Code Geass R2 - Episode 21 Discussion / Poll

[KennethJ]

Spoiler for Code Geass R2 Ep 21:

What i don't get is when VV murdered Marianne how she was dark and alone with 2 guards in one scene then in the next Nunnally is magically under her. I know Charles put the geass on Nunnally but that had to have been done AFTER the assassination since VV did it without Charles knowing

[Crusader]

This Episode left a strange taste in my mouth. I suppose i was expecting something different from charles. This episode really felt like a totally different series. I just threw all my speculation out of the window.

[tbl]

The only reason why Schniezel still remains a such a huge threat is because people keep telling stuff. Well, then again he defeated the Black Knights by telling them stuff.

And imagine how dangerous would a genre savvy character be. That power would beat any geass.

[snarf2691]

Originally Posted by mandarb916

my my aren't we a little touchy.

Lelouch not batting an eye when he was told Nunnally was found, etc.

i think they meant when they found her at the beginning of the season, with nunally becoming governor of japan and all.

[miroku2192]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

I'm sorry, but the fact people didn't enjoy the episode like you did doesn't mean they didn't understood or felt it was too much to handle.


As for me, I can say Episode 21 basically ruined both seasons in mere 20 minutes. Why is it?


What about Suzaku barging in the fray while Lelouch seems to understand his point here? They skipped a lot of things and dragged also meaningless points... Let's also add the fact that they again used a time skip instead of settle things between Suzaku and Lelouch.

Finally, we have got schneizel having fun on his side as well...

I honestly cannot see that as "good writing" at all: they abused their ability to surprise the watchers, and broke their own scope of the stories. R2 suffered a lot of its pace and themes issues but episode 21 was the pinnacle.
They piled up too much twists to the point it just disjointed the story into... "before" and "now".
Basically we have "before R2 episode 21" and "after". Certainly great in continuity... not.

i am hoping that they would (in future episodes) explain what happens in the time skip. I understand why they put the skip, so they can throw out the him walking up to the throne to baffle us one last time (them pairing up)/make it a "cool" cliffhanger...it's understandable why they did that.

all writing has flaws, i thought code geass did quite well with everything though in the long run even though some episodes people might consider rushed, i don't really mind it, i can justp lay the whole series in slow-mo to my liking, what i like about code geass is the story, maybe not so much execution wise, but it was still good nonetheless (let's just see how the last 4 episodes end the series)

[Sprite_Coke]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

I'm sorry, but the fact people didn't enjoy the episode like you did doesn't mean they didn't understood or felt it was too much to handle.


As for me, I can say Episode 21 basically ruined both seasons in mere 20 minutes. Why is it?

Basically, the whole portrayal of Charles was absolutely deceiving into irrational proportions. Pretty much like what several people said, Charles was a ruthless emperor that used Darwin's theory to its full extent to the point he was the direct cause of many miseries. Yet, the scripters make him look like a good guy?
That is nonsense. The most ridiculous point is actually how they show him as a "caring father"... sure : why would he order rolo to kill lelouch should he recover his memories of being zero?

Good point

Originally Posted by Klashikari

What is even more ridiculous is the "KEIKAKU DORII" effect in the end. Charles and Marianne planning lelouch in that stuff? This is basically nonsense as well. How would they know he would be able to contact CC? How would they know he would want such revenge and being so successful? Lelouch had a lot of sheer luck and could die in many fashion. Since geass is very "customized" to the user, how would they expect him to have such convenient power?

About that, in the very first episode, in the very first cut scene of Lelouch and Suzaku as children, we see C.C. watching them from behind. So, even back then, it was inevitable that they would meet.

[SoldierOfDarkness]

Originally Posted by KennethJ

Spoiler for Code Geass R2 Ep 21:

What i don't get is when VV murdered Marianne how she was dark and alone with 2 guards in one scene then in the next Nunnally is magically under her. I know Charles put the geass on Nunnally but that had to have been done AFTER the assassination since VV did it without Charles knowing

DIdn't you see the episode?

VV "Yea, begin the cover-up, we'll make it look like a terrorists attack"

That's when they started firing bullets through the windows and such.

[Ramong]

Now that was one heck of a great episode!
But if I HAD to say something I did not like about it, it would be that I found it strange that both Lelouch and Suzaku was wearing that outfit when Lelouch revealed himself.

Now I am just wondering if Kallen and meybe Gino is gonna join Lelouch and Suzaku or fight them (as I think they will).

- Ramong

[miroku2192]

my goodness, i've said it plenty of times now, and people still seem to ignore it,

NUNALLY IS DEAD
HE IS REFERRING TO WHEN SHE BECAME GOVERNOR

END OF FRIGGING STORY KTHXBAI

[Sprite_Coke]

Originally Posted by KennethJ

Spoiler for Code Geass R2 Ep 21:

What i don't get is when VV murdered Marianne how she was dark and alone with 2 guards in one scene then in the next Nunnally is magically under her. I know Charles put the geass on Nunnally but that had to have been done AFTER the assassination since VV did it without Charles knowing

That was a staged assassination. Maybe Charles even Geassed everyone to keep that in their memories.

[lightbringer]

Originally Posted by miroku2192

even geassing the people in front of him to acknowledge him was kinda bad...well he can always cancel it after he makes the whole world understand his view, of course no one would acknowledge him if he just pounced out haha

The way I see it, it's just for that one act and thus not very intrusive. By the time they recover, he will already be accepted Emperor and there's little they can do about it except plot against him. Lelouch better move fast

About the assassination, it seems that what happened was that V.V. crippled Nunnally and planted her under Marianne. Later on, Charles rewrote Nunnally's and Anya's memories to match the staged event.

[brandon279]

i watched this episode for 2 times, i understood somethings, and i didnt understand some other things.


what i dont understand is:

1) why did Nunnaly have to lose her eyesight and be crippled ? (while she didnt witness V.V, she was not with Marriane at night).

2) why did Charles change the memories of Nunnaly, what will he gain by that?! (plus were not lelouch memories get changed too?! Or how does he remember his mother's assassination occur at daylight ?! )

3) what did V.V mean by "cover up"? (how would he put Marrians dead body over Nunnely and still think of it as a cover up ?)

4) what is the end result of charles schemes?, would all humans shar the same consciousness , same mind ? the dead and the alive ? then why did he need to preserve Marriane body, since the did will be there, (just like when he spoke with clovis in S1)

5) Bismark believed that there would be a world to be ruled by schnizel, how is that ? (would not all humans be merged into one consciousness, then what is the need of schnizel) .

6) who was the strongest opponent in this episode ?(suzaka should have fought him according to spoilers)(dont tell me that suzaka is strongest opponent against suzaka!!)

7) why did Charles take V.V code, (the ragnarok didnt need charles to personally in control of any code, he needed a code, V.V agreed on the plan, then why did he take it)

8) how would they lure C.C by occupying japan, C.C could just walk away, actually if kallen didnt steal her(thinking of her as a gas capsule) kallen wouldnt be involved in this seris, then how can they lure her, even if they capture her, they cant force her to agree with their plan, then what is the use of luring her ? (unless they grant her wish) (but if thats right, then why would C.C escape from the beginning ?!, wouldnt she just gave her life for V.V OR latter to Charles) and in the end charles started the Ragnarok without her approval, then why the bother ?!!


too much things needed answering, but they just hurried the episode.



wow, Suzaka betrayed Schnizel !!
he betrayed them all, his father, his country, zero(lelouch), the emperor, and Shnizel.


well, the bad part is over, all what remains is normal fight between 2 princes to set the next emperor.

the only mystery is: C.C fate.

[Dream_Traveller]

Originally Posted by SoldierOfDarkness

DIdn't you see the episode?

VV "Yea, begin the cover-up, we'll make it look like a terrorists attack"

That's when they started firing bullets through the windows and such.

Not to mention Nunnally was purposefully shot in the legs and Geassed by Charles, I believe, into perceiving the assassination as something entirely different.

[bbduece]

Originally Posted by Klashikari

I'm sorry, but the fact people didn't enjoy the episode like you did doesn't mean they didn't understood or felt it was too much to handle.


As for me, I can say Episode 21 basically ruined both seasons in mere 20 minutes. Why is it?

Basically, the whole portrayal of Charles was absolutely deceiving into irrational proportions. Pretty much like what several people said, Charles was a ruthless emperor that used Darwin's theory to its full extent to the point he was the direct cause of many miseries. Yet, the scripters make him look like a good guy?
That is nonsense. The most ridiculous point is actually how they show him as a "caring father"... sure : why would he order rolo to kill lelouch should he recover his memories of being zero?

What is even more ridiculous is the "KEIKAKU DORII" effect in the end. Charles and Marianne planning lelouch in that stuff? This is basically nonsense as well. How would they know he would be able to contact CC? How would they know he would want such revenge and being so successful? Lelouch had a lot of sheer luck and could die in many fashion. Since geass is very "customized" to the user, how would they expect him to have such convenient power?
The whole deal with code geass is that its premises is conflicting with its real background which is the biggest issue here.

Basically we have 2 nutcases characters who wish to end the world and turn it into a soup with the dead and whatever. AND they wanted to protect their children.
The good part of this episode was how Lelouch rightfully demonstrated that both parents were just silly.

Now, let's go further shall we? We have the world of C that is under the effect of geass, which was considered as god...
Okay, so the power of the kings, which was shown as able to have an effect of human brain... suddenly was able to enslave a god. And now, the biggest fun is that jupiter is no longer in available and whatnot...

And the most interesting part: the execution. Not only everything was poured in not even half the episode, but the characters were simply like stakes. Charles knew what Lelouch was trying to do, yet he is leaving him using all of his speech about whatever he could do etc?
What about Suzaku barging in the fray while Lelouch seems to understand his point here? They skipped a lot of things and dragged also meaningless points... Let's also add the fact that they again used a time skip instead of settle things between Suzaku and Lelouch.

Finally, we have got schneizel having fun on his side as well...

I honestly cannot see that as "good writing" at all: they abused their ability to surprise the watchers, and broke their own scope of the stories. R2 suffered a lot of its pace and themes issues but episode 21 was the pinnacle.
They piled up too much twists to the point it just disjointed the story into... "before" and "now".
Basically we have "before R2 episode 21" and "after". Certainly great in continuity... not.

I agree. I the script here is really flawed. I still enjoy the ending though.

[miroku2192]

Originally Posted by lightbringer

The way I see it, it's just for that one act and thus not very intrusive. By the time they recover, he will already be accepted Emperor and there's little they can do about it except plot against him. Lelouch better move fast

i know, but the whole thought of doing that after he just defended against the very act of forcing things upon people pissed me off...

sure he can cancel it, and yeah it's understandable to a certain degree, but it just felt...weird, would've been nicer if he could get the whole world to see his point without having him use his geass, but thats asking too much since people will just view him as a kid, plus there are too many people there who want to kill him haha

[Sprite_Coke]

Originally Posted by Ramong

Now that was one heck of a great episode!
But if I HAD to say something I did not like about it, it would be that I found it strange that both Lelouch and Suzaku was wearing that outfit when Lelouch revealed himself.

Now I am just wondering if Kallen and meybe Gino is gonna join Lelouch and Suzaku or fight them (as I think they will).

- Ramong

I think it's fitting that the Black King and the Black Knight are wearing black costumes.
Did you not see Gino's face when he said his only line "Lelouch"?

[Ramong]

Originally Posted by brandon279

i watched this episode for 2 times, i understood somethings, and i didnt understand some other things.


what i dont understand is:

1) why did Nunnaly have to lose her eyesight and be crippled ? (while she didnt witness V.V, she was not with Marriane at night).

2) why did Charles change the memories of Nunnaly, what will he gain by that?! (plus were not lelouch memories get changed too?! Or how does he remember his mother's assassination occur at daylight ?! )

Charles changed Nunnalys memories to keep her safe.. If she was alive and could remember what happened Charles was afraid that V.V might decide to kill Nunnaly. But when Charles made her forget everything and made her fake the blindness he fooled V.V to think that she wasn't a threat. Charles did explain this

[Dream_Traveller]

Yeah, Gino certainly isn't thinking of joining Lelouch any time soon.

[bbduece]

Originally Posted by Ramong

Charles changed Nunnalys memories to keep her safe.. If she was alive and could remember what happened Charles was afraid that V.V might decide to kill Nunnaly. But when Charles made her forget everything and made her fake the blindness he fooled V.V to think that she wasn't a threat. Charles did explain this

Keep her save by taking away her legs and eye sight?

So the best way to keep your children save is to either phsically scarring them? or Mentally and psychologically scaring them.

[miroku2192]

here;s 1 post to frigging sum up da damn assassination, people don't seem to understand:

Step 1) v.v. - kills marianne, well almost did until she GEASSED ANYA LAST SECOND (transferred her own soul i guess into anya's body)
Step 2) V.V. sets up Nunally Under her and plans the shooting with the impression that it was a terrorist attack
Step 3) Nunally is geassed to forget about the event because she witnessed the whole thing, the whole plan to use the terrorists" to frame the actual case
Step 4) Lulu walks in on this whole plan thing, he saw the enactment, or the fake killing of the laready dead marianne