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Old 2014-09-10, 09:15   Link #1901
Thess
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L-Elf had a more intense and specialized training under Cain himself ("greatest masterpiece") than his companions (who at times were capable of match him as A-drei demostrated) while Lelouch had to survive without royal support and he was the next-in-line heir to the throne for a while, so he received specialized education (whose siblings at times matched or suppressed him like Schneizel demonstrated).
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Old 2014-09-10, 09:22   Link #1902
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Because the vast majority of thugs, murderers and thieves, do not learn anything from their mistakes? Not to mention the political society.
Grow because people make mistakes, people grow up with work, dedication, willpower and lots pesistencia, no one is bound to make mistakes to become a great person.
so for me to get ahead in life, I precisso make mistakes?
If you are a doctor and make mistakes, these mistakes cost the life of a person.
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Old 2014-09-10, 09:31   Link #1903
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Normality is defined by the norm set up by the world building for a series. In A/Z a normal high school student has military training, that was established from episode 1.
I agree, but the norm for the military adults in A/Z high school didn't consist of this training where as Inaho's normal High School in A/Z does, you have to remeber high school for A/Z is different depending on your age group. Lt. Marito didn't recieve the same high school experience that Inaho and his classmates did. The Military integration didn't take place till after Heaven's Fall if I remember correctly.

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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Also going by the writer's interviews it seems as though they did want to him to be normal and yet also a take on the silent mecha anime protagonist trope. How well they are actually doing in depicting that type of character is up for you to decide.
I believe Inaho to be normal, outside of his lack of emtional responses to him. There is nothing abnormal about a student who accels in classes and seaks to deepen his knowldge surrounding his classes. Again though Inaho's supporting cast weren't written well enough to make Inaho shine less and that is something I will agree on.

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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Again no, Inaho never received any more training than his other classmates. Thing is Inaho received general military training, not specialized.
I never said Inaho received more training than his other classmates, what I said was Inaho pursues more training of his own free will. Which makes him above his classmates. 70% of Inaho's screen time is with his tablet in hand, reading about something to do with Kats, Aldnoah Drives, etc... He is continuously reinforcing his knowldge and seeking new information to learn. Which I believe is his strongest trait.

As for the type of military training that his classmates recieved, based off of what was shown breifly in episode one, I'm going to say it was a lot more than just general military training. Its even evident in the fact that when they got drafted they knew exactly what to do from the start. Clam knows how to fine tune kats, nina can effectively pilot an aircraft carrier. The students can do these things at their age... I find it rediculous that you can learn all these specialized skills in different areas with "general" training. Hell the officer that talks to Nina when she was practicing on the aircraft carrier specifically asked her what she scored in a class design to teach her what she was doing... Thats not generalized...
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Old 2014-09-10, 09:56   Link #1904
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Okay, blowing up the hill is a part of 10 years old heir specialized training.

Then, being spectacular at school and military training + having a sister being one of the better soldier can also add up to the skills Inaho have shown so far. Of course, he can't be as good as L-Elf, and he don't need to be.

Alright, while we can go on and on with these arguments upon assumptions, I'm done with the comparision. But anyone could start it when they feel like it. I'm actually more interested in how the work is being designed, like why are characters are designed as they are right now.
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Old 2014-09-10, 10:01   Link #1905
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Originally Posted by Spags View Post
I agree, but the norm for the military adults in A/Z high school didn't consist of this training where as Inaho's normal High School in A/Z does, you have to remeber high school for A/Z is different depending on your age group. Lt. Marito didn't recieve the same high school experience that Inaho and his classmates did. The Military integration didn't take place till after Heaven's Fall if I remember correctly.
Yes, but that was a different time, and back then children didn't military training, but now they do. As time changes so does the definition of normality.



Quote:
I believe Inaho to be normal, outside of his lack of emtional responses to him. There is nothing abnormal about a student who accels in classes and seaks to deepen his knowldge surrounding his classes. Again though Inaho's supporting cast weren't written well enough to make Inaho shine less and that is something I will agree on.
I don't think its the problem of the other cast needed to make Inaho shine less, its the problem that none of them should have been written that way in the first place. Inaho should not have been written to be great at everything and the others especially the adult characters who have more experience and training than Inaho, shouldn't have been written to be so incompetent. Its sad but outside of battles they seem there to make Inaho's side seem more interesting, and it seems as though they overcompensated for that by making Inaho great at everything.

Quote:
As for the type of military training that his classmates recieved, based off of what was shown breifly in episode one, I'm going to say it was a lot more than just general military training. Its even evident in the fact that when they got drafted they knew exactly what to do from the start. Clam knows how to fine tune kats, nina can effectively pilot an aircraft carrier. The students can do these things at their age... I find it rediculous that you can learn all these specialized skills in different areas with "general" training. Hell the officer that talks to Nina when she was practicing on the aircraft carrier specifically asked her what she scored in a class design to teach her what she was doing... Thats not generalized...
Well yes, but again Inaho's skill set and knowledge are shown to be much higher, than his classmates, but no reason is ever to given as to why that is. Can a person realize through general training that their strength is in a certain area, yes, but that is serves as proof to that being their strength it doesn't prove that received any specialized training, to further develop that strength. I have no intention of really debating this because the writing in this series is questionable enough as is.

Last edited by wisteria233; 2014-09-10 at 10:16.
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Old 2014-09-10, 10:42   Link #1906
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wouldn't be surprised if Inaho goes through this whole show without suffering one defeat just because he is MC
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Old 2014-09-10, 10:55   Link #1907
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Please, let's not insult real well written protagonists and use the appropriate label for those type of main characters.
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Old 2014-09-10, 11:02   Link #1908
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... Seriously, after all this time and I'm still bafled by all this Inaho hate and Slaine hate are coming from. Both have their flaws, both have their strong points, so why?
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Old 2014-09-10, 11:09   Link #1909
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Originally Posted by Lhklan View Post
... Seriously, after all this time and I'm still bafled by all this Inaho hate and Slaine hate are coming from. Both have their flaws, both have their strong points, so why?
I don't know about anyone else, but I for one but I for one just find Inaho boring. With others I think its a combination of being tired of seeing him win, and want to see him lose and suffer a bit, or simply don't like him, since they perceive him to be a Gary Stu, and because of the bad writing. Can's say much about the Slaine hate though.
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Old 2014-09-10, 11:09   Link #1910
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Just throwing this out here:

What if there is an (almost) dedicated episode of Inaho for the opening episode (or second) of season two, where we get a glimpse of his past, whatever "normal" it may be, and see the entirety of the first season through his point of view, so to speak.

A typical 'recap episode' where we may learn or observe more of Inaho (and possibly his sister and friends).

Just a thought.
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Old 2014-09-10, 11:10   Link #1911
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Originally Posted by gunner56 View Post
Just throwing this out here:

What if there is an (almost) dedicated episode of Inaho for the opening episode (or second) of season two, where we get a glimpse of his past, whatever "normal" it may be, and see the entirety of the first season through his point of view, so to speak.

A typical 'recap episode' where we may learn or observe more of Inaho (and possibly his sister and friends).

Just a thought.
it would be boring
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Old 2014-09-10, 11:13   Link #1912
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I would prefer if Gen Urobuchi came back to write this.
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Old 2014-09-10, 11:13   Link #1913
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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
it would be boring
I guess. Who knows, he may even be like this in his head:

"What! This girl me threw into the ground! She ain't normal." Episode 2, I think.

Or, like that one fanart of Inaho about Asseylum-chan.

Spoiler for Asseylum-chan:
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Old 2014-09-10, 11:20   Link #1914
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I would prefer if Gen Urobuchi came back to write this.
I would have agreed with you except that would cut into his time on Gaim which is a big fragging NO for me. (Seriously, those crossovers in Gaim? Some time right in the middle of an epic cliffhanger)

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I guess. Who knows, he may even be like this in his head:

"What! This girl threw into the ground! She ain't normal." Episode 2, I think.

Or, like that one fanart of Inaho about Asseylum-chan.

Spoiler for Asseylum-chan:
Yeah, I get the feeling that Asseylum means more to Inaho than just the Martian Princess.

Hell, his "It's a war" line sounds like he's trying to convince himself.
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Old 2014-09-10, 11:23   Link #1915
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I would have agreed with you except that would cut into his time on Gaim which is a big fragging NO for me. (Seriously, those crossovers in Gaim? Some time right in the middle of an epic cliffhanger)
From what I heard of the initial draft he made, it seems that everything was better than the mess it's now specially characters like Inaho and Rayet. No wonder he quickly said this version of Inaho has nothing to do with him, washing his hands on the result. I wish the third Archivez book was scanned so I would be certain of the credibility of the supposed draft he wrote.

I'm not a die hard lover of his writing, but the show has been very mediocre at best with clumsy characterization and pacing issues.
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Old 2014-09-10, 11:27   Link #1916
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First off you don't actually rebuttle any of my points and only say mainly one thing which I don't really agree with. "Inaho is good at everything" and straight up no, this is not true, hes just a hard worker, smart, and takes things seriously. It just appears that way because the writter doesn't give his supporting cast more moments over Inaho. There is only one character that sorta has some value and thats the Captian, she at least makes some sound decisions, outside of not assisting Inaho with the CPR that was just dumb. Actually can we rewrite that whole scene all together....

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Yes, but that was a different time, and back then children didn't military training, but now they do. As time changes so does the definition of normality.
Agreed, but my issue is when "We" as the audenice refer to them as normal, when we do that we place a quantified comparison on what we as the audiance precieve is normal. Which to us a normal high school experience is not what a normal high school experience in A/Z is right now. So when we call them normal high school students its incorrect.

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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
I don't think its the problem of the other cast needed to make Inaho shine less, its the problem that none of them should have been written that way in the first place.
Thats exactly what it means when the other supporting cast needs to make Inaho shine less. If they were written the right way we wouldn't be discussing this because they would be making Inaho shine less. You are only supporting my argument with this...

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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Inaho should not have been written to be great at everything and the others especially the adult characters who have more experience and training than Inaho, shouldn't have been written to be so incompetent. Its sad but outside of battles they seem there to make Inaho's side seem more interesting, and it seems as though they overcompensated for that by making Inaho great at everything.
What more experience did the adults have over the children? The only experience they had over the children were military procedures. Kats, Martians floating castles, all that shit is new for every Terran after Heaven's fall. Hell Lt. Marito said it best we are training these kids to fail because no one understand just how powerful these martians are. Everyone went into this war blind. And everyone started their Kat training when Kats were released in that 15 year time frame. And if anything I know about learning and education is its done earlier in your life because a younger brain learns faster and retains more information than someone in their older years. It would only be logical that the students would pick up the skills faster than adluts learning the same thing...

Inaho wasn't written to be a great at everything character. Inaho was written to be a compentent student who takes the time to learn and further his education. Thats what makes him different than every other Terran character that we have been presented with. This doesn't make him good at everything, it just gives the allusion that he is, because he was written to care about the training he recieved (while his friends probably goofed off). Inaho has made many countless errors and gotten lucky on many occassions. He's missed shots and was saved by slaine (obviously hes not a master marksman), acted rashly first vlad fight and been saved by the other Terran forces arriving just in time. Relies on other people to help execute his plans. When he succeeds he does so with ample time to evalutate the situation and come up with a strategy. The Femieanne fight was taken place over an entire night into morning, Vald second fight he had time to process the mechs capabilities from their first encounter, Trillam's fight he had a whole day to test and devise an approach. Its not like he gets in a mech and instantly god modes the martians. He evalutes and studies and thats what makes him who he is. (If anything you should worry about that happening to Slaine if they just make him get this Martian Kat and beat Sauz with some super awesome kat move)

The problem is none of the other supporting cast was given a trait that makes them unique, they don't shine at lot and in turn it also puts the burned on Inaho to look like hes doing all the work. However calling the kid great at everything isn't true. (I feel like i've repeated this countless times, sorry in advance ) As for Inaho's back story, well I just feel like Slaine was the focus for this first season, I can almost guarentee Inaho will have character depth next season and will learn just who he is and what made him. Just because we haven't gotten that yet is no reason to bash the kid yet. Now when this series finishes if they don't ever do it, well then I'd really like to have a talk with the writters.

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Originally Posted by wisteria233 View Post
Well yes, but again Inaho's skill set and knowledge are shown to be much higher, than his classmates, but no reason is ever to given as to why that is. Can a person realize through general training that their strength is in a certain area, yes, but that is serves as proof to that being their strength it doesn't prove that received any specialized training, to further develop that strength. I have no intention of really debating this because the writing in this series is questionable enough as is.
There is reason, watch the show and read my previous messages, I don't see why everything has to be so blaintly spelled out for everyone, why can't there be a little fun in noticing the small details that make a character? 70% of his screen time is with his tablet reading and studying. He puts in the effort, where as everyone else resorts to just being a soldier and poorly written.

As for your genralized training that students get according to you, you've yet really provided me with evidence that supports there being just generial training. I've given you context exactly from the show that shows they do more than get in a mech shoot some bullets and take a standardized military procedures class. They have given names to specialized classes, they've shown traits of knowldge in multiple areas of fields of study for it to be generalized and honestly I'm just going to say you are down right wrong until you can provide counter context to my text. If anything the only thing we dont see is their skills sets from what we consider normal high school classes outside of Inaho's ability to understand chemistry and physics (and home ec, gotta cook those eggs!). I honestly beg to question if they actually had what we consider normal classes at their school. Oh wait they had histroy! Forgot they talked about that class, but that seemed to only focus on Martian interaction and culture and heavens gate, seems like thats a class for learning about the enemy...
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Old 2014-09-10, 11:29   Link #1917
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From what I heard of the initial draft he made, it seems that everything was better than the mess it's now specially characters like Inaho and Rayet. No wonder he quickly said this version of Inaho has nothing to do with him, washing his hands on the result. I wish the third Archivez book was scanned so I would be certain of the credibility of the supposed draft he wrote.

I'm not a die hard lover of his writing, but the show has been very mediocre at best with clumsy characterization and pacing issues.
Knowing Urobuchi, his version of Inaho would have probably been a cynical pessimist in contrast with Slaine naive optimist.
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Old 2014-09-10, 11:32   Link #1918
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Knowing Urobuchi, his version of Inaho would have probably been a cynical pessimist in contrast with Slaine naive optimist.
I can't comment on personality, but I only heard he's not an emotionally calm perfect genius who saves the day. That's completely different to this version. Whether it's true or just some misread, I can't affirm it until I read the draft myself. But if it's true, it's pretty different from the result, yeah? So yeah, no wonder he said he had no attachment to that character if he's nothing like he conceived him.

Rayet, iirc, was part of the terrorist group and participated in the assassination plan. She was a more sinister character who had a role and presence since the first episode.

About Slaine, all I know is that he less in for the princess and more wishing for things to change in Mars-Earth because of the state of tension between the planets. He's got more mixed feelings about all (Cruhteo was way more abusive and despicable in the draft, while Saazbaum was more noble as contrast). The Cruhtheo and Slaine thing seem to be truth because I found a couple of floating pages about it. Cruhteo seems to hate Slaine's father for some reason too.
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Old 2014-09-10, 11:35   Link #1919
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First off you don't actually rebuttle any of my points and only say mainly one thing which I don't really agree with. "Inaho is good at everything" and straight up no, this is not true, hes just a hard worker, smart, and takes things seriously. It just appears that way because the writter doesn't give his supporting cast more moments over Inaho. There is only one character that sorta has some value and thats the Captian, she at least makes some sound decisions, outside of not assisting Inaho with the CPR that was just dumb. Actually can we rewrite that whole scene all together....



Agreed, but my issue is when "We" as the audenice refer to them as normal, when we do that we place a quantified comparison on what we as the audiance precieve is normal. Which to us a normal high school experience is not what a normal high school experience in A/Z is right now. So when we call them normal high school students its incorrect.



Thats exactly what it means when the other supporting cast needs to make Inaho shine less. If they were written the right way we wouldn't be discussing this because they would be making Inaho shine less. You are only supporting my argument with this...



What more experience did the adults have over the children? The only experience they had over the children were military procedures. Kats, Martians floating castles, all that shit is new for every Terran after Heaven's fall. Hell Lt. Marito said it best we are training these kids to fail because no one understand just how powerful these martians are. Everyone went into this war blind. And everyone started their Kat training when Kats were released in that 15 year time frame. And if anything I know about learning and education is its done earlier in your life because a younger brain learns faster and retains more information than someone in their older years. It would only be logical that the students would pick up the skills faster than adluts learning the same thing...

Inaho wasn't written to be a great at everything character. Inaho was written to be a compentent student who takes the time to learn and further his education. Thats what makes him different than every other Terran character that we have been presented with. This doesn't make him good at everything, it just gives the allusion that he is, because he was written to care about the training he recieved (while his friends probably goofed off). Inaho has made many countless errors and gotten lucky on many occassions. He's missed shots and was saved by slaine (obviously hes not a master marksman), acted rashly first vlad fight and been saved by the other Terran forces arriving just in time. Relies on other people to help execute his plans. When he succeeds he does so with ample time to evalutate the situation and come up with a strategy. The Femieanne fight was taken place over an entire night into morning, Vald second fight he had time to process the mechs capabilities from their first encounter, Trillam's fight he had a whole day to test and devise an approach. Its not like he gets in a mech and instantly god modes the martians. He evalutes and studies and thats what makes him who he is. (If anything you should worry about that happening to Slaine if they just make him get this Martian Kat and beat Sauz with some super awesome kat move)

The problem is none of the other supporting cast was given a trait that makes them unique, they don't shine at lot and in turn it also puts the burned on Inaho to look like hes doing all the work. However calling the kid great at everything isn't true. (I feel like i've repeated this countless times, sorry in advance ) As for Inaho's back story, well I just feel like Slaine was the focus for this first season, I can almost guarentee Inaho will have character depth next season and will learn just who he is and what made him. Just because we haven't gotten that yet is no reason to bash the kid yet. Now when this series finishes if they don't ever do it, well then I'd really like to have a talk with the writters.



There is reason, watch the show and read my previous messages, I don't see why everything has to be so blaintly spelled out for everyone, why can't there be a little fun in noticing the small details that make a character? 70% of his screen time is with his tablet reading and studying. He puts in the effort, where as everyone else resorts to just being a soldier and poorly written.

As for your genralized training that students get according to you, you've yet really provided me with evidence that supports there being just generial training. I've given you context exactly from the show that shows they do more than get in a mech shoot some bullets and take a standardized military procedures class. They have given names to specialized classes, they've shown traits of knowldge in multiple areas of fields of study for it to be generalized and honestly I'm just going to say you are down right wrong until you can provide counter context to my text. If anything the only thing we dont see is their skills sets from what we consider normal high school classes outside of Inaho's ability to understand chemistry and physics (and home ec, gotta cook those eggs!). I honestly beg to question if they actually had what we consider normal classes at their school. Oh wait they had histroy! Forgot they talked about that class, but that seemed to only focus on Martian interaction and culture and heavens gate, seems like thats a class for learning about the enemy...
I'm not rebutting your arguments because I mostly agree with you, or I don't want to get into it.

Also about the generalized training the evidence is there from episode 1, if you can't see it for yourself then you're not paying attention. However, if you want to say that they have anymore training beyond that, then the burden of proof is on you, since the characters made no mention of it, claiming that a character has special training would go beyond the information established and that is your duty to prove it, because you're the one whose trying to claim it.
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Old 2014-09-10, 11:39   Link #1920
Lhklan
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I can't comment on personality, but I only heard he's not an emotionally calm perfect genius who saves the day. That's completely different to this version. Whether it's true or just some misread, I can't affirm it until I read the draft myself. But if it's true, it's pretty different from the result, yeah? So yeah, no wonder he said he had no attachment to that character if he's nothing like he conceived him.

Rayet, iirc, was part of the terrorist group and participated in the assassination plan. She was a more sinister character who had a role and presence since the first episode.
I would like to point out that Urobuchi rather loves the "winning using mundane methods" so Inaho's strategy in ep 3 - the one he's still involved, from what I remember - might not be that far from what he planned. And his protag might be calm in battle too, but I think he'll be more expressive off the battlefield.

As for Rayet, well I don't know. Though I sincerely hope his plan didn't include a Mitsuzane for Aldnoah Zero. (which, in hindsight is probably impossible considering that the theme is "Lies")
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