Gundam Seed/Seed Destiny General Discussion Thread

[The American Average]

Originally Posted by monster

Well, the Savior suffered one of the worst attacks Kira ever did to a mobile suit while still keeping the pilot alive, and Athrun suffered no physical injury (not to mention the Gouf incident).

I think it's safe to say that CE mobile suits have good structural protection as far as the cockpit is concerned as long as it doesn't suffer a direct attack.

Also, keep in mind that Kira systematically disables pretty much everyone in the area other than those with additional weapons, like the Gaia.

well we can agree that CE suits are very pilot safety friendly, but i'm gonna have to call BS on the Athrun's Gouf explosion, that should have killed them but it didn't of course. Later (next episode) you see the chest on the ocean floor completely fine (even though a sword went through it) and for some reason MS parts like to float like the head of the gouf which is funny because you can see the head sinking with the chest when Shinn stabbed the Gouf then its floating next episode.

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by The American Average

well we can agree that CE suits are very pilot safety friendly, but i'm gonna have to call BS on the Athrun's Gouf explosion, that should have killed them but it didn't of course. Later (next episode) you see the chest on the ocean floor completely fine (even though a sword went through it) and for some reason MS parts like to float like the head of the gouf which is funny because you can see the head sinking with the chest when Shinn stabbed the Gouf then its floating next episode.

That was just plot armor which saved him, blegh, they could have done that part better imo

Its head was floating? I wonder if they will fix that in the Remaster lol

OK fine, SEED MS Pilot Safety is top notch

[monster]

Originally Posted by The American Average

well we can agree that CE suits are very pilot safety friendly, but i'm gonna to have to call BS on the Athrun's Gouf explosion, that should have killed them but it didn't of course.

Yeah, but if Mu can survive a Positron shot, this is nothing by comparison.

Later (next episode) you see the chest on the ocean floor completely fine (even though a sword went through it)

Are you sure it's the next episode? The one I saw is later that same episode. I think I see a stab entry, but it's too dark to be sure, and I don't even know its orientation. Either way, it does look like it's mostly intact.

One thing I've just realized is that the Gouf's cockpit is closer to the abdomen, so whereas Shinn stabbed too low in the torso at the Freedom, he stabbed too high in the torso for the Gouf, leaving the cockpits mostly intact in both cases.

and for some reason MS parts like to float like the head of the gouf which is funny because you can see the head sinking with the chest when Shinn stabbed the Gouf then its floating next episode.

What was shown sinking was one of the shoulder pad, not the head. It's probably from the right limb that was cut earlier.

[The American Average]

Originally Posted by monster

Yeah, but if Mu can survive a Positron shot, this is nothing by comparison.

Mwu shouldn't have come back from that. fans/writer just wanted Mwu back and they didn't care how. lol well whatever i like Mwu too bad he doesn't change back to Mwu till like episode 49

Are you sure it's the next episode? The one I saw is later that same episode. I think I see a stab entry, but it's too dark to be sure, and I don't even know its orientation. Either way, it does look like it's mostly intact.

Its episode 37 the same episode Athrun is shot down you can see it when Shinn and Rey are talking to Durandal but yeah from the looks of it (couldn't find a good quality picture), it did look like it was in okay condition considering it just got impaled by a huge sword.

still how did the rescue team of Orb get Athrun and Meyrin out of the bottom of the ocean, without knowing the exact location of the cockpit, making sure they didn't drowned when pulling them out/up and get far enough away so that ZAFT wouldn't see them. its not like ZAFT waited a day or two to go check on it.

One thing I've just realized is that the Gouf's cockpit is closer to the abdomen, so whereas Shinn stabbed too low in the torso at the Freedom, he stabbed too high in the torso for the Gouf, leaving the cockpits mostly intact in both cases. What was shown sinking was one of the shoulder pad, not the head. It's probably from the right limb that was cut earlier.

Goufs cockpit is right in the "belly" just like all the suits in the CE. i don't think there are any suits that are radically different in cockpit pilot location. so where you stab the enemy suit up, down, or to the side a little you should still be hitting the pilot.

if you watch the episode when the Gouf is stabbed, the sword would have quite literally been in the cockpit with Athrun and Meyrin, maybe a little to the side but they would be seeing the blade.

in the episode the head was floating all right, but still, why is a huge piece of metal floating in the water anyways? its not wood.

like Skye629 said its just plot armor.

[monster]

Originally Posted by The American Average

still how did the rescue team of Orb get Athrun and Meyrin out of the bottom of the ocean, without knowing the exact location of the cockpit, making sure they didn't drowned when pulling them out/up and get far enough away so that ZAFT wouldn't see them. its not like ZAFT waited a day or two to go check on it.

Kisaka was there and saw where it went down.

Goufs cockpit is right in the "belly" just like all the suits in the CE. i don't think there are any suits that are radically different in cockpit pilot location. so where you stab the enemy suit up, down, or to the side a little you should still be hitting the pilot.

if you watch the episode when the Gouf is stabbed, the sword would have quite literally been in the cockpit with Athrun and Meyrin, maybe a little to the side but they would be seeing the blade.

The cockpit is in the abdomen/belly, in between the two yellow stripes and below the black-colored chest, but Shinn stabbed to the side of that black-colored chest, so he stabbed above and to the side of the cockpit, not at the cockpit itself.

in the episode the head was floating all right, but still, why is a huge piece of metal floating in the water anyways? its not wood.

I don't know, why does any of it float? They just do

like Skye629 said its just plot armor.

Maybe, but the why isn't really as important as the how.

[Destined_Fate]

They never really explained HOW Kira and co. found Athrun after he was taken down on top of Athrun surviving after getting skewered by Shinn in the first place. They would have had to have done it fast considering a huge hole in his Gouf means they would have taken in water very quickly and neither were even in pilot suits.

And what was Athrun's only injury?

Bandage to face and sore body!

[Zeydra]

Given Athrun fell unconscious after piloting a mobile suit in combat fresh from that I somehow doubt it was merely a sore body under those bandages. Wounds are far more likely.

[aeriolewinters]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

They never really explained HOW Kira and co. found Athrun after he was taken down on top of Athrun surviving after getting skewered by Shinn in the first place. They would have had to have done it fast considering a huge hole in his Gouf means they would have taken in water very quickly and neither were even in pilot suits.

And what was Athrun's only injury?

Bandage to face and sore body!

Actually, Kisaka found Athrun. Then he brought him back to Orb.

[The American Average]

Originally Posted by monster

Kisaka was there and saw where it went down.

IIRC he had a tiny boat, how would he have the gear to get to the bottom of the ocean there, pull up athrun and meyrin who were not wearing any type of body protection in that most likely cold water, out of the water and in to the boat and drive off so ZAFT didn't see them all the while Shinn and Rey were close by Kisaka may have waited so they flew off but top of the line ZAFT suit should be able to see a boat. not only did Kisaka would have to have a couple of people with him to do this job and At least Athrun was very injured so they had to be very careful doing the transfer from Gouf to ship. with ZAFT recovery forces coming in how they did this without getting caught or seen is really confusing to me

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

They never really explained HOW Kira and co. found Athrun after he was taken down on top of Athrun surviving after getting skewered by Shinn in the first place. They would have had to have done it fast considering a huge hole in his Gouf means they would have taken in water very quickly and neither were even in pilot suits.

I'm going to go with Lacus magic Dust it brought them back, its not the first time.

Originally Posted by Zeydra

Given Athrun fell unconscious after piloting a mobile suit in combat fresh from that I somehow doubt it was merely a sore body under those bandages. Wounds are far more likely.

yeah Athrun was pretty beat up pretty bad but i wonder how Meyrin left with such minor injury, Athrun using his body to shield her is the only thing i can think of.

Originally Posted by aeriolewinters

Actually, Kisaka found Athrun. Then he brought him back to Orb.

i believe Kisaka was there and waiting for athrun out at sea and how Rey or Shinn didn't see the ship Kisaka was using is beyond me. after all MS should have radars Destiny and Legend are the best suits ZAFT has to offer, maybe Shinn wouldn't have noticed but Rey. Evil, see all Rey should have noticed

[Skye629]

Originally Posted by Destined_Fate

They never really explained HOW Kira and co. found Athrun after he was taken down on top of Athrun surviving after getting skewered by Shinn in the first place. They would have had to have done it fast considering a huge hole in his Gouf means they would have taken in water very quickly and neither were even in pilot suits.

And what was Athrun's only injury?

Bandage to face and sore body!

Sore body? No

The strain of piloting the IJ in the Orb battle caused his chest wounds to open up and bleed all over, as Kira found after opening his suit after re-boarding the AA after the battle. Quite different from a sore body

Granted though it should have been much worse given what happened (Athrun dead or so severely injured that he was in a coma/state of incapable of moving at all for a long time)

[monster]

Originally Posted by The American Average

IIRC he had a tiny boat, how would he have the gear to get to the bottom of the ocean there, pull up athrun and meyrin who were not wearing any type of body protection in that most likely cold water, out of the water and in to the boat and drive off so ZAFT didn't see them all the while Shinn and Rey were close by Kisaka may have waited so they flew off but top of the line ZAFT suit should be able to see a boat. not only did Kisaka would have to have a couple of people with him to do this job and At least Athrun was very injured so they had to be very careful doing the transfer from Gouf to ship. with ZAFT recovery forces coming in how they did this without getting caught or seen is really confusing to me

It's simple: this world is in a futuristic setting and Kisaka is from an island nation. If anyone knows how to quickly rescue pilots from sinking mobile suits, it'll be him and his crew. Suffice it to say that they have the technology and the expertise to rescue Athrun and Meyrin.

yeah Athrun was pretty beat up pretty bad but i wonder how Meyrin left with such minor injury, Athrun using his body to shield her is the only thing i can think of.

That's what Kira believes.

i believe Kisaka was there and waiting for athrun out at sea and how Rey or Shinn didn't see the ship Kisaka was using is beyond me. after all MS should have radars Destiny and Legend are the best suits ZAFT has to offer, maybe Shinn wouldn't have noticed but Rey. Evil, see all Rey should have noticed

They had no reason to attack fellow Alliance ships. Their job was simply to capture or destroy Athrun, and they succeded (or so they thought), and it's not like it's a secret operation that needed to be covered up.

[Aquaman OS]

Kisaka and his crew were disguised as Alliance Defectors so their presence there was not really suspicious. All they did was probably lift out the Gouf the second Destiny and Legend were out of sight, retrieve Athrun and Meyrin and toss the Gouf back in the water, then hightail it for Orb. Durandal assumed both Kira and Athrun were dead, and thus the Clyne Faction no longer had the power to oppose him so he probably wasn't that observant over monitoring the situation.

A bigger question is why Kisaka was there to begin with, since he took Athrun and left without doing anything else, and he was already there before Athrun tried to escape so it's not like he came running just to save him from that.

[monster]

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

A bigger question is why Kisaka was there to begin with, since he took Athrun and left without doing anything else, and he was already there before Athrun tried to escape so it's not like he came running just to save him from that.

ZAFT was gathering people to fight against LOGOS. Kisaka might've joined with the original intent to fight off LOGOS and undermine the Seirans' power in Orb.

[Aquaman OS]

The Cagalli faction as a whole seemed to not support the Logos hunt, on the ground that it would give Durandal even more control of the world, so I don't think Kisaka would sign on for that.

[The American Average]

Originally Posted by monster

It's simple: this world is in a futuristic setting and Kisaka is from an island nation. If anyone knows how to quickly rescue pilots from sinking mobile suits, it'll be him and his crew. Suffice it to say that they have the technology and the expertise to rescue Athrun and Meyrin.

Makes the most logical sense but we the viewer, shouldn't have to fill in the blanks like this

Originally Posted by Aquaman OS

The Cagalli faction as a whole seemed to not support the Logos hunt, on the ground that it would give Durandal even more control of the world, so I don't think Kisaka would sign on for that.

My bet that Kisaka was there as a Cagalli's spy to see what was going on in this joint operation. It was just luck that Kisaka went out and checked what went on with the Gouf vs Destiny battle.

[monster]

Originally Posted by The American Average

Makes the most logical sense but we the viewer, shouldn't have to fill in the blanks like this

At the same, the detail on how Kisaka rescued Athrun is not really central to the plot. Not every procedure/technology has to be explained.

[The American Average]

Originally Posted by monster

At the same, the detail on how Kisaka rescued Athrun is not really central to the plot. Not every procedure/technology has to be explained.

I find it rather important, how does one save someone in that kind of situation? The anime showed us on how Kira was saved in the freedom battle, Cagalli went down in the Strike Rouge got Kira wasn't a huge amount of time to show us this and why couldn't they do that for Athrun too? that whole scene was important to the plot Athrun says F-u Zaft goes to find AA, Shinn chooses Zaft becomes bad Guy due to Rey, Orb Kisaka saves Athrun takes him to AA. Big turning point in the plot and they should have shown how Athrun got out of this one. Just saying its not important is kinda a lazy, they should at least shown a scuba diver or something.

[Aquaman OS]

Didn't they show him lifting the Gouf's main body out of the water with a crane?

[JagdPanther]

Originally Posted by I Fail at Life

You talking about where you pause it for to long and it stops? Or maybe your computer isnt good enough to run it smoothly?

I find the latter part extremely unlikely.

Maybe it is the former. I don't watch them all the way through. I prefer to scan around and watch interesting parts.

[monster]

Originally Posted by The American Average

I find it rather important, how does one save someone in that kind of situation? The anime showed us on how Kira was saved in the freedom battle, Cagalli went down in the Strike Rouge got Kira wasn't a huge amount of time to show us this and why couldn't they do that for Athrun too?

I didn't say they couldn't. At least, with the Gouf, we saw Kisaka came to rescue him and Meyrin and we saw him transporting them. That's more than we got for other rescue missions in SEED and Destiny.

that whole scene was important to the plot

What's important to the plot is that we know that the torso was intact to a certain extent and that Kisaka came, rescued the two people, and had them transported. And that's what we saw.