News Stories

[Anh_Minh]

Originally Posted by Frenchie

Even if you talk about 'reward', they were children. Their parent's aren't the ones getting this 'reward', they were the ones committing the crime.

So? It's still giving an incentive to do something illegal. Again, a stolen car doesn't stop being stolen just because the thief gives it away.

[yezhanquan]

I think Vexx had it nailed for me. If the child has been around for some time, uprooting him/her is indeed not a very smart move.

[Frenchie]

It seems we're on different wavelengths, I'll echo Jinto here and say that we disagree on the basis of illegality vs moral grounds. While they are in an illegal situation, I do not believe it is moral to leave them in that situation or to punish them for this situation they're in when they aren't the perpetrators.

[ganbaru]

Videotaped re-enactment of husband's alleged murder airs in Iran
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/news/...rticle1833998/
What result are trying to obtain ?

[Nosauz]

I'm sorry the more and more we talk about this the more and more it feels like a civil rights argument gone bad. Should we blame children for the "faults" of their parents? Does that mean all mixed race children deserve to be enslaved liked their parents? Because that was once illegal? Does that mean children of gay couples biological or adopted, don't deserve the rights that other families have because their parents cannot be legally married, thus they cannot have two legal guardians? Punish the children all you want, you just come off as a callow insensitive group of people unable to see the value of go getter's are which these kids are. Often working hard to try to conform to the American life style. This really isn't the zero-sum game that most of you preach it to be and if we took legality into question shouldn't the children of DUI be jailed to? That shit is illegal, against the law? How about if an adult puffs a blunt, the DEA should bust down the door and shoot the child for violating federal law? There's a difference between those who can affect change on their lives and those that must make do with the circumstances provided. Clearly children fall into the latter category.

Let's not do the disservice to morality by equating it with legality. Pretty much everything that is wrong with this Nation or was wrong with this Nation was legal at one point, from Slavery to Racism to Prohibition.

[yezhanquan]

When something legal is not moral, it's called tyranny.
When something moral is not legal, it's called tragedy.

[ChainLegacy]

Holder: black farmer and Indian settlements have safeguards against fraud

Recently signed by Obama, these settlements are said to remedy discrimination against black farmers over loans from the past two decades. But the problem is, it seems like just about any black person who has had work in the farming industry can get settlement money, even if they didn't apply for a loan. I'm all for paying the farmers that applied... but as it stands this seems just as bad as the discrimination it tries to solve, since simply being black and working in farming can get you money, even if you weren't discriminated against.

[iLney]

@Frenchie:
Punished? How? Compared to what their life could've been if they never left Mexico, the fact that they are here, protest and wave the Mexican flag is itself a reward.

[Urzu 7]

Originally Posted by Frenchie

You don't understand. The legislation is all about making those boys and girls that crossed the border below 16 yo legal immigrants. so they CAN pursue and become legal citizens/green card holders, in line with everybody else.

What justinstrife is saying is that these kids shouldn't be given the right and should be deported because of their parents' irresponsible actions.

I strongly disagree.

Oh, I see.

I'd have to look into the issue more to form an opinion on this. It is hard to say which side of the argument I'd take from just knowing a little bit of the issue.

I can understand how you disagree, though. For adults, it is different, but I can understand one wanting to be fairer to children (or technically, those that crossed the border before the age of 16).

Like I said, though, I don't know which side of the issue I'm on yet. I'd have to study the issue some bit.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by iLney

@Frenchie:
Punished? How? Compared to what their life could've been if they never left Mexico, the fact that they are here, protest and wave the Mexican flag is itself a reward.

that is something someone needs to explain to me. Why are Mexicans who are in the US illegally protesting the US policy on illegal immigrants waving the Mexican flag? They want to be US citizens but are waving the Mexican flag.

[ChainLegacy]

Ethnic solidarity. But I agree it is kind of a counterproductive thing, since the flag first and foremost represents the nation rather than the ethnicity.

[Vexx]

I don't know... why do I put up a Japanese flag or an Irish flag? Because its a symbol of heritage in my household?

[Ithekro]

Wait a minute? How is someone under the age of 16 going to have graduated from High School or serve in the military? Neither of those things can be done until the age of 17 or 18 (exception for genius level students who can manage to skip several grades on the high school part).

Why is this even being suggested anyway? I've run into a fair share of legal immigrants and people here on foreign exchange. They passed through the hoops needed to go to school here, even those under the age of 16.

And "Viva La Raza" is getting out of hand in California. It is one thing to come to this country and adapt to it. It is another thing to come to this country and recreate it into a colony of your home country. The amount of Spanish used in the state is getting higher and hgher all the time. The numbers of areas being assimulated in reverse...those becoming more like a colony of Mexico...is increasing. Spreading farther north each few years. It is becoming almost a war of cultures here. And the older American based one is losing. It is being out populated and displaced.

This seems to be happening across the entire Western half of the United States. Some people would argue this happened in the eastern part in the 19th century, but that is not the case. Immigrants from Europe took it upon themselves to adapt to the America culture. They were proud to do so even.

If you want a displacement example...any European nation vs the Native Americans. Another slightly different and relative example, the Mexican-American War. After Mexico lost the war, they signed away 50% of their land to the United States. This was land the United States was attempting to pay for before the war and still paid the Mexican Governement for following the war. That land held about 1% of the Mexican population. Now, 150 years later, the population that wasn't there at the time is moving in and displacing the American populations...even some of those families that where here before the war are getting displaced by the influx of legal and illegal immigration from south of the border.

Why is this an issue? Because it is getting out of hand. While it is usually considered just the talk of rebellious youth, the call "Viva La Raza" has been used to suggest the retaking of the lost Mexican territory from the war ending in 1848.

[james0246]

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

that is something someone needs to explain to me. Why are Mexicans who are in the US illegally protesting the US policy on illegal immigrants waving the Mexican flag? They want to be US citizens but are waving the Mexican flag.

For the same reason members of the former Confederate states wave their Confederate flag, talk about their great Confederate history, and then lecture others on American values...

j/k

Honestly, whether they are legal or illegal is more important than if they wish to reflect their heritage.

[SaintessHeart]

Originally Posted by james0246

For the same reason members of the former Confederate states wave their Confederate flag, talk about their great Confederate history, and then lecture others on American values...

j/k

Honestly, whether they are legal or illegal is more important than if they wish to reflect their heritage.

Come to think of it, although what they are doing is hypocritical and disrespectful to the American citizens in nature, they were lured by the tales of the American Dream of financial, emotional and personal freedom.

Now US is in dire states (pun unintended), they are campaigning for their personal freedom, so as to get something out of their tedious crossing of the border. It is a pretty sad cycle borne out of corporatist exploitation and propaganda.

[Xellos-_^]

Originally Posted by Vexx

I don't know... why do I put up a Japanese flag or an Irish flag? Because its a symbol of heritage in my household?

Vexx, i am Chinese and you won't see me protesting the US immigration policy waving a Chinese flag demanding the US government grant amnesty to Illegal Chinese Immigrants. Actually you would be very hard press to find any illegal Chinese immigrants protesting the US policy while waving the Chinese flag.

[Frenchie]

Originally Posted by Ithekro

Wait a minute? How is someone under the age of 16 going to have graduated from High School or serve in the military? Neither of those things can be done until the age of 17 or 18 (exception for genius level students who can manage to skip several grades on the high school part).

Jesus Christ.

They were below 16 -when- they crossed the border. To qualify for the requirements, they must have been in the US for at least 5 years. Does it compute?

Why is this even being suggested anyway? I've run into a fair share of legal immigrants and people here on foreign exchange. They passed through the hoops needed to go to school here, even those under the age of 16.

Because some parents do the right thing and others don't. Their children have nothing to do with those decisions and shouldn't be held accountable.

This seems to be happening across the entire Western half of the United States. Some people would argue this happened in the eastern part in the 19th century, but that is not the case. Immigrants from Europe took it upon themselves to adapt to the America culture. They were proud to do so even.

Enlighten me, what is American culture? I was under the impression that American culture was essentially a European derivative. You know, the founding fathers being English and all that.

[flying ^]

Originally Posted by iLney

@Frenchie:
Punished? How? Compared to what their life could've been if they never left Mexico, the fact that they are here, protest and wave the Mexican flag is itself a reward.

Originally Posted by Xellos-_^

that is something someone needs to explain to me. Why are Mexicans who are in the US illegally protesting the US policy on illegal immigrants waving the Mexican flag? They want to be US citizens but are waving the Mexican flag.

downtown Los Angeles circa 2006-2007, amnesty rally

initially, those who went to rally in 2006 waved their mex flags and extremist signs and banners (advocating USA-undermining concepts of Reconquista and Aztlan etc) but that stunt was such a PR disaster that it's not funny. In 2007 Organizers opf that rally instructed people to fly USA flag and tone down extremist signs/banners.

-----

and here are some stunts the pro-amnesty group pulled that almost pushed some americans to breaking point

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AIB_XGRm6UQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qnz-5nSkMXM (Salute to army vet)

[Washu-Chan]

[Jinto]

Wow, this bearded guy just showed how little he is without his extreme nationalist pride for his country - having not enough selfesteem and breaking down emotionally over what? - one flag flying above another. *thinks* Go go go Mr. Self-righteous make yourself an ass.

edit:

I am not saying that some of the protesters are any better though. ^^'