they put in, but judging it as a standalone episode and not based on the next episode's pace, this was a solidly done adaptation episode, despite minor quirks.

I'll give it a 7/10. It would have been an 8 or possibly a 9, but forgetting to even explain that Evatrice =/= The Black Witch and among other things in the con, it kind of ruined it for me.

[nchan]

Please tell me, we still have 25 episodes to go. I don't want this anime to end. It just too good.

[Marion]

Originally Posted by nchan

Please tell me, we still have 25 episodes to go. I don't want this anime to end. It just too good.

Sadly I doubt an animation of Chiru at this point. Maybe with an increase in dvd sales (Note 3 is coming out on Wednesday and it holds the last episode of EP 1 and the first episode of EP 2) but the first season will be over on the 23rd.

A good christmas present would be a good final episode, but I doubt it

[Crontica]

This episode was a travesty.
While the pace of this episode was brilliant, it just wasn't worth ruining the finale over.

The island scene and massacre scene could have easily been cut down to 10 minutes.

[matteas]

Originally Posted by Marion

Sadly I doubt an animation of Chiru at this point.
A good christmas present would be a good final episode, but I doubt it

I dare say it in red: "There's no way we will be pleased by the last episode."
Really, the last Battler x Beato scene needs more than half an episode to be good and include everything important. And I don't think it's exaggerated to say that everything in the final scene is important. Even the pauses to build up the emotions. However, in case that half the last episode is devoted solely to the last scene, the rest of the Tea Party will be seriously cut and that's no good, either, as there are a lot of important facts and it provides a big help to understand what happened and what we can be sure about.

I almost forgot, there's still one extremely important scene that has been left out up to now. And there's no way of justifying leaving THAT one out. Without that scene, the following action wouldn't make much sense because it would be deprived of the necessary trigger.

EDIT: I deny what I said. One whole episode would be necessary to make a good last battle in the rose garden, a battle that would include everything. The red, the blue, the emotions, and the important facts.

[Klashikari]

Originally Posted by Isekaijin

Ryukishi is saying what Deen should and shouldn't ignore, right? Was the scene with Ange that important to rush the ending

The more we went through the anime, the least that claim makes sense.
While it is true that Ryukishi might have been present for some points in the anime, the glaring differences and mistakes in the adaptation don't make any sense, and are really close to the very same blunders done in Higurashi adaptation (which was done loosely with Chiaki's fancies it seems).

After so many episodes, we can be sure that Ryukishi basically told them the headlines of what to keep, then the scripters just hacked through the details and the untold scenes.


That being said, yes, Ange VS Kasumi scene is one of the most important scenes of Episode 4, as it has a lot of hints and a good focus on the whole "without love, it cannot be seen" message that spanned over the series, but more precisely in Episode 4. That and being a sheer rollercoaster of emotions (which was helped a lot with "dive to emergency")
That being said, that scene was obviously dragged, and it could have been shortened without losing any subtle element.
It is actually one of my favorite scenes in the whole franchise, yet I really think they dragged it way too much.

[Crontica]

If from the beginning Umineko was an hour long on each episode would it have made a difference?
The level of what this anime has turned out to be so far is plain unacceptable.

[maximilianjenus]

The only miracle that can happen now is having Episode 26 (since 27 will not exist) last more than 20 minutes; while they do that sometimes in dramas, I don't remember that happening for an anime.

[KanonTheFurniture]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

While it is true that Ryukishi might have been present for some points in the anime, the glaring differences and mistakes in the adaptation don't make any sense, and are really close to the very same blunders done in Higurashi adaptation (which was done loosely with Chiaki's fancies it seems).

After so many episodes, we can be sure that Ryukishi basically told them the headlines of what to keep, then the scripters just hacked through the details and the untold scenes.

You know, my friend and I were just talking about this claim of 'Ryukishi is supervising the Anime' the other day, and he was telling me about a similar claim having been made for the remake of The Fog...

Spoiler for chat snippet:

(13:50:40) Russell: I dunno
(13:50:59) Russell: don't know if I trust them at all now
(13:51:41) Russell: Have I told you about the remake of the movie The Fog?
(13:51:44) SG2: Nope
(13:54:18) Russell: Well, in order to put John Carpenter's (the writer/director of the original) name on the movie, that had to get him to consult with them on the movie. In John Carpenter's own words in an interview, the extent to wich he was involved in the making of the movie was that he showed up to the set every morning, had a cup of coffee, and went home. That was all they needed out of him to say that he advised them on their remake.
(13:54:55) Russell: That is why I don't entirely trust the "Ryukishi is advising us" line from DEEN
(13:55:03) SG2: I see
(13:55:27) SG2: I just know that in Higurashi, they crammed 6 arcs into 26 episodes and people raged, Ryukishi included
(13:55:44) SG2: So for Kai he had them make a filler arc to fill in the plotholes they skipped
(13:55:51) SG2: Before the story of Kai proper
(13:56:16) SG2: So I figured he wouldn't want Umineko to go the same route and might pay a little attention to certain scenes
(13:56:24) SG2: But since they un-reded a huge red among other things...
(13:56:26) SG2: I dunno.

It's possible that he was just involved enough for them to make that claim (supposing it's true at all; I know it's been a rumor floating around these boards since the Anime began but I have no idea where it originated), but really had very little creative control. And yeah, seeing how things have progressed, it seems like a lie...EP3 must have just gotten off lucky.

That said, like I mentioned in another thread, I'd rather they make most of their cuts next week in the red/blue battle, to be honest. We're screwed no matter what, but the Anime has already had Critical Red Loss and Anime-only viewers really don't have a chance at solving the mystery with the clues presented to them...if we lose some of the other truths, then so be it. I'd much rather that than have them try to cram it all in and lose all emotion and character development. Ange and Beatrice really need that development, and so I seriously hope that their respective scenes are the least butchered...I'd much rather lose the mystery angle since, let's face it, that's already pretty much gone. Character Development > Facts.

We can still pray for a 45 minute-hour long extended episode 26, but...I'm not sure even Bernkastel could grant us such a miracle.

[maximilianjenus]

yah, I was being VERY hopeful, actually cutting that battle is the best way to go, since they have already cut most of those battles anyway.

[MeoTwister5]

Originally Posted by KanonTheFurniture

You know, my friend and I were just talking about this claim of 'Ryukishi is supervising the Anime' the other day, and he was telling me about a similar claim having been made for the remake of The Fog...

Spoiler for chat snippet:

(13:50:40) Russell: I dunno
(13:50:59) Russell: don't know if I trust them at all now
(13:51:41) Russell: Have I told you about the remake of the movie The Fog?
(13:51:44) SG2: Nope
(13:54:18) Russell: Well, in order to put John Carpenter's (the writer/director of the original) name on the movie, that had to get him to consult with them on the movie. In John Carpenter's own words in an interview, the extent to wich he was involved in the making of the movie was that he showed up to the set every morning, had a cup of coffee, and went home. That was all they needed out of him to say that he advised them on their remake.
(13:54:55) Russell: That is why I don't entirely trust the "Ryukishi is advising us" line from DEEN
(13:55:03) SG2: I see
(13:55:27) SG2: I just know that in Higurashi, they crammed 6 arcs into 26 episodes and people raged, Ryukishi included
(13:55:44) SG2: So for Kai he had them make a filler arc to fill in the plotholes they skipped
(13:55:51) SG2: Before the story of Kai proper
(13:56:16) SG2: So I figured he wouldn't want Umineko to go the same route and might pay a little attention to certain scenes
(13:56:24) SG2: But since they un-reded a huge red among other things...
(13:56:26) SG2: I dunno.

It's possible that he was just involved enough for them to make that claim (supposing it's true at all; I know it's been a rumor floating around these boards since the Anime began but I have no idea where it originated), but really had very little creative control. And yeah, seeing how things have progressed, it seems like a lie...EP3 must have just gotten off lucky.

That said, like I mentioned in another thread, I'd rather they make most of their cuts next week in the red/blue battle, to be honest. We're screwed no matter what, but the Anime has already had Critical Red Loss and Anime-only viewers really don't have a chance at solving the mystery with the clues presented to them...if we lose some of the other truths, then so be it. I'd much rather that than have them try to cram it all in and lose all emotion and character development. Ange and Beatrice really need that development, and so I seriously hope that their respective scenes are the least butchered...I'd much rather lose the mystery angle since, let's face it, that's already pretty much gone. Character Development > Facts.

We can still pray for a 45 minute-hour long extended episode 26, but...I'm not sure even Bernkastel could grant us such a miracle.

Possible as long as the chances aren't 0%.